I understand and respect your position.

I thought it interesting that you acknowledge the validity of James Arrabito's work; so in this are you agreeing that our Church has been infiltrated by the Jesuit?

There is an old picture from the 1888 conference having all the men(5 of them) sitting next to Ellen in the front row doing the masson's secret hidden hand symbol. There is an interesting discussion here on this forum about this. Only from the picture there's a large possibility that the SDA Church was infiltrated as early as 1888 or even sooner. So to me those that suspect any writings beyond 1881 is not that far fetch.

Personally this infiltration doesn't botter me and see this as part of the Lord's plan not only for the SDA Church but for all churches. We need to remember that all the Beasts Empires were set by the Lord to serve His purpose(Rom 13).

Sorry about that...it is largely that I am mixed up about what exactly we believe as what we say is all over the place and have heard many interpretation in this forum.

Could we say we believe that the 2nd beast is supporting the 1st beast agenda? If so, in this I see that we are saying the 1st beast is secretly in power or will be back in power depending what position you take as I have heard both from our church.

There's much to say here but would be lenghty. My understanding is all the 4 beasts of Daniel worship the same image which is MAN. There is a parallele with the second beast of Rev 13 and its image with King Nebuchenezzar and his image in Daniel 3. To really understand Rev 13 we need to also look at Dan 3. I don't claim I understand these in dept.

But I see today and in history that the 2nd beast has establish the RCC as one entity that they control -- as they control also Washington DC to do their biddings. Rome, Washington DC and "the city of London" all 3 have the same symbol (an obelix) in their small lot that display their union. Here's a good explanation of this with some history.




When the RCC came out of Rome to be the 1st Beast of Revelation 13, they too were not "a nation" like Rome, Greece, Persia and Media, or Babylon. That's one reason why the RCC is symbolized in Daniel as an extension of Rome, but yet was call a Beast in Revelation. So I don't see your argument as having validity. I see the symbolism of "Beast" as more of an Empire than representing a nation.

One important puzzle piece I think we should keep in mind about these Jewish underground families who weren't really Jews but Luciferians("which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan."Rev 2:9) that were in hidding in the "earth" for so long -- who fashion the Zionist movement and its agenda -- are descendance of Edom(Esau) - which is a hidden nation mixed with the blood of the Jews that the Lord also have layed out prophecies about that He is fulfilling. The only thing is they have learn the art to do their ruling in "secret" which is their power; thus that's why Revelation identify them as "Mystery(musterion) Babylon". The Greek word musterion is a derivative of muo that means "to shut the mouth". So really a better translation of that name would be "Secret Babylon".

The RCC Beast were not hidden and was conducting their authority in the open. "Secret Babylon" has lost much of their power mainly because their "secret" is no longer hidden anymore and the Lord has been bringing them down by exposing their secret "shaddow government" way of ruling many countries and their indebting scheme thru the Federal Reserve fiat money control.

To me history is showing this type of Empire who has been ruling for the past 100 years. I don't see it as the RCC nor the puppet USA government or the "apostate protestants" that has the current power. They, Edom's descendance, was so secret that most people still don't know about them.

I don't believe that either I or you can convince the other about the identity of the 2nd beasts of Revelation 13. It is one of these complex topic because of all the confusion and obscurity that the Lord has devised for the purpose to keep us out of His way so He can fulfill all that He promised to accomplish by Himself.

However if you want to continue persuing this off-topic discussion; I would be willing. It is healthy to discuss these things, but afterwards, it is only the Holy Spirit that can direct our studies and thoughts and teach us the truth about this. Very soon, when Jesus will come and His Saints of the Most High will be ruling with Him, this will no longer be a mystery for us. It will be plain as day who is who. Untill that day, we have history, current events, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit to teach us.

I heard about James Arrabito long before I joined this site. While I am not 100% certain of the validity of Alberto Rivera's testimony, I have no doubt that the SDA denomination has been infiltrated by the Jesuits. It's just too logical a move for them not to have done it.

By the way, I read the thread on the five men in the picture showing Free Mason signs, really interesting. According to Walter Veith, the Free Masons are a secret puppet of the Jesuits. They specialize in fighting on both sides of a conflict, so it is no surprise that many consider them "enemies" of the Masons. Here is a link to a presentation in which he traces the leadership back to the Black Pope: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MX0GtdVQ26E


I agree, it doesn't bother me that the SDA Church has been infiltrated. It is just another reason to check everything by the Bible. Although, I have faith that God has preserved the writings of ALL of His prophets, the writings of Ellen White should also be checked out with Scripture. So far, I have found no discrepancies between the two.

