Wonderfully said, Josh! Amen!

That's not true. It was neither a nice nor accurate reply at all, being riddled through and through with misunderstandings and mischaracterizations.

Deuteronomy 14:21

"You shall not eat anything that dies of itself; you may give it to the alien who is within your gates, that he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner; for you are a holy people to the Lord your God."

Romans 14:14,20

"I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean .... All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense."

Matthew 15:10-11

"When [Jesus] had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, 'Hear and understand: not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.'"

Conclusion

It is evident therefore, that one may eat as one pleases in accordance with one's ability to eat as might be customary and traditional. Some people can eat wheat, some cannot. Most people can stomach dairy food, a few cannot. As Paul says, "Food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse." (1 Cor. 8:8)

Final Thoughts

YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.
--- Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God

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It's true what Josh said, Christ came to save people from sin.

Matt. 1:21 and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Sin, sinful habits and character traits are bondage that destroy a person. Sin consists of the chains by which satan ties us to the train of misery and death. First deceiving us that sin is fun and good, then shackling us to hopelessness and death.
Christ came to set us free, not only from the guilt of sin, but from the bondage of sin.

When we truly reach out to Christ and accept Him as our LORD and Savior, indeed we will know the truth and be set free.
Our characters will be changed, our desires will be changed, we will become new creatures in Christ.

Some tend to see Paul's lament against those who thought their following the rules released them from their guilt and sinfulness and need of a Savior, as somehow evidence that these verses releases them to live in sin without guilt, but in this they are confusing Paul's words.

It's true there is no salvation in our works, however, a person in Christ will delight to do God's will, their lives will change.
Though there is no merit in our obedience, yet obedience is evidence as to who our master is.

And who our master is -- that determines our eternal destiny!


Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon, or count, yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey sin and fulfill the lusts of it.
6:13 Do not yield the members of your body as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and the members of your body as instruments of righteousness unto God.
6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are no longer condemned under the law, you are under grace.
6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
6:16 Do you not know, that when you yield yourselves servants to obey someone, his servants you are whom you obey; whether you obey sin unto death, or follow obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But God be thanked, that even though you were the servants of sin, you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
6:18 And then being made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness.
6:22 Now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

We are to be God's servants, seeking to follow His will.

Too many confuse this into saying freedom is freedom from following God's will. That is twisting Paul's words unto their own destruction.

A brief commentary on James' verses below


Are you quoting this to say it is healthy to eat the meat of animals that die of themselves? Hopefully not.
Even non-religious meat eaters would contend that animals that die of themselves are not a safe or even pleasurable food source.
God sometimes allows things "because of the stiffness of their necks". If a stranger sees nothing wrong with it, OK, let him have it -- but it's not a good food source.




We need to read that one in context rather than giving it a generalized application. Many take Romans 14 as a generalized recommendation that a person can eat and worship anyway they please and as long as they have some kind of faith they will never suffer from any consequences.

But that is not the message.
The chapter talks about judgment --

14:10 we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Christians in Rome during Paul's day, were arguing over whether they could eat the food in the market place -- much of which was first dedicated to idols in the pagan temples. They were arguing over days of fasting and whether they could eat on those days or had to fast.

Paul stresses that they are to live and to die not to their own pleasure but for Christ. Each stands and falls only to his Lord, and He is the one Judge who passes judgment on his servants.
Each is to encourage the others in following Christ, not picking on each other.
But we do need to seek out the Lord's will for our lives and live for HIM! We are to live and die for Him! For yes, we are accountable to God.





Indeed eating does not cleanse us from sin, only Christ's forgiveness and cleansing can do that.
We are defiled by sin and any pretense that the ceremonial washing of hands or other ritual can somehow change that is an illusion. What comes out of the mouth shows and strengthens the defilement of sin that is within.

Which brings us back to the point made in my previous post. It is Christ that saves us from sin. When He comes into our lives, what comes out of our mouths is different from what it was before we gave our lives to Christ.

This text is not saying eating unhealthy stuff will not hurt our health --
God wants us to be healthy and in His love and grace has given guidelines to help us to that end.

Healthy eating is NOT what saves us, it does not earn us salvation -- only Christ can save us.
However, we are to eat healthy and be "eating and drinking to the glory of God" --simply following His will for our lives --

And yes -- freedom -- good health is a wonderful thing!
If you have good health you have a freedom that is worth more than anything in this world.

There is little freedom for those suffering of cancer or so many other diseases that are influenced in a large degree by what one eats. (There are enough disease causing elements in this world without inflicting more upon ourselves by careless eating habits)
Strangely many non-religious people are realizing the truth of this, while sadly many who have been blessed with God given health counsel scoff.

Talk about misunderstandings and mischaracterizations, was Jesus' point about eating?

No. He was talking about sightseeing, so that one may say that it is not what enters the eye (what one looks at) but what comes out the eye (tears and rheum, perhaps) which defiles a man. Or was it all about the need to honour one's parents? It's such a hard parable!

Matthew 15:16-17 cf Mark 7:18-19

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Since I first opened this thread I've had some time to reflect on the significance of Ellen White's prediction of the rejection of her gift and testimonies. Humanly speaking it seems like the church is decades or even centuries away from officially rejecting her as a prophet. But we need to keep in mind that a crises can change things in short order. And she does predict such a crises. It's called the shaking.

Since the early days of our church we've known that a spiritual shaking is underway and that it will intensify. For those not familiar with the most vivid description of this event by Ellen White click here. This is one of her most fascinating, sobering prophecies. But it is still in the future. The internal struggle she describes has played out in many of our lives individually on a lesser scale but never at this level of broad corporate intensity. However as we witness conditions in the world and in our ranks we can hear divine rumblings that the pangs of the final shaking are upon us. One of those signs is the discovery of her prediction.

