Blessings MM,

It is important to not get confused between the little time of trouble and Jacob's time of trouble. These are completely different events.

Sister White calls the time of trouble in the chapter called "The Time of Trouble" in Great Controversy Jacob's time of trouble.

So not one person here agrees with the pioneers?

THE SEVEN HEADS OF REVELATION 12, 13, AND 17
BY
URIAH SMITH

In advocating the view that the seven heads of the dragon of Revelation 12... represent seven forms of government that have existed in the Roman Empire, the writer deems it necessary to remind the reader that he is not dealing in novelties. He is not introducing a new view to appeal to the curiosity of the reader, and to cater to the not always healthy excitement of pursuing a line of thought because it is strange. But the view which will be advocated in this paper is one which has characterized the Adventist movement from the beginning, through the first, second, and third messages, to the present time, and is only beginning within a few years to be called in question. Nor can the view be said to be peculiar to Adventists in its historical aspect, - a scheme devised by them to meet their peculiar views of prophecy, - for scholars declared before the Adventist movement began, that Rome had presented to the world, as a unique and marvelous feature of history, seven distinct forms of government. All that the Adventists did, was to say, as the most natural thing in the world, that if Rome did have seven forms of government, the seven heads of the dragon, which was a symbol of Rome, must be designed to represent that fact. The old Roman historians, Livy and Tacitus, acknowledged the different forms of government in Rome, to be so many “heads” of the Roman commonwealth... And one of the earliest Protestant commentators, Osiander, as early as 1511, names the whole seven as we have them; namely, Kings, Consuls, Decemvirs, Dictators, Triumvirs, Emperors, and Popes, as the forms of Roman government represented by the seven heads of the dragon of Revelation 12... Adventists, under the first message, at once adopted this view. {SHR 1.1}

***** STAFF EDIT *****

Pope Francis is the eighth Papal king since the healing of the head wound by Mussolini in 1929 giving the pope his title of KING back.

He is also "the beast that was and is not" because he is a Jesuit, the persecuting power of the Papacy.

AND he is from OUT OF the seven hills of Rome which is symbolic of the territory of the ancient Roman empire, because he is the first to be elected from OUT OF the mountains of Europe.

Now he will lead the world to perdition and you all stand around and argue who the seven heads are.

Pope Francis was with the protestant leaders when they said "the protest is over" and you all still argue?

Please read this blog..... ***** STAFF EDIT *****

http://allbeastslead2rome.blogspot.com/2015/10/blog-post.html

Did anyone catch that? Would anyone like to venture to guess how we got here from where Uriah Smith said the Reformers taught and believed and the Pioneers defended?

"the view which will be advocated in this paper is one which has characterized the Adventist movement from the beginning, through the first, second, and third messages, to the present time, and is only beginning within a few years to be called in question"

But you all know better than the pioneers?

I understand that the term Roman Empire is used, but, that term is technically incorrect!

The Apostle Peter called Imperial Rome Babylon and Ellen White called Papal Rome Babylon. So, the correct term is actually Babylon.

And the beast the was, and is not, is also Babylon.

Now, Rome plays a huge part in Babylon, I know. But, the first and eighth mountains is Babylon with the other six being different representations of Babylon down through the ages. The eighth is of the seven and is Babylon.

I really can't say that enough.

(bold emphasis mine)

No. I got my understanding from the Bible and Ellen White.

You can read those words from Uriah Smith and still not back down here?

"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits"

Rome has been called the city of Seven Hills since before the days of Christ but you know better right? Man I am so tired. Lord please open their eyes, PLEASE.

EVEN IN WIKIPEDIA they have an entry called "Seven Hills of Rome" and in another they say "Rome was traditionally called the City of Seven Hills" in the time of Christ, but you think you change history? Children sing songs of the seven hills of Rome.

The Seven Hills of Rome (Italian: Sette colli di Roma [ˈsɛtte ˈkɔlli di ˈroːma], Latin: Septem montes Romae) east of the river Tiber form the geographical heart of Rome, within the walls of the ancient city.

From Wiki;

The seven hills are:

Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
Caelian Hill (Caelius, Celio)
Capitoline Hill (Capitolinus, Campidoglio)
Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)

The Vatican Hill (Latin Collis Vaticanus) lying northwest of the Tiber... (is) not counted among the traditional Seven Hills.

The fallen church SITS on the city that reigns over the kings of the earth. What city is called the IMPERIAL CITY?

The prophecy says "the woman you saw is that great CITY" but you change the bible to fit your interpretation? SHAME on YOU!

James, you still seem stuck on "heads".

Some questions you need to answer.