Since "all things, (are) set by the Lord to serve His purpose"(Rom 13)
would it not serve our Father's purpose to preserve intact the messages
He sent to His children through His Prophets, including those He delivered
through Ellen White?

Have you considered what would motivate infiltrators of the SDA to allow their presence be detected? It would be an absolutely Machiavellian method of sewing the seeds of doubt about the veracity of a major portion of the Spirit of Prophesy, and they wouldn't have to lift a finger.

Sorry about that...it is largely that I am mixed up about what exactly we believe as what we say is all over the place and have heard many interpretation in this forum.

Could we say we believe that the 2nd beast is supporting the 1st beast agenda? If so, in this I see that we are saying the 1st beast is secretly in power or will be back in power depending what position you take as I have heard both from our church.

There's much to say here but would be lenghty. My understanding is all the 4 beasts of Daniel worship the same image which is MAN. There is a parallele with the second beast of Rev 13 and its image with King Nebuchenezzar and his image in Daniel 3. To really understand Rev 13 we need to also look at Dan 3. I don't claim I understand these in dept.

But I see today and in history that the 2nd beast has establish the RCC as one entity that they control -- as they control also Washington DC to do their biddings. Rome, Washington DC and "the city of London" all 3 have the same symbol (an obelix) in their small lot that display their union. Here's a good explanation of this with some history.




When the RCC came out of Rome to be the 1st Beast of Revelation 13, they too were not "a nation" like Rome, Greece, Persia and Media, or Babylon. That's one reason why the RCC is symbolized in Daniel as an extension of Rome, but yet was call a Beast in Revelation. So I don't see your argument as having validity. I see the symbolism of "Beast" as more of an Empire than representing a nation.

One important puzzle piece I think we should keep in mind about these Jewish underground families who weren't really Jews but Luciferians("which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan."Rev 2:9) that were in hidding in the "earth" for so long -- who fashion the Zionist movement and its agenda -- are descendance of Edom(Esau) - which is a hidden nation mixed with the blood of the Jews that the Lord also have layed out prophecies about that He is fulfilling. The only thing is they have learn the art to do their ruling in "secret" which is their power; thus that's why Revelation identify them as "Mystery(musterion) Babylon". The Greek word musterion is a derivative of muo that means "to shut the mouth". So really a better translation of that name would be "Secret Babylon".

The RCC Beast were not hidden and was conducting their authority in the open. "Secret Babylon" has lost much of their power mainly because their "secret" is no longer hidden anymore and the Lord has been bringing them down by exposing their secret "shaddow government" way of ruling many countries and their indebting scheme thru the Federal Reserve fiat money control.

To me history is showing this type of Empire who has been ruling for the past 100 years. I don't see it as the RCC nor the puppet USA government or the "apostate protestants" that has the current power. They, Edom's descendance, was so secret that most people still don't know about them.

I don't believe that either I or you can convince the other about the identity of the 2nd beasts of Revelation 13. It is one of these complex topic because of all the confusion and obscurity that the Lord has devised for the purpose to keep us out of His way so He can fulfill all that He promised to accomplish by Himself.

However if you want to continue persuing this off-topic discussion; I would be willing. It is healthy to discuss these things, but afterwards, it is only the Holy Spirit that can direct our studies and thoughts and teach us the truth about this. Very soon, when Jesus will come and His Saints of the Most High will be ruling with Him, this will no longer be a mystery for us. It will be plain as day who is who. Untill that day, we have history, current events, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit to teach us. [/quote]



Elle, I have no problem believing the historical accuracy of most of what you say; however, I must respectfully disagree with how it applies to Bible prophesy.

I agree, we likely won't change each others mind as to symbolic interpretation.
I do believe, you are a sincere, fruitful person, and a very nice lady.

Your slant on current and historic events, things spiritual and temporal is fascinating.
In particular the watch you keep on financial circles is excellent! It is a world I am not overly familiar with and I believe it has a major role in what is coming to pass on this planet.

