(bold emphasis mine)

What point are you talking about, Green?!? I have never read one good point kland has made in this thread. He follows me around, and others, simply harassing in his nonsense.

So, I need kland to speak for himself and I would hope you would do the same.

As I have mentioned more than once already, Green. Please, read it now. In the chapter "The Time of Trouble" in the book The Great Controversy, Ellen White clearly talks about Satan's personation of Christ as after the close of probation. Are you saying Ellen White is contradicting herself?

Also, I would like to know your thoughts on what I have shared from Revelation 16:12-16? That the dragon represents Satan on the earth well after the close of probation.

You guys came make claims to anything you want, but, this is how the chapter The Time of Trouble starts out;

“At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book.” Daniel 12:1. {GC 613.1}

When the third angel’s message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received “the latter rain,” “the refreshing from the presence of the Lord,” and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.” Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, “It is done;” and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement: “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” Revelation 22:11. Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The number of His subjects is made up; “the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,” is about to be given to the heirs of salvation, and Jesus is to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords. {GC 613.2} (bold emphasis mine)

This is the close of probation! This should have been first on the list from Grean, but, it wasn't. I don't know how Green is thinking like that, but, he is.

This chapter continues until page 634. So, when you quote from page numbers in the 620's, it is from the chapter "The Time of Trouble".

All you people need to read this chapter!

To continue from The Time of Trouble in The Great Controversy;

Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world’s Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC 624.1}

As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour’s advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: “Christ has come! Christ has come!” The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is “the great power of God.” Acts 8:10. {GC 624.2}

But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {GC 625.1}[/color] (bold emphasis mine)

Here, much later in the same chapter, we have the personation of Christ by Satan. This is no doubt after the close of probation that I quoted in my post before this one.

Now, later in this chapter, Sister White talks about the seven last plagues. In talking about the plagues she says;

When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God’s people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: “There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image.” The sea “became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.” And “the rivers and fountains of waters ... became blood.” Terrible as these inflictions are, God’s justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: “Thou art righteous, O Lord, ... because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.” Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. [color:#FF0000]{GC 627.3}

In the plague that follows, power is given to the sun “to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat.” Verses 8, 9. The prophets thus describe the condition of the earth at this fearful time: “The land mourneth; ... because the harvest of the field is perished.... All the trees of the field are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.” “The seed is rotten under their clods, the garners are laid desolate.... How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture.... The rivers of water are dried up, and the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness.” “The songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord God: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.” Joel 1:10-12, 17-20; Amos 8:3. {GC 628.1}

These plagues are not universal, or the inhabitants of the earth would be wholly cut off. Yet they will be the most awful scourges that have ever been known to mortals. All the judgments upon men, prior to the close of probation, have been mingled with mercy. The pleading blood of Christ has shielded the sinner from receiving the full measure of his guilt; but in the final judgment, wrath is poured out unmixed with mercy. {GC 628.2}

In that day, multitudes will desire the shelter of God’s mercy which they have so long despised. “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: and they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.” Amos 8:11, 12. {GC 629.1}(bold emphasis mine)

Her brief mention of the close of probation is to show that these events have been taking place during the seven last plagues. Just as Revelation 16:12-16 teaches. These plagues take place after the close of probation, just as the personation of Christ by Satan does.

Alchemy,

It is true, as you point out, that the chapter in Great Controversy which you referenced starts out speaking of the moment when Michael stands up, and probation is closed. However, the paragraphs which follow do not follow chronologically. Some of them clearly apply to a time before probation's close. For example, consider the following from page 616:



She refers to a time well before the final decree for Sunday observance, leading up to that decree. Mrs. White places the close of probation either at or after the Sunday law (perhaps depending on whether one considers its proclamation or its taking effect). Therefore, this paragraph speaks of a period of time prior to probation's close.

Here's another passage from that chapter:



Those paragraphs leading up to that final sentence clearly refer to a time preceding probation's close. If such were not the case, there would be no need for Mrs. White to tell us how we should be developing our characters, for after the close of probation, this would no longer be possible. She speaks of people being deceived, but after the close of probation, all of the world will see Satan and the papacy unmasked, being thoroughly undeceived at that point. It would, therefore, be futile for us to speak of Satan deceiving anyone post probation.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green wrote;

"Alchemy,

It is true, as you point out, that the chapter in <i>Great Controversy</i> which you referenced starts out speaking of the moment when Michael stands up, and probation is closed. However, the paragraphs which follow do not follow chronologically. Some of them clearly apply to a time <i>before</i> probation's close. For example, consider the following from page 616:

Originally Posted By: Ellen White

As the Sabbath has become the special point of controversy throughout Christendom, and religious and secular authorities have combined to enforce the observance of the Sunday, the persistent refusal of a small minority to yield to the popular demand will make them objects of universal execration. It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the state ought not to be tolerated; that it is better for them to suffer than for whole nations to be thrown into confusion and lawlessness. The same argument many centuries ago was brought against Christ by the "rulers of the people." "It is expedient for us," said the wily Caiaphas, "that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not." John 11:50. This argument will appear conclusive; and a decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death. Romanism in the Old World and apostate Protestantism in the New will pursue a similar course toward those who honor all the divine precepts. {GC 615.2}


She refers to a time well before the final decree for Sunday observance, leading up to that decree. Mrs. White places the close of probation either at or after the Sunday law (perhaps depending on whether one considers its proclamation or its taking effect). Therefore, this paragraph speaks of a period of time prior to probation's close."

