Many in our church today are losing their firm hold on truth as a result of their vocabularies being realigned to modern cultural concepts and definitions. Some have taken mistranslations of the Bible to support their views, leading to an entire theology which is unBiblical. When that theology must necessarily, to maintain some consistency with itself, accept these unscriptural ideas, their own opinions have effectively become of greater import than the Word of God, and are held to a higher status in a "higher criticism" sense. This has led to such modern movements as "spiritual formations," the "One Project," and the emerging church movement, to various degrees.

In this thread, I would like to examine the impact of the simple "definitions" that I have come to realize are so very important. We begin learning word meanings in elementary school, but often we neglect to carefully understand the meanings of Biblical words, simply assuming they mean what we think they should mean. However, the Bible should be carefully studied, and if a meaning is assigned to a word that creates a Biblical contradiction or a logical contradiction, we must be extra vigilant to reconsider that definition and to allow the Bible to define its own meanings in a consistent manner.

Some significant words that I have found many to stumble upon, based on their own private interpretations (opinions) include the following.

• Adam
• arbitrary
• authority
• avenge
• begotten
• body
• breath
• consecrate
• earth
• eternal
• everlasting
• faith
• heaven
• hell
• husband
• jealous
• judge
• judgment
• kill
• kinsmen
• love
• man
• meat
• murder
• ordain
• ordinances
• penalty
• perpetual
• purge
• sabbath
• saint
• sanctification
• sea
• soul
• stars
• strange
• spirit
• teach
• wife
• works

These, and others (I may need to update this list as I remember or encounter more), will provide good discussion material for this topic. Please remember to address the topic with each post here, and focus on Biblical word definitions and how one can arrive at understanding them in a spiritually sound manner that does not admit of personal persuasions.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I'll start with one simple concept from the list above which was recently referenced in another thread. The keyword here is "kill."

The KJV translation mistranslated the Hebrew word "רָצַח" (ratsach) as "kill." Only four other times in the Bible was it translated this way, one of which was in the other set of 10 Commandments. More than 40 times it is translated as some form of "murder," "slay," or "manslayer," with a form of "murder" accounting for nearly half of those translations.

The Bible is careful to distinguish between "kill" and "murder." If we in our modern times define "kill" as always being equivalent to "murder," we have neglected the Bible's own definitions and must soon come to one of two logical conclusions in error:

1) The Bible contradicts itself; OR
2) God is fickle, self-contradictory, and a hypocrite.

As I cannot accept either of these, I must study to show myself approved unto God, recognize, and acknowledge the clear distinction between these terms that the Bible itself makes.

To help one see how bad the "kill" mistranslation makes things appear unless one chooses to understand that the "thou shalt not kill" really refers instead to "murder," look at the following verses.



If KILL = MURDER, and one can never kill any other person (and what about animals, or plants?) because this is "murder" and therefore "sin," why would God command killing?

Obviously, there must exist a distinction between these terms. Many theologies have been built upon a foundation of mis-definitions. This is unfortunate. The careful scholar must look at the definitions, the foundation of the text, before building a theology upon them.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The 10C are a definition of God's character. If you believe that God has to kill, then will cloud your thinking. God does not kill, Sin kills. It was sin that killed the Son of God and it is sin that kills the sinner in the end. Christ demonstrated the cause of the second death, and God did not kill Him.

The Bible does not contradict itself when read from a Biblical definition. The Bible says, Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

But we know that God did not "send" the serpents. And if you Green do not know this, then there is your problem. Is the Bible not telling us the truth about the fiery serpents? Or do we need to read the Bible using the Bible's method of writing? We cannot read it using a dictionary definition, we need to read it using the Bible's definition.

God destroys no man. Yet Green, you say God is "A Destroyer". Yeah, I have a problem with your definitions. The Bible is its own expositor. And Jesus Christ is the ultimate expression of who God is. I will follow Jesus, and not man's definitions.

First of all, I believe that my own opinion is of lesser authority than the Word of God. So I lay aside my bias, and look to see what the Bible actually says. Even if it surprises me, corrects me, or goes against my own understanding, I guess I should expect that this will be so at times, for God has told me "lean not unto thine own understanding."

If you immediately start your studies with your conclusions, you will be certain to miss the important steps required to reach proper conclusions.



Alright, APL, since you think you're so educated on the matter, tell me why God commanded killing if killing is murder.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

That sounds like the reasoning I have heard behind the "for ever" means "until it's finished" concept that has pervaded the Adventist theology of hell fire. But, this essentially takes mis-definitions to a level of "it means what I think it means, not what it means." I will agree that a modern dictionary for a translated word may not have the correct nuance in terms of the word's original meaning, but let us have some respect for the meaning of the word in its original context, and not try to rewrite scripture per our own definitions.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Is this going to be another God kills, God does not kill thread?

I think this is a good discussion and I agree with Green. I have long realized this and always stop to look for the Lord's definition of words. It's a great exercise that is quite beneficial.

Using the word "kill" to kick off this discussion is a serious mistake. I've been in a "How God Kill" discussion in another forum where the people are quite polarized and it seems to get very nasty.

I would recommend searching for meaning of words that are quite essential in our spiritual identification or growth.

A good word to look into is "faith" as we use this word all the time between each other with our modern definition, but most do not know the Lord's definition of it.

Even to look into the meaning of the names of places often reveal a prophetic clue or meaning. People's names like Jacob and Israel, Manasseh & Ephraim,all the names of Jacob's children are prophetic in their meanings.

I always look at the meaning of the words in both the Hebrew and Greek language and in context employed in scriptures.

