ProdigalOne & Alchemy, you both totally mis-understood what either myself or Stephen purpose and intend in bringing Keshe's discovery. Neither one have even said that Keshe's discovery was going to be used. We both are looking at Keshe as a potential move the Lord might bring to defeat Mystery Babylon.

It is only to understand what the Lord might be doing in the midst of today's WORLD current ENERGY control by Mystery Babylon via Petroleum. If the needs of Petroleum becomes totally obsolete by the discovery of another SIMPLER ENERGY SOURCE & TECHNOLOGY -- then wouldn't it become an END GAME CONTROL for Mystery Babylon? That's all.

2)nor will it stop the Lord from using Keshe discovery if He wants to end Mystery Babylon's control with petroleum.

The Lord has used unbelievers (who are often men full with themselves like Keshe is currently thinking of himself) in the past to change the world course as He did with Cyrus. That's why I brought up King Cyrus to show a case where the Lord has used unbelievers before.

You have not said this but for the records -- I did not apply Keshe "Messiah Type" to Joseph "Messiah Type", but to Cyrus "Messiah type". What I understand is all biblical "Messiah Types" show different aspect of Jesus' coming Messianic work. I would agree that applying Keshe to Joseph's Messiah pattern would be a mis-match. Keshe only match the "Cyrus Messiah Type" which is totally Biblical and a perfect match as due to the following similitudes :
1) Cyrus was Persian like Keshe,
2)Cyrus was an unbeliever like Keshe is
3)Cyrus concquered Bybylon and freed the people; like Keshe discovery has the potential to do the same by making the current Mystery Babylon petroleum control and wars obsolete.

I think that's a false assumption. What I see from scriptures, the Lord has always used men and woman, believers or unbelievers, regardless of what they currently believed, how much or little of the truth they knew, no matter how faulty current beieves maybe, and no matter how "usurping" our actions maybe at times.

The Bible does not tell us details of Joseph or Cyrus previous "misunderstandings". I'm sure Joseph had many mis-understandings as we all have limited understandings of the Lord's laws, ways, and plan. We all had misunderstandings; thus have all acted as an usurper and "anti-christs" (in it's negative definition) many times in our own lives. However, that never stopped the Lord from using anyone of us to fulfill part of His plan if He wants to. Most people in scriptures has acted out parts without even understanding what they were doing.

Whether Joseph had those thoughts or have claimed it publically to his brothers when he first received the dreams -- that is not declare to us in scriptures. You can not make such a claims that Joseph or Cyrus never did have those thoughts or made such Messianic claims when this information is not provided. It is called speculation.

Elle, I believe that you have been drawn toward some unhealthy spiritual influences as a direct result of your rejection of much of the Spirit of Prophesy.
You told me that you have little confidence in the writings of Ellen White after the death of James White.

.... So to me those that suspect any writings beyond 1881 is not that far fetch.

I beg you to reconsider. Remember, God is in control. If our Lord desires that His people receive the messages delivered through His prophet, He is absolutely able to preserve those messages. The Lord God, Creator of the universe, Savior of humanity, is mightier than any! Have faith in Him, Sister. He is more than capable of thwarting any mortal manipulation of His prophetic warnings!

Elle : #3. With all honesty, I think no one of us (SDAs) should or can quote any of EGW's writings because our Church failed to make a cleanup(cannonize) her writings. All the EGW writings we have we do not know which texts comes straight from her pen. She had a large team of people working and writing for her that we are told that Ellen has approved. Plus some of EGW writings has been changed here and there even after her death and we are told that she had approved or would approve of it by the white estate. I have known an SDA and heard of others who goes to the extend to not trust any EGW's writtings dating after 1881 -- when James White died and ceased to oversee her writtings.

I do believe the Lord spoke to Ellen, however until our Church does the work needed to clean up and tell us what actually came from the pen of Ellen…’till then I only have the Holy Scriptures and the guidance of the the Holy Spirit to rely on.