Why does the 7 count start at 1929?

If there are 3 phases, then please list the "heads" of the other phases, how the 5th was wounded and healed in each phase.

If Ellen White saw the 5th head wounded and it was healed, why restart the count?

You say OUT OF means not out of but from elsewhere. What would it say if it really did mean he comes out of Rome and not out of "Argentina, South America;"?

This OUT OF bit is enough to reject the whole thing. And that's where I was no longer interested in finishing it.

Finally semi-rational questions that can be answered without abuse.

First how did the Pope become a secular KING?

"When the early church became corrupted by departing from the simplicity of the gospel and accepting heathen rites and customs, she lost the Spirit and power of God; and in order to control the consciences of the people, she sought the support of the secular power. The result was the papacy, a church that controlled the power of the state and employed it to further her own ends, especially for the punishment of “heresy.” In order for the United States to form an image of the beast, the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the state will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends. {GC 443.2}

Question; What happened to the secular power of the Papal HEAD when the Pope was taken hostage and he died in exile?

Answer; The Pope lost his title of KING when Napoleon took Pius VI hostage and he died in exile, losing his secular power which is addressed in literally dozens of quotes from the Spirit of Prophecy.

Question; When did the pope become a KING again?

Answer; In 1929 when Mussolini gave him his title back by making the Vatican a SOVEREIGN STATE once again.

But this might too much for you to comprehend (leave it in Daryl)

Kland says "James, you still seem stuck on "heads"."

But when the super majority of people are wrong about this issue and have disregarded the teachings of the pioneers don't you think God would have them corrected? (Not you of course, you're perfect)

But since you continue to listen to the voices that would destroy our church and you are still here teaching lies, I have to continue.

Pay very close attention to this since it is obvious you do not get it, and probably never will.

"In the seventeenth of Revelation is foretold the destruction of all the churches who corrupt themselves by idolatrous devotion to the service of the papacy, those who have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. [Revelation 17:1-4 quoted.] {7BC 983.3}
Thus is represented the papal power, which with all deceivableness of unrighteousness, by outside attraction and gorgeous display, deceives all nations; promising them, as did Satan our first parents, all good to those who receive its mark, and all harm to those who oppose its fallacies. The power which has the deepest inward corruption will make the greatest display, and will clothe itself with the most elaborate signs of power. The Bible plainly declares that this covers a corrupt and deceiving wickedness. “Upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, The Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth.” {7BC 983.4}
What is it that gives its kingdom to this power? Protestantism, a power which, while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb and to be allied to Heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon. It is moved by a power from beneath (Letter 232, 1899). {7BC 983.5}


Gee, where in there do you see anything about anything else but the Papacy and Protestants?

OUR PROPHET says Revelation 17 is about the destruction of the fallen protestant churches and the papacy. You want to call her a liar?

Why don't you pray and research?

Young's Literal Translation;

Rev 17:11 "and the beast that was, and is not, he also is eighth, and out of the seven he is, and to destruction he doth go away.

John was taken to the time of the sixth king in the vision. So at that time Bergoglio was not in Rome yet. But that king JPII re-established the Jesuits in Rome. So Bergoglio would be OUT OF the territory of Rome (Europe) at the time of the vision.

The word that is translate "out of" is ἐκ

ἐκ; a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):

The prophecy says;

17:11 and the beast that was, and is not, he also is eighth, and out of the seven (hills) he is, and to destruction he doth go away.

Mrs White said the Jesuits were the power designed by the Papacy to destroy Protestants in the Dark Ages, they are "the beast that was".

So when the prophecy says the eighth king is the restoration of that beast, and at the time of the vision, the reign of the sixth papal king after the healing, he is "OUT of" Rome at that time, this fits perfectly with BerGOGlio being the first Jesuit Pope.

The prophecy of the 8 kings is designed to see peculiar elements to each kings reign, to identify them, or else everyone will be left in ignorance to come up with their own conclusions and this is NOT the intent of the Holy Spirit who is calling us to be of ONE MIND!

The prophecy is very important but people like you want to stay in ignorance and lose the blessing of the warning.

What are the odds that the sixth king (JPII) was also the Pope who brought the Protestants to ecumenism, and asked our president to overthrow Communism, and who reestablished the Jesuits in Rome.

AND; the seventh Papal king retired so he "must remain a short time" AFTER his reign.

AND the eighth king is a Jesuit who was OUT of Rome during the time of the sixth king?

What are the odds?

Jesus was asked when the end would be and He said "where the CORPSE is the eagles will gather" and the Jesuits motto is Perende ac Cadaver" calling themselves a CORPSE. And you think is all coincidence?