I completely disagree! It is still after the close of probation! There isn't anything in this context that lends to that idea or position. Absolutely nothing.

So, at some point, I hope you are prepared to demonstrate that the personation of Christ by Satan is before the close of probation. Because, it is not in this chapter.

There is a point where Satan believes he has accomplished his mission in destroying all of God's people and truth from the earth. He claims this earth as his. This takes place before the close of probation!

When Christ closes probation on the earth, the four winds of strife are let loose. I believe Satan takes this as recognition from God that Satan has indeed won his case!

What happens in the paragraph you mentioned is that God's people have been discovered on the earth! Then the plagues start falling and destroying this great infrastructure of sin that Satan has built. In a desperate act, Satan personates Christ to get the universal death decree he needs to destroy all of God's people before Christ returns. If Satan can do this, he will win his life and freedom.

But, as we read in SpM 2.1, God is true to His word and God's people are delivered. The Scapegoat is bound and Christ does return as He has promised.

So, Sister White is not at all talking about time before the close of probation in that paragraph. She is talking after the close of probation. There isn't anything in this chapter to allow for all these changes of time back and forth!

Then the Catholics bid the Protestants to go forward, and issue a decree that all who will not observe the first day of the week, instead of the seventh day, shall be slain. And the Catholics, whose numbers are large, will stand by the Protestants. The Catholics will give their power to the image of the beast. And the Protestants will work as their mother worked before them to destroy the saints. But before their decree bring or bear fruit, the saints will be delivered by the Voice of God. Then I saw that Jesus’ work in the sanctuary will soon be finished. And after His work there is finished, He will come to the door of the first apartment, and confess the sins of Israel upon the head of the Scape Goat. Then He will put on the garments of vengeance. Then the plagues will come upon the wicked, and they do not come till Jesus puts on that garment, and takes His place upon the great white cloud. Then while the plagues are falling, the Scape Goat is being led away. He makes a mighty struggle to escape, but he is held fast by the hand that leads him. If he should effect his escape, Israel would lose their lives. I saw that it would take time to lead away the Scape Goat into the land of forgetfulness after the sins were put on his head. {SpM 2.1}
(bold emphasis mine)


I wanted to bring this quote here for all to see. It is after the close of probation and while the plagues are falling that Satan is bound. This is the deliverance of God's people. SpM 2.2 then talks about the preparations of Christ's Second Coming.

This is after the close of probation.

Green, I want you to read the paragraph you quoted in the context of the paragraph before and after. This is clearly after the close of probation.

When God’s presence was finally withdrawn from the Jewish nation, priests and people knew it not. Though under the control of Satan, and swayed by the most horrible and malignant passions, they still regarded themselves as the chosen of God. The ministration in the temple continued; sacrifices were offered upon its polluted altars, and daily the divine blessing was invoked upon a people guilty of the blood of God’s dear Son and seeking to slay His ministers and apostles. So when the irrevocable decision of the sanctuary has been pronounced and the destiny of the world has been forever fixed, the inhabitants of the earth will know it not. The forms of religion will be continued by a people from whom the Spirit of God has been finally withdrawn; and the satanic zeal with which the prince of evil will inspire them for the accomplishment of his malignant designs, will bear the semblance of zeal for God. {GC 615.1}

As the Sabbath has become the special point of controversy throughout Christendom, and religious and secular authorities have combined to enforce the observance of the Sunday, the persistent refusal of a small minority to yield to the popular demand will make them objects of universal execration. It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the state ought not to be tolerated; that it is better for them to suffer than for whole nations to be thrown into confusion and lawlessness. The same argument many centuries ago was brought against Christ by the “rulers of the people.” “It is expedient for us,” said the wily Caiaphas, “that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.” John 11:50. This argument will appear conclusive; and a decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death. Romanism in the Old World and apostate Protestantism in the New will pursue a similar course toward those who honor all the divine precepts. {GC 615.2}

The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress described by the prophet as the time of Jacob’s trouble. “Thus saith the Lord: We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.... All faces are turned into paleness. Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.” Jeremiah 30:5-7. {GC 616.1} (bold emphasis mine)

"The time of Jacob's trouble" is clearly after the close of probation. There isn't any way around that!

Two other paragraphs you quoted;

The apostle John in vision heard a loud voice in heaven exclaiming: “Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.” Revelation 12:12. Fearful are the scenes which call forth this exclamation from the heavenly voice. The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction will reach its culmination in the time of trouble. {GC 623.3}

Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world’s Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC 624.1} (bold emphasis mine)

These paragraphs are clearly talking about Satan coming during the sixth plague on the earth. GC 624.1 uses some of the same language are Revelation 16:12-16.

This is clearly after the close of probation.

I'm not persuaded that it is. Are the plagues falling during this time?


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Here's a good quote, Alchemy, to help us with the time line. Note that Mrs. White makes no mention of Satan being deceived regarding the time.



Note, also, that Mrs. White makes no mention of the faithful needing not to concern themselves about this deception, as she logically should if their cases were already to have been closed at this point.

Mrs White says:



Why would it matter what Satan did if probation were already closed? God does not allow Satan to do this for the express reason that His followers who know the truth are to be able to stand by it. Their cases, then, cannot have been already decided, for if they were deceived, they would fall at this time into Satan's camp, just as Satan wishes.

Consider the following statements. The first one shows that the plagues will fall as soon as probation is closed.



This second statement clarifies that a time of trouble exists before the close of probation.



Satan figures out that probation has closed.



Interesting statements.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.