ProdigalOne :Elle, I believe we must trust that God has preserved the integrity of the Spirit of Prophesy. If we begin to doubt the veracity of the messages the Lord has gifted the Church with, then this same line of logic will lead us to question the Bible itself! After all it is far older and has passed through far more hands than the SOP writings.

Questioning God's power to preserve the Word that He has once delivered to us has led more than one denomination, and I'm afraid even some Seventh Day Adventists to disaster. With no firm foundation, we are left blind and bound to fall into a pit...

The quote below is from 1883, two years after your deadline; however, these words were not written behind closed doors, in some private study. Sister White spoke these words in a sermon in front of the General Conference. That is a rather large number of respectable witnesses. I believe them to be accurate:

"When you find men questioning the testimonies, finding fault with them, and seeking to draw away the people from their influence, be assured that God is not at work through them. It is another spirit..."

1SM 45.1 - From a sermon at the General Conference of 1883

Elle :I understand and respect your position.

I thought it interesting that you acknowledge the validity of James Arrabito's work; so in this are you agreeing that our Church has been infiltrated by the Jesuit?

There is an old picture from the 1888 conference having all the men(5 of them) sitting next to Ellen in the front row doing the masson's secret hidden hand symbol. There is an interesting discussion here on this forum about this. Only from the picture there's a large possibility that the SDA Church was infiltrated as early as 1888 or even sooner. So to me those that suspect any writings beyond 1881 is not that far fetch.

Personally this infiltration doesn't botter me and see this as part of the Lord's plan not only for the SDA Church but for all churches. We need to remember that all the Beasts Empires were set by the Lord to serve His purpose(Rom 13).

ProdigalOne :I heard about James Arrabito long before I joined this site. While I am not 100% certain of the validity of Alberto Rivera's testimony, I have no doubt that the SDA denomination has been infiltrated by the Jesuits. It's just too logical a move for them not to have done it.

Elle : Tx for confirming and I agree that it is too logical for them not to have done it.

ProdigalOne :I agree, it doesn't bother me that the SDA Church has been infiltrated. It is just another reason to check everything by the Bible. Although, I have faith that God has preserved the writings of ALL of His prophets, the writings of Ellen White should also be checked out with Scripture. So far, I have found no discrepancies between the two.

Since "all things, (are) set by the Lord to serve His purpose"(Rom 13)
would it not serve our Father's purpose to preserve intact the messages
He sent to His children through His Prophets, including those He delivered
through Ellen White?

Elle :In History the Lord cannonize the OT before Christ 1st coming and again cannonized the NT writings afterwards. The writings of EGW has not been cannonized nor is it in the GCs agenda. I think it is very presumptuous to think that all of EGW writings has been preserved without seeing the same work the Lord has done with OT & NT.

ProdigalOne :Have you considered what would motivate infiltrators of the SDA to allow their presence be detected? It would be an absolutely Machiavellian method of sewing the seeds of doubt about the veracity of a major portion of the Spirit of Prophesy, and they wouldn't have to lift a finger.

Elle :I see it this way -- The Lord has always provided a lot of reasons for people to neglect their duty to test all things against the Law of Moses which is the foundation of all truth(Is 8:20). Prophets has always been tested against the Law. And also to take note....prophets has to grow into their ministry. They are not without human errors. That's why cannonizing their work is important and was needed in the past. The biggest error prophets do is they bring their own interpretation of the Lord's Word received in the beginning of their ministry. It takes lots of refinement and maturity to come and accept that most of the time the Lord did not provide interpretation. The Lord requires of them to only speak the Word given without adding or substracting to it.