I appreciate your views and will be watching the threads for your insights.
It is a real pleasure to talk with you!

Tx for confirming and I agree that it is too logical for them not to have done it.

To my understanding, there are many factions:Jesuit, Masons, the commitee of 300, the British Royal family, the Rothschilds,Rockefellers, Warburgs, and shifts famiies, and others that are all seperate entities doing their own stuff yet they have the same agenda and that's why they can come into agreement. I also heard that some of the blood of these different factions are often intermix by marriages or are related in some ways generations back. So it is a real spaghetty mess that is realy hard for anyone today to know the truth of whom is on top of the pyramid and calls the shots. It's not for nothing that the Lord gave them the name "Babylon". But I personally don't believe it is the black pope that is on the top like many Chirstian say.

What all these factions have in common is they worship MAN which is the essense of the Luciferian worship. That's why I am starting to see that the image of Rev 13 is MAN that all these factions have no problem to support and worship and are working to make the world worship the same image.


In History the Lord cannonize the OT before Christ 1st coming and again cannonized the NT writings afterwards. The writings of EGW has not been cannonized nor is it in the GCs agenda. I think it is very presumptuous to think that all of EGW writings has been preserved without seeing the same work the Lord has done with OT & NT.


I see it this way -- The Lord has always provided a lot of reasons for people to neglect their duty to test all things against the Law of Moses which is the foundation of all truth(Is 8:20). Prophets has always been tested against the Law. And also to take note....prophets has to grow into their ministry. They are not without human errors. That's why cannonizing their work is important and was needed in the past. The biggest error prophets do is they bring their own interpretation of the Lord's Word received in the beginning of their ministry. It takes lots of refinement and maturity to come and accept that most of the time the Lord did not provide interpretation. The Lord requires of them to only speak the Word given without adding or substracting to it.

Elle wrote;

"#1. Can I find this in the Bible? There's a discussion here that took place about 7 years ago that was concluded that we cannot prove from the Blble that Sunday is the mark of the beast. "

Blessings Elle,

The mark of the beast is forced Sunday observance.

What we all need to do is find the description of the "beast" in the Bible and discover its identifying characteristics. And when we look into history we only find one institution or church that meets all the identifying marks. This would be the Roman Catholic hierarchy or the Papacy.

Well then, we simply let the Papacy speak for itself throughout history and we find not only the great blasphemy but also the self described mark of her authority; Sunday worship. The Bible clearly tells us that worship is the issue.

So, I don't know why that wasn't handled well in this conversation you mentioned, but, we know what the mark of the beast is.

You could revive the old discussion Can you prove from the Bible alone that Sunday is the Mark of the Beast? and address it there and present what you know.

Montain Man (a pastor on this Forum) started that discussion and took the position that it cannot be proven.

My comment: Putin recent move in Syria is a Global Changing Card. Notice that this event mark the last Tetrad blood moon. ISIS as Al-queda, are "US" created, funded, trained ... to distabilize the Middle East (an Zionist agenda) so they can take away the sovereignty of the nations in the Middle East, put in place their puppet rulers, bring in their banking system to enslave the population via debts, and create a division between all religions.

This card that Putin recently played has neutralized directly the Zionist agenda. This is a World changing card that will have an tremendous effect politicaly and economicaly.

Notice the section I highlited in red. The writter recognize that it is not a victory over Obama or the US but a "supranational grouping which uses the United States as a battling Ram". This observation has been made by many secular reporters who now understand to their ability the identity of "Mystery(secret) Babylon". Also take note that Russia and China (Kings of the East of Today) are the ones the Lord has chosen to bring down todays Babylonian Empire.

Putin’s Global Game Changer
http://www.globalresearch.ca/putins-global-game-changer/5479292

"Contrary to the expectations of many experts who were predicting a “second Munich” from Vladimir Putin in New York, the Russian president made no grandiose proclamations during his address to the UN General Assembly. In fact, he was outwardly far milder than one might have imagined. By comparison, Obama’s emotional speech, which was replete with strident but unsubstantiated claims, seemed sad, and occasionally even comical. For example, there was a passage about the ouster of Assad, but then less than a day later the US position flip-flopped …

After the speeches, Putin and Obama sat down for a nearly two-hour conversation, after which the US president could not even rouse himself sufficiently to emerge to speak to journalists. The Russian president conducted an exhaustive press conference on his own.

