I too prefer a plant based diet. But, you have to remember that white sugar is plant based. You can eat a vegan diet and have an unhealthy diet.

So, I do allow for good eggs in my diet although I try to keep flesh food and milk out of it. (Unfortunately, living in Asia makes this almost impossible at this time)

That's a falsehood.

Green, who don't follow your own advice, jump at any opportunity to prescribe your diet for everyone else.

Green, have you considered that the example of the family you described going off the deep end is also an example of what Ellen White was saying about those who give up meat, eggs, and milk yet failed to supply in their place nourishing and healthful things, thus bringing the health reform into disrepute? Could that possibly be why she urges the people to be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, to supply the place of that which was discarded?

Nah. Instead, you make your diet a criterion for others to follow.

I didn't follow your train of logic here. Because sugar is plant based and/or you can eat an unhealthy vegan diet is the reason you eat eggs?

kland,

The "that which was discarded" was not, if you understand the context, milk and eggs. At least, that's not what she tells people to discard. You are doing exactly what Mrs. White says NOT to do--you are classing milk and eggs with flesh meat. It is the meat, the tea, the coffee, etc. which are to be "discarded."

Have you rejected her testimonies on this point? If you haven't rejected them, you won't be trying so hard to support a vegan diet--Mrs. White certainly does not. Here is what she says on this topic, and she makes clear what is to be discarded and what is not.



I know of vegans today who are dying because of it. A young man in his thirties died of brain cancer. A man in his forties died of cancer. These vegans had no resistance to the disease for lack of proper nutrition and stores of B12. If I had to fight cancer, I might very well become vegan until I had beaten it, then I would go back to the lacto-ovo-vegetarianism. During the fight, the animal products might advantage the cancer. But without their nutritional advantages prior to its onset, the body would entirely succumb to the cancer. This is the plain truth. Mrs. White was inspired to tell us that discarding milk and eggs too soon would "afflict" us with DEATH. I've seen it happen. There's no reason a young man in his thirties should die of cancer!

Mrs. White called vegans "extremists." In opposing the concept of veganism, she quotes the Bible verse that says "Let your moderation be known unto all men."



I would encourage people to do just that here on this forum, as well as out in the world in their daily lives. Instead of putting yourselves in God's place to advocate the extreme of discarding milk, cream, eggs, and butter; let your moderation be known unto all. To do otherwise is to reject the Testimonies we have been given.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

It surprises me that milk and eggs are being pushed on an Adventist forum.

Personally I do not use milk or eggs in my cooking or eating, though still get some in bought foods that may contain some, or when partaking of food that may contain some dairy when eating elsewhere.

Milk and milk products have definitely shown themselves to be detrimental to my health and to the health of relatives. I could list a number of symptoms that appear when milk products are consumed -- it's a much better life without them.

What Green is doing is using Mrs. White's cautions to be careful when changing one's diet, into a campaign to get modern people to eat milk and eggs on a regular bases.

Remember EGW wrote 150 years ago, when she cautioned that the "time was not yet".

150 years ago people did not have the nutritional knowledge that is available today.
150 years ago people did not have the access to the wide variety of foods we have today.
150 years ago it was more difficult to get a balanced diet, as many people just ate what they had on their farms.

"The time is not yet" -- a sentence written 150 years ago, is used to try and prove that 150 years later her counsel to learn to cook without milk and eggs as far as possible is still not relevant?????

We aren't living in in the 1800's any more -- we are living in the 2017.

Ever wonder why the countries that drink the most milk also have the greatest numbers of people with osteoporosis, the weakening of bones -- broken hips, etc.
Contrary to popular propaganda which urges people to drink milk for strong bones -- milk leeches the calcium from your system.

Allergies -- milk and milk products is one food many are allergic to and don't even know why they have skin problems, gastric problems or even convulsions, sore joints and arthritis.


Here's a study

1.In observational studies both across countries and within single populations, higher dairy intake has been linked to increased risk of prostate cancer (cited in [2]).

2.Observational cohort studies have shown higher dairy intake is linked to higher ovarian cancer risk (cited in [2]).

