The idea that this war is completely in the PAST and does not project to the future, completely ignores the whole context of the message of Rev. 12:17 and onward through to 19.
The "remnant" implies the last part -- and offspring or children, usually arrive on the scene later than the woman.


That said -- it's also very true that the war has been waging quite fiercely against those who didn't follow the papal lead to reject the seventh day and substitute the first in it's place --
It was waged with much persecution during the 1260 years.

Surprising we see this war even right here on this forum -- the Sabbath has always been a special target of attack by Satan, and we see it right here on an ADVENTIST forum none the less.

Why is Satan so angry against God's law and the Sabbath in particular? Because true Sabbath keeping is the climax of worship of the Creator God -- the One Who Created us (Exo. 20:11), who sanctifies us (Eze 20:12), and is a sign that we acknowledge Him as God. (Eze 20:20)

BUT NOTE -- the war is AGAINST those who 1) keep God's commandments and 2) have the faith and testimony of Jesus. (Rev. 12:17 and Rev 14:12)

Satan's strategy has always been to separate those two key anchor points. Because he knows to separate them makes the one remaining null and void in the life of the people.



The downfall of the Jewish nation was that they rejected Christ and made the law a ritual, on outward "keeping of the letter", for without Christ the law only condemns, it cannot forgive or transform the life.

The downfall of the Christian nations is that they reject God's law (especially the special day God sanctified and blessed), they want the forgiveness, but reject the power of the gospel and the Lordship of Christ and His Holy Spirit that works to write the law upon the heart of flesh in the full magnification of principles of the law, making it an inward joy and act of true worship to walk with Christ in newness of life, in the righteousness of God's commandments.


James P. turns to Romans 14 claiming all days are holy-- implying it really doesn't matter. However, Paul is linking "keeping a day" with "eating or not eating" -- this shows he is talking about setting apart certain days as FAST days, he's not talking about the Sabbath day.

HOWEVER- it's very strange that Christians will use that passage to tell those who keep the seventh-day that it doesn't matter what day one keeps. BUT WAIT --

This thread is about SUNDAY LAWS --
Don't you think it really strange that papacy is very open about pushing Sunday laws -- Protestant Sunday Alliance groups are very open about pushing Sunday laws. Statements are made by these influential leaders on the importance of Sunday, yet our anti-Adventist Sabbath friends seem to have nothing to say concerning that.

That's where the real paradox comes in --
The religious system that is emerging will JUDGE everyone as to what day they worship -- they will legislate it, they will persecute and force and claim it is for the good of society etc. etc. etc.

It does MATTER --
Is our allegiance with our Creator God who alone is our Savior?
or is our allegiance to the papal confederation that rises with a COUNTERFEIT WORSHIP system as their purposed means to save the world. (Which will bring it to utter ruin)

Firstly, Satan did not "let the woman go":

The virtuous woman, symbolizing God's pure Church was "given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness".
Furthermore, "the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.".

The Devil chased the woman (God's true Church), but "the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.".

"And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth." Revelation 12:13-16


You say:
because the Dragon "WENT TO MAKE WAR" "with the [remnant] of the woman's offspring", this means it happened in the past?

Yes it did happen in the past, and has been continuing for hundreds of years!
Do you suppose that war is an instantaneous event? Wars may begin suddenly; however, they seldom end quickly. Have you ever heard of the Hundred Years' War? Some wars last a long long time. God has had His faithful followers in every age, do you believe Satan has not been at war with them every moment of every day?


You say:
"Therefore, while the woman was in the wilderness for 1,260 days, he was wreaking havoc among the [remnant] of her offspring DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME."

I agree. Since a prophetic "day" equals a literal year, Numbers 14:34, Ezekiel 4:6, Satan was "wreaking havoc among her offspring DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME.".
That is while the Catholic Church possessed enough political power to torture and murder God's people.

Incidentally, "seed" or "offspring" are descended from their Mother. The very fact that the Dragon "went to make war with the remnant of her seed", shows that the war continued, also the word "remnent" is the part that remains. This is not a battle from the distant past, it continues. It is being fought HERE and NOW!


You say:
"SDA have reached the erroneous conclusion that Rev. 12:17, "the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the [remnant] of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", refers to them and their plight for worshiping God on Saturdays some time soon"

Since a "remnent" is going to look the same as what it came from and since the "seed" or "offspring" of a Church is other Churches ("living creatures" are to reproduce, "after their kind" Genesis 1) let us look for a Church that follows the same TEN Commandments as the Church of Christ and the Apostles.

Tell me, what other Church teaches the sacredness of ALL Ten Commandments? Most teach obedience or at least lip service to nine Commandments, but what about the only Commandment that begins with the Command to "REMEMBER"? Most churches seem to have forgotten that One! Therefore, most churches cannot be the "remnent". Of the few that do teach the sacredness of ALL Ten Commandments, how many have "the testimony of Jesus Christ" which is "the spirit of prophecy"? Revelation 19:10

Only the Seventh Day Adventist Church meets both requirements: respect for ALL Ten Commandments and possession of the Spirit of Prophesy, manifested in the writings of Ellen White.
Since you claim to be SDA (contrary to what you wrote in your profile) naturally you believe in the prophetic ministry of Ellen White, the co-founder of our Church, don't you?

Scripture clearly teaches that Satan is making war with Sabbath keeping, Holy Spirit following, Christians. The only person I see "twisting the meaning of the spirit of prophecy, i.e. The Revelation of Jesus Christ", is you!





"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17

It's strange James, you say you are an SDA member, but to quote this site's Master of Ceremonies, Daryl: "Your profile states that you are NOT a member of the SDA church."???