Really? When I did that, I saw the truth as it is in Jesus of the true character of God. *Beware of rejecting truth. I think you have already brought your prejudice to this discussion.

When the Bible says Korah and company were swallowed up by the ground in Numbers 16, do you conclude that God killed them? Or do you take all of what Scripture says on the subject to get the truth? If so, when you read Paul and lay aside you predudice, the conclusion is that no, it was not God but Satan.

When you read that God sent serpents to bite the people, do you conclude that yes, God caused the death of those people? Or do you believe inspiration that no, God did not "send" the serpents, but that He could no longer protect them in their unbelief?

When you read that the children of Israel fought their way into Canaan that this was the perfect will of God that they should? Or do you see that their minds were terribly blinded by transgression and that God never desired that they gain the land by warfare?

What does inspiration say?

One passage will prove to be a key that will unlock other passages, and in this way light will be shed upon the hidden meaning of the word. By comparing different texts treating on the same subject, viewing their bearing on every side, the true meaning of the Scriptures will be made evident. {CE 85.1}

The jewels of truth do not lie upon the surface, as many suppose. The master mind in the confederacy of evil is ever at work to keep the truth out of sight, and to bring into full view the opinions of great men. The enemy is doing all in his power to obscure heaven's light through educational processes; for he does not mean that men shall hear the voice of the Lord, saying, "This is the way, walk ye in it." [Isa_30:21.] {CE 85.2}

The jewels of truth lie scattered over the field of revelation; but they have been buried beneath human traditions, beneath the sayings and commandments of men, and the wisdom from heaven has been practically ignored; for Satan has succeeded in making the world believe that the words and achievements of men are of great consequence. The Lord God, the Creator of the worlds, at infinite cost has given the gospel to the world. Through this divine agent, glad, refreshing springs of heavenly comfort and abiding consolation have been opened for those who will come to the fountain of life. There are veins of truth yet to be discovered; but spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Minds beclouded with evil cannot appreciate the value of the truth as it is in Jesus. When iniquity is cherished, men do not feel the necessity of making diligent effort, with prayer and reflection, to understand what they must know or lose heaven. The have so long been under the shadow of the enemy, that they view truth as men behold objects through a smoked and imperfect glass; for all things are dark and perverted in their eyes. Their spiritual vision is feeble and untrustworthy; for they look upon the shadow, and turn away from the light. {CE 86.1}

These should be sobering words when we study the Bible.

Is this a request with an open mind, laying aside your prejudice? I don't think so. Your comment is already has a condescending tone. Are you really looking for truth, willing to lay aside your preconceived ideas? I'm not sure you are.

Would you rather discuss "the dangerous delusion of Universalism" for that truly is the opposite of death?

Not exactly. This is going to, hopefully, go deeper yet--to the word definitions themselves.

Many times people argue the same thing from two different definitions, never realizing that in their verbal disagreement they actually support the same idea. Until they agree on the same set of definitions, this will never be borne out.

God does not murder. But APL thinks "kill" means "murder." Until he understands the definitions of each (and he has too long supported error to make this understanding easy, or, perhaps even, possible at this point), he will never even comprehend what "the other side" actually believes. In his mind, I believe God is a murderer. I, however, believe no such thing, but he cannot grasp this, for he has not deeply considered the definitions of the words themselves.

Furthermore, other definitions are at stake besides "kill" and "murder."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I take even more than simply the Bible, for I also accept Mrs. White's writings. I define them as "scripture" per the Bible's own definition of scripture. That's another one I should add to the list, I guess. But I think you regard Mrs. White as authoritative, so perhaps this quote from her pen can settle this question: "Even after God, in a miraculous manner, caused the earth to swallow up Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, the leaders in the rebellion, the people still would have it that Moses and Aaron were wrong, and that they had killed the people of the Lord." {1SP 308.1}

What "God caused" is, by definition, God's doing. It's a simple matter of definitions once again. Apparently, some today still think that Moses and Aaron killed Korah--or perhaps they have come up with yet another divine miracle--that God had given Korah the ability to perform this suicidal act himself.



Here again, it's back to definitions. By the Bible's definitions, both of your two supposedly dichotomous statements are actually true. Elle could weigh in on this question, I'm sure, as she has studied part of the Levitical laws that open up one's understanding on this.

Let me give an example. Suppose I have a pet raccoon, and I live next to a school playground. The children love to come and visit my house during recess to see the raccoon's antics. One day, a rabid dog gives my pet a wicked bite, and my raccoon acquires rabies. I keep the raccoon fenced, but a neighbor who harbors a grudge against me, well knowing what might result, opens the gate at lunch time and the raccoon, with a nasty attitude, seeks the children with a vengeance. In the end, five children are hospitalized, and one dies. Who killed the child? According to the Bible, the one who let the animal out would be held responsible, and be punished as a murderer.

If God forms a hedge of protection around His people, as He did with Job, and prevents them from being bitten by serpents--whose responsibility is it when He lets the serpents loose? Yes, the people had it coming for their wayward murmuring, but God Himself accepts responsibility, and this is consistent with His own law given to the people. (See Exodus 21:29.)



The phrase "perfect will of God" almost never gets used in a forthright manner to uphold truth. Please avoid it. The "perfect" will of God never would have included the entrance of sin in the first place. God's "perfect" will would never have required Jesus to die on a cruel cross to save unworthy sinners. We live in imperfect times, and drastic measures must be taken to deal with the circumstances of sin. Therefore, it is not up to me to question God's will. If God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, why should I stop to question if God should ask me to do something for which I can see no logical reason? If you know God's voice, as did Abraham, to question is to doubt.


Those are good statements from Mrs. White, and have their proper place in this discussion. Thank you.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.