3.Cow’s milk protein may play a role in triggering type 1 diabetes through a process called molecular mimicry[3].

4.Across countries, populations that consume more dairy have higher rates of multiple sclerosis[4].

5.In interventional animal experiments and human studies, dairy protein has been shown to increase IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor-1) levels. Increased levels of IGF-1 has now been implicated in several cancers[5].

6.In interventional animal experiments[6] and human experiments[7], dairy protein has been shown to promote increased cholesterol levels (in the human studies and animal studies) and atherosclerosis (in the animal studies).

7.The primary milk protein (casein) promotes cancer initiated by a carcinogen in experimental animal studies[8].

8.D-galactose (a component high in milk) has been found to be pro-inflammatory and actually is given to create animal models of aging[1].

9.Higher milk intake is linked to acne[9].

10.Milk intake has been implicated in constipation[10] and ear infections (cited in [2]).

11.Milk is perhaps the most common self-reported food allergen in the world[11].

12.Much of the world’s population cannot adequately digest milk due to lactose intolerance.

There is a wealth of indirect evidence of very serious possible harms of consuming dairy foods, and, on the flip side, the evidence that milk prevents fractures is scant.

As we look beyond the headlines, it is hard to think that we should continue to consume the lactation fluid that exists in nature to nourish and rapidly grow calves.

References
1. Michaelsson K, Wolk A, Langenskiold S, et al. Milk intake and risk of mortality and fractures in women and men: cohort studies. Bmj 2014;349:g6015.
2. Lanou AJ. Should dairy be recommended as part of a healthy vegetarian diet? Counterpoint. The American journal of clinical nutrition 2009;89:1638S-42S.
3. Dahl-Jorgensen K, Joner G, Hanssen KF. Relationship between cows’ milk consumption and incidence of IDDM in childhood. Diabetes Care 1991;14:1081-3.
4. Malosse D, Perron H, Sasco A, Seigneurin JM. Correlation between milk and dairy product consumption and multiple sclerosis prevalence: a worldwide study. Neuroepidemiology 1992;11:304-12.
5. Key TJ. Diet, insulin-like growth factor-1 and cancer risk. Proc Nutr Soc 2011:1-4.
6. Kritchevsky D. Dietary protein, cholesterol and atherosclerosis: a review of the early history. The Journal of nutrition 1995;125:589S-93S.
7. Gardner CD, Messina M, Kiazand A, Morris JL, Franke AA. Effect of two types of soy milk and dairy milk on plasma lipids in hypercholesterolemic adults: a randomized trial. Journal of the American College of Nutrition 2007;26:669-77.
8. Youngman LD, Campbell TC. Inhibition of aflatoxin B1-induced gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase positive (GGT+) hepatic preneoplastic foci and tumors by low protein diets: evidence that altered GGT+ foci indicate neoplastic potential. Carcinogenesis 1992;13:1607-13.
9. Spencer EH, Ferdowsian HR, Barnard ND. Diet and acne: a review of the evidence. Int J Dermatol 2009;48:339-47.
10. Caffarelli C, Baldi F, Bendandi B, Calzone L, Marani M, Pasquinelli P. Cow’s milk protein allergy in children: a practical guide. Italian journal of pediatrics 2010;36:5.
11. Rona RJ, Keil T, Summers C, et al. The prevalence of food allergy: a meta-analysis. J Allergy Clin Immunol 2007;120:638-46.


Another source of information you might consider is
Health Concerns about Dairy Products Physicians Committee for Responsible Medician

I see. You imply that:

• Today, we have all the knowledge we need about nutrition.
• Today, we have access to more nutritive foods.
• Today, it is easy to get a balanced diet--from non-farm sources.

Dedication, I don't know who you are trying to persuade with such nonsense, but it won't fool me into rejecting Mrs. White's counsels. She has told us that when the time comes, God will reveal it.

I ask you: Has GOD revealed to you that it is now time to discard milk and eggs?

THAT is the important question which every vegan must answer.

