Here is irrefutable evidence of who the seven heads are, and the eighth.

Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. (here comes the explanation)

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and out of the seven he is, and goeth into perdition.


"The beast that was and is not" is mentioned here three times in this one verse. AND the same verse says this beast is also this eighth king, and this eighth king leads the world to perdition. So who is the beast that was and is not? I can prove everything God showed me from ONE book. The Great Controversy.

"Said the angel of the Lord: “The holy city [the true church] shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth....And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.” [Revelation 11:2-11.] {GC88 266.1}

“When they shall have finished [are finishing] their testimony.” The period when the two witnesses were to prophesy clothed in sackcloth, ended in 1798. As they were approaching the termination of their work in obscurity, war was to be made upon them by the power represented as “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit.” In many of the nations of Europe the powers that ruled in church and state had for centuries been controlled by Satan through the medium of the papacy. But here is brought to view a new manifestation of satanic power." {GC 268.3}

So according the Spirit of Prophecy "the Beast that was and is not" is the Papacy. PERIOD. So how could this refer to any time prior to the rise of the PAPACY? This proves John was not seeing from the perspective of his day. He was taken in the Spirit to see the future during the time of the sixth king. But the prophecy is not just talking about the Pope becoming a king again but the full revised power that made war against the saints in the Dark ages after the deadly HEAD wound is healed. So even though since 1929 the pope was again considered a KING the persecuting power of the Papacy had not been reestablished yet in the time of the sixth king "John Paul II".

"It was apostasy that led the early church to seek the aid of the civil government, and this prepared the way for the development of the papacy—the beast. Said Paul: “There” shall “come a falling away, ... and that man of sin be revealed.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3. So apostasy in the church will prepare the way for the image to the beast." {GC 443.4}

So according to this quote the BEAST arose when the religious powers sought the aid of civil government. So when the church had gained civil power once again they came out of the wilderness and became a beast, which occurred in 1929. This is also when the popes became a KING again. But then after the papacy was reestablished, the sixth king would call on the aid of civil leaders. Oh my, how conspicuous that the sixth king John Paul II came to America to "seek the aid of the civil Government" through Ronald Reagan to overthrow the USSR in 1980.

But this was not yet the beast restored because that happens when the eighth king comes who just so happens to be a JESUIT the persecuting power of the Papacy. And what did he just do? He came to ask the aid of our civil governments world wide.

"The infliction of the deadly (head) wound points to the abolition of the papacy in 1798. After this, says the prophet, “His deadly wound was healed; and all the world wondered after the beast.” Paul states plainly that the man of sin will continue until the second advent. [2 Thessalonians 2:8.] To the very close of time he will carry forward his work of deception. And the Revelator declares, also referring to the papacy, “All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life.” [Revelation 13:8.] In both the Old and the New World, papacy will receive homage in the honor paid to the Sunday institution, that rests solely upon the authority of the Romish Church. {GC88 578.3}

"At this time the order of the Jesuits was created, the most cruel, unscrupulous, and powerful of all the champions of popery. Cut off from earthly ties and human interests, dead to the claims of natural affection, reason and conscience wholly silenced, they knew no rule, no tie, but that of their order, and no duty but to extend its power. (See Appendix.) The gospel of Christ had enabled its adherents to meet danger and endure suffering, undismayed by cold, hunger, toil, and poverty, to uphold the banner of truth in face of the rack, the dungeon, and the stake. To combat these forces, Jesuitism inspired its followers with a fanaticism that enabled them to endure like dangers, and to oppose to the power of truth all the weapons of deception. There was no crime too great for them to commit, no deception too base for them to practice, no disguise too difficult for them to assume. Vowed to perpetual poverty and humility, it was their studied aim to secure wealth and power, to be devoted to the overthrow of Protestantism, and the re-establishment of the papal supremacy. {GC 234.2}

"The Jesuits rapidly spread themselves over Europe, and wherever they went, there followed a revival of popery. {GC 235.1}
To give them greater power, a bull was issued re-establishing the inquisition." (See Appendix below.)