Last night we reported the shocking news that none other than "China's Carl Icahn" (or its "Warren Buffett" depending on the news source), Xu Xiang - who has ranked China's 188th richest man with $2.2 billion in net worth according to the Hurun rich list - had been arrested in what was the latest crackdown against "malicious short sellers", with Bloomberg adding that Shanghai police raided hedge fund Zexi Investment on Sunday, taking away computers and other materials, "in the latest attempt by Chinese authorities to crack down on strategies blamed for exacerbating a $5 trillion stock-market rout."
According to the FT, Xiang "was the the leading light of the “Limit-up Kamikaze Squad”, a group of hedge fund managers known for their fearless speculation."

He was “captain” of the loose collection of fund managers centred on the coastal city of Ningbo in eastern Zhejiang province who are known for pushing favoured stocks up by the 10 per cent daily limit on Chinese exchanges.
To be sure the hedge fund's stunning returns which saw 4 of its 5 funds return over 60% during the June to August Shanghai Composite rout, only added to the "case" against Chinese shorters in what will likely be the first of many such crackdowns against anyone who disobeys the market's primary directive of only going higher.
There was an even more dramatic interlude in the news when Chinese media first reported, then retracted that an associated of Xiang's, Wu Shuang "tried to resist escape, and was shot by police on the spot."

But while the fate of both Zexi, and its various founders remains in limbo, just as notable is that while the US regulators dither, China has already launched its crackdown against High Frequency Traders.

As the raid of Zexi's office was taking place, Shanghai police also arrested 3 suspects as they cracked a case of stock futures price manipulation involving over 11.3 billion yuan (US$1.8 billion), police said yesterday in a statement.

According to Shanghai Daily, Yishidun, a commercial company registered in Jiangsu Province’s Zhangjiagang City in 2012, was found to use an illegal stock futures trading software to destabilize the market and profit from volatility.

In other words, Yishidun was a high-frequency trader doing precisely what HFTs do not only in China but around the entire world: recall that none other than HFT poster child Virtu boasted that on the day of the August 24 HFT/ETF clash crash it had "one of its most profitable days in history."

Reuters adds that "the firm allegedly used software to buy up to 31 futures contracts in one second, said Xinhua, adding from early June to early July it made a net profit of over 500 million yuan."

More from the source:

The software uses complex algorithms to analyze the markets and are able to spot emerging trends in a fraction of a second. By essentially anticipating and beating the trends to the market place, institutions that implement high frequency trading can gain favorable returns on trades they make by essence of their bid-ask spread, resulting in significant profits.

The firm made 8,110 deals with 11.3 billion yuan in turnover, and made a total profit of 2 billion yuan since 2012. It made a profit of 500 million yuan from the Chinese stock market rout in June and July.
Based on their names, it would appear that the founders of the HFT firm were Russian, Georgy Zarya and Anton Murashov. The duo urged general manager Gao Yan to borrow 31 individual and corporate accounts to trade stock futures with nearly 7 million yuan capital.

As instructed by Zarya, Gao also sent over 1 million yuan to Jin Wenxian, a technical supervisor with a futures company who helped Yishidun cover up the transactions while using the software undetected by authorities and transferring funds, the statement said. While Gao, Jin and Liang Ze, another senior executive of Yishidun, have been arrested, the case is still under investigation.

Xinhua adds that "the company's trade activities deteriorated the fluctuations in daily trade prices and affected then market trade prices and normal trade orders."

Hardly new, Chinese authorities have previously blamed "malicious" trading in stock futures for stoking share volatility that saw bourses slide over 40 percent since June. Investigations into market manipulation have so far netted journalists, senior executives in brokerages and even securities regulators.

However, the actual arrests of established, household name investors and now, high frequency traders, is a new development, and reminds us of what we said over a year ago, namely that when the market is going up and HFTs are assisting the creation of upward price momentum, everyone is happy. However, the moment a market crashes, there is no easier target than a bunch of math PhDs.

This has already happened in China. It will happen in the US once central bankers can no longer halt the next market crash which they themselves have guaranteed with 606 rate cuts and $13 trillion in liquidity injections.