What is the takeaway from those last three days in September, which, according to many observers, lay to rest the idea of a unipolar world?

First of all, the US is making profound changes in its attitude to Poroshenko’s regime in Ukraine, assembling a reserve set of “politicians” and revoking its green light for military action. Incumbent PM Yatsenyuk is more likely to be replaced by Sergey Lyovochkin, former head of ex-president Yanukovych’ administration and memner of “Opposition Bloc”. Given the pacification of Kiev and the Southeast in accordance with the Kremlin’s terms, the US withdrawal from Ukraine – and the withdrawal of Ukraine itself into the shadow of the world’s agenda – the US wager on the “Opposition Bloc” makes perfect sense.

The very next day in Minsk, Aleksandr Zakharchenko and Leonid Kuchma confirmed that weapons of a caliber less than 100 mm. would be pulled back 15 km. behind the front line, which actually signifies an end to the hostilities. For the preceding seven months no one had been able to reach an agreement on this point. At the same time, Kiev admitted that it had committed war crimes in the Donbass: several stories on this topic appeared over the course of a single day in the Ukrainian media, from the admission that Oles Buzina had been killed by commandos from a special forces unit of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, to an acknowledgment of crimes committed by “territorial” battalions. Obviously this would not have happened without an order from the American embassy. To this must be added the resignation of Evelyn Farkas, the Pentagon’s top official overseeing military relations with Russia and Ukraine. Ms. Farkas had held that position for five years. She will officially leave her post in late October. It should be noted that this senior official had insisted on retaliatory measures against Russia’s policy in Ukraine and had also facilitated the provision of financial aid to Kiev.

And all this occurred less than a day after Vladimir Putin’s speech in New York and his meeting with Obama. That means that all these events were the result of a deal. And in fact, these are only the first fruits. Clearly there is more to come. But the trend is clear – the US has acknowledged the legitimacy of Russian claims that Ukraine is within Russia’s sphere of interest.

Second, the situation in and around Syria changed dramatically over the course of one day. The US is no longer insisting on Assad’s resignation. The US is not opposing Russian military involvement in operations against ISIL and is prepared to enter into immediate negotiations with Russia about the formation of a united front against terrorists. Russia’s air force launched strikes on ISIL strongholds after Assad asked Moscow for military assistance, and the Federation Council approved the use of the Russian air force against the terrorists in Syria. That would have been inconceivable even on the morning of Sept. 28. But only a day and a half later this was the reality, which is evidence of the dramatic change in the entire global geopolitical picture.

Time magazine had written about this just the day before.

If Putin can get Obama to go along with his proposal as well, it would mark one of the greatest diplomatic triumphs of his 15 years in power.

This means Russia’s victory is now official. The only question is – victory over whom?

What I mean is – I would like to emphasize that this is not a victory over Obama, as many experts are simplistically trying to present it, but over a powerful supranational grouping, which uses the United States as a battering ram in order to plunge the world into a new Middle Ages. And this group’s reaction to the agreement between Putin and Obama quickly followed. Right out of the blue Hillary Clinton launched into a tirade of criticism against Obama. But she was not lambasting him over agreements with Russia on Syria and Ukraine, as one might have expected, but over a purely domestic issue – ObamaCare.

Leaving aside for the moment the content of his speech, which has already been picked over for quotes, let us try to answer the main question – why did Putin have to address the “international community” at all? Couldn’t he have just published an article in any international media outlet? The answer is very simple – for the same reason he had to help a flock of young Siberian cranes get to where they needed to go. The content of Putin’s New York speech takes a distant second to the psychological component of his message to the leaders of the world community and the global decision-makers in the West. Time will reveal the significance of that. But, looking at how the global picture evolved between Sept. 29 and 30, we can see that Putin really got through to the intended audience for his statements. And he was more than just heard – specific agreements have now been reached with Moscow regarding the first steps for getting out of the quagmire into which the backstage elites have led the world.

How did/does this mark the tetrad or vice-a-versa? Is there any relation?


Did you notice in the picture you linked to how the woman had her hand on the man's shoulders? This can be no other than women's ordination in the making!
NOT.

And look at this picture! http://www.adventistreview.org/church-ne...enical-meetings

Notice how all but one has their hands gripped closed. What does this mean?!!!