dedication wrote;

"But the ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, THE HOLY KINGDOM is not the Levitical priesthood and the only restrictions to being a member is that one must be connected with Christ, the High Priest. Cleansed by His ministry, transformed by His power, and living in newness of life by His Holy Spirit.

The ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, AND HOLY KINGDOM is comprised of all of God's redeemed, faithful, trusting, commandment keeping people."

----

And none of this changes anything with the three orders of the Priesthood! You refuse to see this I guess, but, the authority of these Priesthoods is still real and valid to this day!

The Royal Priesthood is what God offers to ALL [male and female] His true believers. Pastors can be part of that priesthood, but the Levitical priesthood is over but you refuse to see that I guess. The Levitical priesthood was only one small part of Israel and only a small part of all the males. What does the royal priesthood do today? They offer spiritual sacrifice. Read all of 1 Peter 2.

dedication wrote;

"The only true extension of the Levitical priesthood (as well as Melchisedec's priesthood) is in Christ who is our HIGH PRIEST in the heavenly sanctuary. He is the fulfillment of all those priestly types. The Levitical priesthood ended at the cross." (bold emphasis mine)

And, as always, you haven't offered any support for the end of the Levitical Priesthood! 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 declares your idea to be Biblically wrong.

It is very important to understand that all three of these all male Priesthoods are still valid to this day. The High Priest orders of Melchizedek and Aaron are fulfilled by Christ at this time in the Heavenly Sanctuary, while the priestly order is to be fulfilled by the preachers of the Gospel on the earth.

A Priesthood Before Aaron. -"Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils." The giving of tithes is an act of homage. To take tithes of people is to claim authority over them. Thus, when Samuel was telling Israel what would be their lot if they persisted in having a king, he said, among other things, "He will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants." 1 Samuel 8: 15. The tithe of the land belongs to the Lord, that with it He may sustain His servants, who are precluded from tilling the land for their own living. The whole nation of Israel, including the king; and the priests, sprung from Abraham, and looked up to him as their head; yet even he recognised Melchisedek as his superior, and signified it by paying tithes to him. Consequently the Levitical priesthood stands related to the Melchisedek priesthood only as the shadow to the sun; and, as in the figure, the sun is both before and after the shadow. The shadow passes; the sun abides. If the Jews had only known the Scriptures, which were read in their synagogues every Sabbath day, they would have known that their priests were not real priests, and thereby that the temple was not the real sanctuary of the Lord. {July 30, 1903 EJW, PTUK 485.2}

You just mean you haven't been reading what I posted -- or you refuse to accept what I posted.
as I gave considerable support for the ending of the Levitical priesthood.

First off 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 does not support your conclusion that the Levitical priesthood continues.

It points to the fact that those who served in the OT temple services were paid by the tithes and offerings of the people.
LIKEWISE (in the same way) those who preach the gospel should be paid by the gospel.

That's all that text says --
They which preach the gospel (not a new order of male priests, NO, NO ) simply "they which preach the gospel" should live by the gospel.

EGW explains the same concept:

The tithe should go to those who labor in word and doctrine, be they men or women.--Manuscript 149, 1899. {Ev 492.2}

SECOND
There is only ONE PRIEST in the New Testament -- that is Jesus Christ, our high Priest in the heavenly sanctuary.

The Royal Priesthood, Holy Nation is NOT an office, or ecclesiastical position.

I already quoted quite a few passages but here is another one explaining the "Royal Priesthood":



The ROYAL PRIESTHOOD OF BELIEVERS is NOT an ecclesiastical priesthood, it is NOT an office or a position held in a church hierarchy.

The ROYAL PRIESTHOOD is composed of those who are in Christ Jesus, sons and daughters of God, His ambassadors in the world, citizens of His kingdom.
The ROYAL PREISTHOOD has nothing to do with being "ordained" into some office.
The ROYAL PRIESTHOOD is being baptized by water, by the blood and by the Holy Spirit.


I have no idea who first brought this strange idea into Adventism that the "royal priesthood of believers" referred to pastors or any ecclesiastical order and limited itself to males.

That makes about as much sense as saying the "virgins" in Revelation 14 are all women.





The earthly Levitical priesthood ended at the cross.
Hebrews tells us so.
Galatians tells us so.
EGW tells us so.

And yes, I did give those references.