Page 234. Jesuitism.—For a statement concerning the origin, the principles, and the purposes of the “Society of Jesus,” as outlined by members of this order, see a work entitled Concerning Jesuits, edited by the Rev. John Gerard, S.J., and published in London, 1902, by the Catholic Truth Society. In this work it is said, “The mainspring of the whole organization of the Society is a spirit of entire obedience: ‘Let each one,’ writes St. Ignatius, ‘persuade himself that those who live under obedience ought to allow themselves to be moved and directed by divine Providence through their superiors, just as though they were a dead body(CORPSE), which allows itself to be carried anywhere and to be treated in any manner whatever, or as an old man’s staff, which serves him who holds it in his hand in whatsoever way he will.’ {GC 686.4}
“This absolute submission is ennobled by its motive, and should be, continues the ... founder, ‘prompt, joyous and persevering; ... The obedient religious accomplishes joyfully that which his superiors have confided to him for the general good, assured that thereby he corresponds truly with the divine will.’”—The Comtesse R. de Courson, in Concerning Jesuits, page 6. {GC 686.5}

Jesus said that the end would come when the "CORPSE" is in power. And how conspicuous that the eighth king is a CORPSE.

This is a faithful witness. Anyone who argues with this from now on will NEVER see the kingdom of God.

I understand your point, James. Doug Batchelor makes the same point in his latest movie. But, that is at best a secondary application of the "seven hills on which the woman sits".

Mountains in the Bible are not applied that way! Mt. Zion for instance. So, these seven mountains must be large dominating types of nations or countries that had some direct relationship with God's people. The Jews before and up to Christ, and Christians after Christ left the earth.

Also, these prophecies cover a much larger time frame than 1929 until our day! There isn't any way to fit everything into that time frame.

So, let's live up to the light we have up to our day.

So you obviously do not know what William Millers eleventh rule of prophetic interpretation is.

11. How to know when a word is used figuratively: If it makes good sense as it stands, and does no violence to the simple laws of nature, then it must be understood literally; if not, figuratively. Revelation 12:1,2;17:3-7

or how about thirteen?

13. To know whether we have the true historical event for the fulfillment of a prophecy: If you find every word of the prophecy (after the figures are understood) is literally fulfilled, then you may know that your history is the true event. But if one word lacks a fulfillment, then you must look for another event, or wait its future development. For God takes care that history and prophecy doth agree, so that the true, believing children of God may never be ashamed. Psalms 21:5; Isaiah 14:17-19; 1 Peter 2:6; Revelation 17:17; Acts 3:18

So when I was looking for the eighth king and his fulfillment and Francis was elected, who is a Jesuit and this fits with the prophecy after looking for him it harmonized with what I was looking for it fit.

But here is a better way of presenting a certain obvious rule to me.

When the prophecy interprets itself like saying "the waters you saw are people" the translation is given, and you cannot take it symbolically from that point on. The waters ARE people (by the way that is the same chapter as what we are discussing) So when the same chapter says "the heads you saw ARE seven hills AND seven kings" the interpretation is given and the interpretation cannot be taken symbolically any more. So the seven heads ARE seven kings from the seven hills and no one will ever change this no matter how much they try, like YOU!

I'm Ba-aak!


Unfortunately, William Miller (who presumably followed his own rules of interpretation, which are here highlighted) gave us, oh, let's see...
THE GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT!




So a better way of interpreting prophecy is to apply Rule #1 of the JSOT method of prophetic interpretation, which is:
1. Have a pre-conceived notion and find Scriptural or EGW (preferably the later) proof-texts to fit it.

I am so glad the Lord told me certain hearts here and other sites are being softened on this subject. I wait with anticipation the first high profile SDA pastor who gives his support. That is when the world will truly know the power of the testimony of the Remnant.

Wonderful...another test. My God sees your hearts foolish men.



Sent directly by the devil right on time. Is no one else going to defend our faith here? (No because you want to test me)

When I came back last week there were only seven guests here at this time of night on Sabbath, now there is almost 500, and I suspect a lot of them are motivated by the same spirit that we see here in JAK. But thank heavens God has told me some people are seeing the truth despite simple minded naysayers.

Do you know that God gave William Miller dreams supported by the Spirit of Prophecy in the writings of Mrs White? Do you even know of the man with the dust broom prophecy? Probably not because you taunt like the devil here.

Apparently YOU JAK believe William Miller made up those rules to prophetic interpretation, even though he was quoting dozens of other Protestant reformer sources and historical patterns of biblical fulfillment. You obviously forget he saw the fulfillment of the prophecies of Daniel like the reformers, so you prove how ignorant you are in this attack.