Sabbath, September 17, 2016 I came across this statement below that I quoted at the start of this thread. It was released for the first time in July of 2015 by the White Estate. This prediction has never been published and is nestled in among the 50,000 pages that were released so it's hard to say how many are aware of it now but probably not many.

In her later writings she makes statements warning that this is entirely possible but none of her other statements are so direct as to plainly say that it will happen. This statement, of course, doesn't mean it is inevitable, but only that God, knowing the futures sees the choice that the church will make. Like Moses before his death who plainly stated that Israel would apostatize, like Paul who clearly predicted the great falling away, Ellen White makes the same prediction. In all three cases the pattern is identical – the majority will prove unfaithful but a remnant of God's people will always remain. For more inspired commentary on on this see Ellen White, Testimonies Vol. 5, The Testimonies Slighted, Pages 62 – 84.

That this statement was recently released is no co-incidence. God reveals truth when it is needed. He is graciously alerting us to the danger lurking ahead – circumstances that will shake each one of us to the core of our beings.

Another sign that is along these lines is the growing awareness among Adventists that Ellen White places most of the prophecies of Revelation in the future, not merely the plagues, but most all of Revelation 4 to 14 as well. This sub-group within the church is not well known because most Adventist futurists have discredited themselves by setting dates and focusing excessively on time charts. But there are some well known ministers and evangelists who've avoided those pitfalls and who imply by their messages or in some cases acknowledge openly that the bulk of Revelation's prophecies apply to the final generation that will face the final test, the mark of the beast.

God always gives us fair warning and that is the purpose of Revelation which is a revelation of Christ. For years we have known that the Lord is waiting for His people to internalize the message to the Laodiceans and to reflect Him in character fully. If Revelation is a revelation of the character of Christ it must focus primarily on end time events because this is where His character is fully revealed in His people.

Below is a sampling of her statements re-applying the Apostle John's prophecies to the future:


Besides the ones given above, there are several other similar specific statements that when taken together and given their plain meaning place most of Revelation 4 to 14 (including all of 13), in the future. Most of these prophecies (Revelation 4 to 14) also have past fulfillments but according to the prophet, all of them apply “preeminently” to the end. Someone may ask; “Then what do you do with the time elements within the prophecies?”. Like all scripture, we know in part and that's especially the case regarding unfulfilled prophecy. So we leave those elements that we don't understand, like other scripture; with the Lord. We don't discount them and we also don't preach them.

Another sign that in the near future it will no longer be business as usual is that certain neglected prophetic writings are awakening interest. Ezekiel's temple which is described in the last nine chapters of that book is a depiction of the remnant church and the 144,000. This vision is a mother lode of truth for the final generation that is beginning to be mined. We as Adventist's should have made this our study decades ago. The nuggets pointing to a much greater deposit such as a seven day spring atonement are strewn broadcast on the surface and now some are picking them up, examining them and starting to dig.

Then there are the unfulfilled aspects of the seventy week prophecy of Daniel 9. Some are awakening to the fact that the division of the sixty nine weeks into two segments, 7 and 62, has never been fulfilled. Others have observed that 70 Jubilees will be completed this spring from Israel's first occupation of the Promised Land. And since a Jubilee is itself a unit of seven, we have seventy times seven, the figure Christ used to indicate the limit of divine forbearance.

The last notable sign covered here before closing is that some Adventist Bereans see that the Feast of Trumpets, like the division of the 69 weeks into two segments, has never been fulfilled and they see the close parallels between the seven trumpets of Revelation 8 to 11 and the conquest of Jericho. Like Ezekiel's temple, more study on this topic is needed. If we want a window into the meaning of the seven trumpets which Ellen White places in the future, the siege and destruction of Jericho is the closest match in scripture. There we have the seven days with seven trumpet blasts and the loudest blast that brought down the walls on the seventh day appears as a type of the seventh trumpet that announces the end of Babylon and the beginning of the reign of Christ. Rev. 11:15-19.

The silence in heaven that introduces the trumpets (Rev 8:1) is also paralleled in the conquest of Jericho. A half hour of silence in prophetic time is a week of literal time. The Israelites were to be completely silent as they marched for seven days. Then on the seventh day at the sounding of the trumpets, they were to shout.

The timing and circumstances of the conquest should be considered as well. Israel had just crossed the Jordan and began to possess the land because it was a day of judgment for the the Canaanites whose iniquity was full. The men of Israel had just been circumcised and the reproach of Israel removed. The first Passover in the Promised Land had just been celebrated. The counting of the Jubilee had just begun, year 1 of the first Jubilee cycle. It was in the spring, and the conquest began either during Unleavened Bread for seven days or right after it. I'm still studying it.

When prayerfully considered, the evidence continues to mount that we are approaching that time when the Lamb takes the scroll, breaks the seals and the seven trumpets begin to sound shaking the sleeping virgins awake with an overwhelming surprise. It may not unfold this way but this scenario is a front running candidate for fulfilling Ellen White's prediction of “an overwhelming surprise.” If things do unfold in this way we can easily envision that in the aftermath of the first trumpet, we the sleeping virgins hurriedly arouse ourselves, trim our lamps and “at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully.” Ellen White, Early Writings page 33.

I'm afraid I see the rejection of the landmarks established in prophecy as the rejecting the testimonies.

However, there is more depth to the prophecies and this is reality we need to dig into, but to reject the landmarks established in prophecy will not anchor us into truth, but cause us to depart from it.