Of course the Catholic church resurrected the Levitical priesthood -- an ecclesiastical priesthood is a Roman Catholic invention. It has no business being pushed in Adventist circles.

dedication wrote;

"First off 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 does not support your conclusion that the Levitical priesthood continues. "

How often are you going to use history to override Scripture?!? I do not consider that proof of anything true.

The Bible clearly states that what the Priests of the Temple received was now to be given to the preachers of the Gospel! Is this a continuation? Or a new phase of the Priesthood? I believe it is both.

So please, spare me the long posts about nothing. History is great when properly applied, but, too often it is misapplied. And this would be such a case.

Yet, the Priesthood as it is practiced in the Orthodox Churches is horrible. What we see in the Roman Catholic and other Orthodox Priestly orders is nothing like what the Bible teaches.

But, this doesn't have anything to do with 1 Corinthians 9:13-14. What Paul is here proposing is Biblical.

JN Andrews:

That the sanctuary, priesthood, and offerings, with the accompanying blessings, would have been realized in the Mosaic dispensation, had the twelve tribes of Israel accepted the proffered boon, we will now show.
1. It was to be fulfilled while circumcision was in force. Ezekiel 44:9. But that was abolished at the first advent. Galatians 5:2; Galatians 6:12; Colossians 2:11-13.
2. It was while divorce was allowed. Ezekiel 44:22. But that is now done away. Matthew 5:31-32; Matthew 19:8-9.
3. The distinction between meats, clean and unclean, is recognized. Ezekiel 44:23; Ezekiel 44:31. But no such distinction is now recognized by the Bible. Romans 14.
4. Sacrifice, offerings, burnt offerings, and sin-offerings, of bulls and goats, were then in force. Ezekiel 46. But they are not now acceptable to God. Hebrews 10.
5. The feasts and the Jubilee were than in force. Ezekiel 45:21-25; Ezekiel 46:9; Ezekiel 46:11; Ezekiel 46:17. But they were nailed to the cross. Colossians 2.
6. The Levitical priesthood was then in force. Ezekiel 40:46; Ezekiel 44:15. But the priesthood of Melchisedec, which passeth not to another, has taken its place. Hebrews 5; Hebrews 6; Hebrews 7; Hebrews 8; Hebrews 9.
7. "The middle wall of partition" then existed, as all these ordinances prove, as well as the acknowledged distinction between "the seed of the house of Israel" and the stranger. Ezekiel 44:22; Ezekiel 47:22. But it is now broken down. Ephesians 2. But we leave the sanctuary offered to the twelve tribes, that we may follow the history of Judah and Benjamin. {1872 JNA, S23D 65.2}

SN Haskell

The Levitical order extended from the time Israel came out of Egypt until the cross; since that time we have the priesthood of Christ, of which all earthly priests were a type. Christ being a priest after the order of Melchizedek, we are now living under the Melchizedek order of the priesthood. There are many particulars given in regard to the Levitical order; and as all the Levitical priests served "unto the example and shadow of heavenly things," when we study the Levitical priesthood we are really studying the priestly work of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. {1914 SNH, CIS 79.2}

...

Only the descendants of Aaron were allowed to serve as priests. Numbers 3:10 In the type the priest who could not prove his genealogy direct from Aaron, the first high priest, was cast out of the priesthood; Ezra 2:26 so in the antitype, the Christian [male and female] who cannot prove his direct connection with Christ, the heavenly High Priest, will never become one of the "royal priesthood." 1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 20:15 {1914 SNH, CIS 80.2}

James White

It is, therefore, an established fact that the worldly sanctuary of the first covenant, and the heavenly sanctuary of the new covenant, are both embraced in the vision of the 2300 days. Seventy weeks are cut off upon the earthly sanctuary; and at their termination, the true tabernacle, with its anointing, its sacrifice, and its Minister, is introduced. And it is interesting to notice that the transfer from the tabernacle made with hands, to the true tabernacle itself, which the Lord pitched, and not man, is placed by Gabriel at the very point where the Bible testifies that the shadow of good things to come ceased, being nailed to the cross, Colossians 2:14; Colossians 2:17; where the offering of bulls and goats gave place to the great Sacrifice, Hebrews 9:11-14; Hebrews 10:1-10; Psalms 40:6-8 : Daniel 9:27; where the Levitical priesthood was superseded by that of the order of Melchisedec, Hebrews 5; Hebrews 6; Hebrews 7; Psalms 110; where the example and shadow of heavenly things was terminated by the more excellent ministry which it shadowed forth, Hebrews 8:1-6; and where the holy places which were the figures of the true, were succeeded by the true holy places in Heaven. Hebrews 9:23-24. We have seen that Gabriel did not explain the 2300 days and the sanctuary in Daniel 8. We now see that in Daniel 9 he explained both. {ND JW, BIAD 157.1}