James Peterson said:

"It is now interesting that when they are corrected, they get hot under the collar and seek to silence those who speak the truth."


Hmm, I don't recall anyone trying to "silence" you.  In fact each of your attacks on the teachings of the Seventh Day Adventist Church has been met and answered with a resounding: "thus saith the Lord"!

What is "interesting" is the way you refer to Seventh Day Adventists in the third person, plural: 

"when THEY are corrected",
"THEY get hot under the collar".

Almost makes you sound like an outsider, doesn't it?

 This strange phraseology, along with your blatantly, anti-SDA posts, and a touch of paranoia, (guilt induced, perhaps?) NO ONE HAS TRIED TO "SILENCE" YOU, leads me to believe that your profile is correct, indeed you are NOT an SDA member!

It's also quite "interesting" that you concluded your last post with the words: "seek to silence those who speak the truth.".  

You cannot possibly be referring to yourself as one of "those who speak the truth."

On this very site, you are on record as claiming to be both an SDA member and a Non-SDA member.

One of your claims is an outright lie!

Your attitude on this site has been one of superiority, as though you are more knowledgeable about God's Word than us Scripture "twisting" Seventh Day Adventists!

Does your superior biblical knowledge tell you that Jesus does NOT lie?   

Has your thorough study of the Bible taken you to the end of Revelation yet?

"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a LIE: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Revelation 21:27



The name Peterson, has a real Catholic feel...

 There is a Father James Peterson, who is an associate pastor at St. Odilia’s in Shorewood, MN.  

Is he... a relative, perhaps?

James, I study here because it is a haven of rest for SDA. The goal here is to study why our fundamental beliefs are biblically sound - not to prove they are of Satan.

Personally, I don't think the SDA Church or the World is ready for the Sunday Law Crisis. First, we need a serious revival and reformation. Then we can muster our forces and proclaim the 3AM through practical experience. Then the World will be impressed with our love and endeared to our doctrines - the truth as it is in Jesus.

At GCSA2015, 41% voted for women's ordination, 58% against. Afterwards, as the article states, "General Conference president Ted N.C. Wilson appealed to church members to unite in the mission of the church after the vote at the 2015 General Conference Session in San Antonio, Texas." Are you an SDA Ostrich with your proverbial head in the sand concerning the reality of Adventism today? There are a spectrum of believers across the denomination, and then they are those who feel sorry for the members and wish to shine the light along their path concerning the many things of which I speak to you. But you behave like a Nazarene.

Secondly, you agreed with me that at the same time that the woman was in the wilderness, the dragon was after [the remnant] of her children DURING THE 1,260 DAYS and not after. Therefore SDA prophesy falsely when they self-righteously appropriate the verse, Rev. 12:17, to themselves. It is not good to tell lies now, is it?

By the way, the Testimony of Jesus Christ is the Book of His Revelation. And those who keep His commandments are those who love the Catholics too. Otherwise they are a fire-breathing baby dragon, salivating at the thought of a burning stake.

///

The word "study" presumes an open mind to realities with which you were previously unacquainted. It means that if the things you believe were found to be wrong, you were honest enough to admit it and willing enough to follow the truth.

But methinks thou art possessed of the spirit of Narcissus, for thou lovest thyself mightily and the look of thy visage in the still waters. Indeed, thy cave reachest to the heavens and the sound of thine own voice echoeth for thee in the still of the night.

///

James, I am willing to study the way you described elsewhere - but not here. I am not here to question whether SDA fundamental beliefs are true or false. I have studied them extensively and am convinced they are sound doctrine. There comes a point in ones journey where one is satisfied the truth is true. I cannot spend my entire life in doubt or disbelief, wondering if what I believe about the truth as it is in Jesus is true or false. It is the truth that sets me free. I am free indeed.

Are you free? Or, are you still not sure if what you believe about the truth is true of false?

First it was acknowledged that the dragon was ALREADY waging war doing the 1260 years, (indeed the dragon has been waging war against God and His commandments and people since Eden) but this war will escalate as time progresses. There was NO HINT that this war is "past" alone -- the full message is that it escalates to greater intensity in the future.

The full fury of the dragon's last desperate attempt to get people away from true worship of the Creator, into worshipping the creature, is still ahead.


And yes, the prophecy is clear -- the war is against those who KEEP GOD'S COMMANDMENTS.
The fourth commandment is clearly linguistically linked to this message.
"Worship Him Who made the heavens and the earth and the fountains of water" Rev. 14:

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy
For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Ex. 20



To warn against the power that WILL persecute, brings upon the bearers of that message intense scorn.


Sadly -- those who support the papal system that WILL PERSECUTE, and has a long history in which it did persecute with fierce torture and death, will find out too late the truth of the matter.


Yes, at present the Adventist Church has been flooded with "non believers" in the Adventist message who are working hard to prepare Adventists to accept the false system of worship.

But that does not destroy the message.
When the crises hits, thousands will give up the Sabbath, and join the papal led ecumenical worship,
--multitudes will leave.

It will be a very sad day.

Well said, dedication!

I agree that the 'Adventist Church has been flooded with "non believers"'.

"And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood." Revelation12:15

The Devil is still using this very effective attack against God's people.

Have you heard about The One Project that is presently slithering its way through our Church? Participants are encouraged and even coached to question everything about Adventism. This is because controversy in a church is "healthy"...
I have seen a few posts on site that make me think there are some One Project adherents here.

If our "friend" James is indeed an SDA member?? I wonder if he has been snared by these pseudoAdventists?