In your statement it becomes obvious that you want to poke fun at our pioneer and the great disappointment just to get a rise out of me. But how bout if I pray for God to test you? Would you all like that? You have no idea who you are messing with when you try to hurt the one God sent to warn you. There is no time for these silly games. But you all think we have all the time in the world and prove it by your lackadaisical attitudes (awake sleepers)

But you don't even realize "JAK" that William Miller was blessed by God according to the Spirit of Prophecy, so you have just proven that you are not a true Seventh Day Adventist.



The Great Disappointment in 1844 was prophesied by God in Revelation, so "William Miller's method" of interpretation is ordained by God to get him that far, so he must have been right with the will of God. And since the Spirit of Prophecy harmonizes with what God showed him it must be you who doesn't know what he's talking about.

You have the infamous duty of being the one who persecutes the remnant. Which has just been proven in your statement.





But you know better than this man of sterling character who was blessed by God?

Good luck with that one. ***** STAFF EDIT *****

Blessings James,

Can you show in the Bible where "kings" represent a pope? Even when the term "little horn" is used, it is still given a little different designation from the other "horns". And this one "little" horn represents many popes down through the centuries.

How do you get a king is a pope? Or a mountain is a pope? Or a head is just one pope? The Bible never says that, not even in Revelation 17.

Who was the head of Gold on the image in Daniel? "You Nebuchadnezzar, you are that head of Gold". So the image first implies the KING or leader of Babylon then Babylon itself.

Daniels beasts cover till Rome comes on the scene. The Spirit of Prophecy says Rome continues to the end. So there are three phases of Rome represented in Revelation 12/ 13 & 17. All three beasts with seven heads and ten horns represent Rome. This is a fundamental principle of Scripture that EVERY SINGLE REFORMER AND PIONEER AGREED ON.

Through the biblical principle of REPEAT AND ENLARGE those three phases of ROME covers three different phases of ROME.

So what is a head in prophecy according to Daniel?

As we have seen the leader of Babylon was the image head, but there are other examples too. Like the Leopard beast which has four heads. WHY FOUR HEADS? Because after the death of Alexander the Great his kingdom was divided between his four generals. FOUR HEADS.

This is the most natural interpretation of the term "head". the leader, or HEAD OF STATE.

ALL OF THE PROTESTANT REFORMERS AGREED Rome had seven forms of Government from the beginning till the popes. They were "Kings" beginning in 753 BC, "Consuls" beginning in 509 BC, "Decemvirs" beginning in 498 BC, "Dictators" beginning in beginning in 451 BC, "Triumvirs" Beginning in 59 BC, "Emperors" beginning in 27 BC, and POPES beginning in 538 AD.

Uriah Smith said that this understanding "is one which has characterized the Adventist movement from the beginning, through the first, second, and third messages, to the present time, and is only beginning within a few years to be called in question...for scholars declared before the Adventist movement began, that Rome had presented to the world, as a unique and marvelous feature of history, seven distinct forms of government. All that the Adventists did, was to say, as the most natural thing in the world, that if Rome did have seven forms of government, the seven heads of the dragon, which was a symbol of Rome, must be designed to represent that fact"

So do you think the pioneers deserve to be held in high enough esteem that this should be accepted?

The seven heads of the beast in Revelation 12 are the seven DIFFERENT FORMS OF ROMAN GOVERNMENT.

But when the seventh head takes over, Revelation 13 repeats and enlarges that form of roman government. So why would the seven heads in Rev 13 continue to illustrate PAST forms of government when the prophetic time periods of the other six head have past?

Prophecy never does that.

Once a kingdom or power has passed in the prophetic timeline the prophecies move on so the heads evolve. So when the seventh form of government comes the seven heads cover the complete lines of popes till the end of time.

But then head wound comes when the POPE is taken hostage and died in exile and the power of his government is taken away.

So the third phase of Rome picks up where the second phase left off. Then individual characteristics are given to the LAST EIGHT PAPAL KINGS once the pope becomes a KING again.

Simple really and you guys make it impossible to understand with all your conjecture and supposition. This is on YOUR heads.

Ahh!
Good to see you posting here again JSOT.

***** STAFF EDIT *****

Now, Daryl, that changed the intent of the post...