But when Christ reigns they "neither marry nor are given in marriage, neither can they die any more for they are equal unto the angels." The first covenant with its offerings, Levitical priesthood and divorces was done away by Christ, at the cross. Luke 20:35; Colossians 2:14; Matthew 5:31-32. {September 4, 1856 UrSe, ARSH 142.18}

Walter Read

The Levitical priesthood was temporary; men could not "continue by reason of death" (Hebrews 7:23); the Melchizedek priesthood is an order that has "the power of an endless life"(Hebrews 7:16); Melchizedek was "made like unto the Son of God," and "abides a priest continually" (Hebrews 7:3). The Greek word rendered "continually" is rendered "for ever" in Hebrews 10:12; Hebrews 10:14. Today we live not under the Levitical priesthood; that is gone; it was part of what was abolished at the cross of Calvary. We live, thank God, under the Melchizedek priesthood, with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ as the great high priest. Christ the Lord as our Melchizedek in the sanctuary in heaven "continues ever" (Hebrews 7:24) ; of Him "it is witnessed that he lives" (Hebrews 7:8), and lives forevermore. {1952 WER, BSPC 190.3}

Score - Dedication 10. Alchemy 0.

History????? What history did I give to override anything in that text??????

This was my answer:

1 Cor. 9:16 points to the fact that those who served in the OT temple services were paid by the tithes and offerings of the people.
LIKEWISE (in the same way) those who preach the gospel should be paid by the gospel.

That's all that text says --
They which preach the gospel (not a new order of male priests, NO, NO ) simply "they which preach the gospel" should live by the gospel.

EGW explains the same concept:

The tithe should go to those who labor in word and doctrine, be they men or women.--Manuscript 149, 1899. {Ev 492.2}


Ah-- somewhat true but not quite.

It does not say that which the Priests received was now to be given to the preachers of the gospel --
It was NOT a material transfer policy.
It was only a principle applied.


It actually doesn't even mention tithes, (though tithes were part of it)
"Don’t you realize that those who work in the temple get their meals from the offerings brought to the temple? And those who serve at the altar get a share of the sacrificial offerings.
In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the Gospel should be supported by those who benefit from it."

So we see it was a principle applied, not necessarily a direct transfer.

Priests got to eat part of the sacrifices and the shew bread.
That was part of being a priest.

Gospel preachers on the other hand didn't eat "sacrifices" they were to be invited into homes and be supported in other ways.
Of course the tithe issue does apply as well.

But 1 Cor. 9 was not limited to men, or "ordained" elders --

So no -- this text does not support the idea of an exclusive priesthood of men operating in the NT church, as it simply refers to anyone who gives their time to sharing the gospel with others should not be left with no support.

EGW explains the same concept and definitely includes women:

QUOTE:
"The tithe should go to those who labor in word and doctrine, be they men or women.--Manuscript 149, 1899. {Ev 492.2}

"I know that the faithful women should be paid wages as it is considered proportionate to the pay received by ministers. They carry the burden of souls and should not be treated unjustly. 12MR 160 (1898)

So - NO THIS text does NOT support A CONTINUATION in a new phase of the Levitical priesthood.
It is simply applying a principle.







First of all -- it appears you are referring to a different thread which dealt with the Eucharist.
And that history definitely APPLIED and is very important to understand in light of the ecumenical plan and purpose for the unification of churches.

On this thread I have given quite a number of posts filled with EGW quotes and Bible texts.
That's what I was referring to when I spoke of "not having read" my posts when you suggested I've given no proof.

Secondly, I am truly sorry you don't want to hear what our pioneers have had to say about the extending of the levitical priesthood into the Christian era and what an Ecclesiastical priesthood really means.

And basically anyone who wants to equate pastors as priest are advocating an Ecclesiastical priesthood (a Christianized Levitical priesthood)

Adventist Pastors in the past have refused to be called "priest" for a very good reason.





What you see in the Roman Catholic priestly orders was built on the a "Christianization" of the levitical priesthood.
They claim Biblical teaching for what they do. If you would stop long enough to see the connections, you would realize much of what they do is adapted from the levitical priesthood.
You see -- the ancient priests work was largely about absolving people from their sins. Thus the Catholic priesthood takes those prerogatives upon itself as well.

It's true it is perverted, it is wrong, it usurps Christ's Priesthood and uses the gift of salvation as a tool to control the people, and it includes pagan priest ideas, but it is also very "grand" and "impressive" inspiring awe in the worshippers. It functions as a priesthood -- usurping Christ's priesthood, but it cannot save anyone from sin, because Christ is the ONLY TRUE PRIEST.

The Catholic priesthood came about in small steps. The first step was to start thinking of the pastors as priest.


There is a reason why no true Protestant pastors will allow themselves to be called "priest".



The New Testament scriptures do NOT present an ecclesiastical priesthood. There is nothing in the NT authorizing elders or leaders in the church to function as priests. They are to be ministers -- a word meaning to serve others, and to PREACH the gospel, being missionaries, witnessing, leading people to the ONE TRUE priest, who is Jesus. It was a whole different thing.

dedication wrote;

"History????? What history did I give to override anything in that text??????

This was my answer:

1 Cor. 9:16 points to the fact that those who served in the OT temple services were paid by the tithes and offerings of the people.
LIKEWISE (in the same way) those who preach the gospel should be paid by the gospel.

That's all that text says --
They which preach the gospel (not a new order of male priests, NO, NO ) simply "they which preach the gospel" should live by the gospel.

EGW explains the same concept:

The tithe should go to those who labor in word and doctrine, be they men or women.--Manuscript 149, 1899. {Ev 492.2} "

-----

You have mentioned history many times throughout these posts of yours. Including your rant on AT Jones and his history. So, your not at all innocent of the charge I made. You rely much more on history than Scripture.

As far as Ellen White's statement is concerned, I agree that women should get paid the same as men. And there isn't any reason why a woman can't get paid from the tithe if she is a "preacher of the gospel"! That doesn't in any way effect the Priesthood!

I'm just going to have to stop responding to you as well, dedication. Your confusing rants aren't worthy of all this time after a while.

Bring your Biblical support that the Priesthood doesn't exist anymore? That is what is required.

Of course I've shared history.
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. ... Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them."

I've also shared quite a lot of scripture and EGW quotes.
The history does NOT over ride scripture.
You have not given any scripture that says pastors are now a special class of NT priests -- a continuation of the Levitical priesthood.

All God's genuine followers are members of the "royal priesthood, a holy nation" seeking to bring glory and praise to God's name. The "royal priesthood" is not restricted by race, gender, or to members of the clergy, it's only restriction is that members be connected and abiding in Christ; they are God's genuine, redeemed and faithful people.

I'm sorry you think posting a study by A.T.Jones on the Eucharist thread concerning the development of the ecclesiastical priesthood" in the Christian church, is a "rant".
It is actually a very serious study.



However, back to the immediate discussion.

You quoted 1 Cor. 9:16 as your "proof text" to support your belief that the levitical priesthood continues in NT pastors, even though the text says nothing on that matter.
But then other people have tried to use that same argument -- so can't blame you for bringing it up.


The reasoning goes -- (faulty reasoning by the way)
The Levitical priesthood was supported by offerings and sacrifices brought to the temple by the people.
Paul says preachers of the gospel should be supported by gifts brought by the people who appreciate the gospel message.
Therefore, they WRONGLY conclude that preachers of the gospel must be priests.

But lets take that exact same reasoning further --

EGW says ministers are to be supported by the tithe (which is one of the gifts the people bring to God's house).
Therefore they WRONGLY conclude ministers are priests.

EGW says women who labor for the Word and Gospel should be supported by the tithe.
By that exact same reasoning then women are priests.

I already know at this point that those who thought the reasoning was RIGHT earlier will throw all kinds of rude remarks telling us how wrong the reasoning is.

And yes, the reasoning is wrong -- it was wrong from the very first step.

The text does NOT show a continuation of the PRIESTHOOD, it only applies the principle of supporting workers.

You are right that there isn't any reason why a woman (or a man) shouldn't get paid from tithe if they are a preacher of the gospel -- that does not make either the men or the women priests.

The Levitical priesthood ended at the cross.
ANY ecclesiastical priesthood in the NT is usurping Christ's ministry.