As for me, I readily acknowledge that I am not smart enough to know when that time has come based on my own observations/opinions of the condition of the world. From my perspective, our fruits and vegetables today are less nutritious than in Mrs. White's day. No vegan source has yet been found for B12, and I know of no vegan source that even comes close to matching the levels of sulfur that can be found in eggs. By the way, are you aware she wrote many of her milk and egg statements in the 1900s? The last months of her life were sustained primarily by eggs--did you know this? She died in 1915, having used and advocated the use of milk and eggs to her dying day.

I will wait for God's signal. For myself, He has not yet given that signal. I cannot say whether or not He has given it to you or to others--that is the question you must answer for yourself. But I can say with certainty that Mrs. White's words on this subject are being rejected by many Adventists. Her prophetic words indicating that they would afflict themselves with death are all too frequently proven true in our present day.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Yes, several years ago.
By health experience not only in my life, but also in the lives of family and friends, and also by bringing to my attention information.
Life is far better without those things!

Wonderful. Your situation, regardless of whether you feel God has given you the "time is now" message, and regardless of whether or not you continue to use milk and/or eggs, does not license you nor anyone else to tell others to give them up. We are told clearly in Mrs. White's writings that milk and eggs are important aspects of our nutrition that should not be given up until God has told us to. I personally believe that this may well be an individual revelation, not a corporate one. Some, lacking ability to obtain these from healthy animals, must give them up earlier than others who can still find good quality products. In my situation, I advise fellow missionaries here NOT to give them up for the simple reasons of impoverished nutrition in this area, a lack of availability of supplemental B12, and a highly toxic environment requiring more of the sulfur obtained in eggs.

Milk, aside from the casein which causes kidneys to excrete calcium, is often obtained from unhealthy animals that were given many mercury-containing vaccines. The mercury emerges in the milk, and Mrs. White tells us mercury causes rottenness in the bones and joints (osteoporosis). If you have your own cow, and you raise it without all the harmful vaccines, this would be less of an issue. Mrs. White never once alluded to milk being harmful to bones.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Another falsehood!
Letter 98, 1901
590. There is danger that in presenting the principles of health reform some will be in favor of bringing in changes that would be for the worse instead of for the better. Health reform must not be urged in a radical manner. As the situation now is, we cannot say that milk and eggs and butter should be entirely discarded. We must be careful to make no innovations, because under the influence of extreme teaching there are conscientious souls who will surely go to extremes. Their physical appearance will injure the cause of health reform; for few know how to properly supply the place of that which they discard. {CD 352.3}

Green, is there anything in that passage about meat?
Green, is she talking about knowing how to supply the place of that which was discarded, namely, "milk and eggs and butter"?
Green, when she talks of extremes, would you agree that she is talking about those who do NOT know how to supply the place of "milk and eggs and butter"?

As the situation was, over a century ago, it was not then time to be entirely discarded.

The diet reform should be progressive. As disease in animals increases, the use of milk and eggs will become more and more unsafe. An effort should be made to supply their place with other things that are healthful and inexpensive. The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable. {CCh 225.4}

Green, is there anything in that passage about meat?
Green, is she talking about knowing how to supply the place of that which was discarded, namely, "milk and eggs" that is becoming more and more unsafe?

Green, ask yourself, what effort are you making?

583. The health food business is in need of means and of the active cooperation of our people, that it may accomplish the work it ought to do. Its purpose is to supply the people with food which will take the place of flesh meat, and also milk and butter, which, on account of the diseases of cattle, are becoming more and more objectionable.
[REPLACING WITH CREAM--586, 610] {CD 350.2}

Yes, it does mention meat here.
But Green, she is talking about supplying the people with food which will take the place of not only meat, but milk and butter.

In all parts of the world provision will be made to supply the place of milk and eggs. And the Lord will let us know when the time comes to give up these articles. He desires all to feel that they have a gracious heavenly Father who will instruct them in all things. The Lord will give dietetic art and skill to His people in all parts of the world, teaching them how to use for the sustenance of life the products of the earth.
[USE OF MILK IN BREADMAKING--496]
[USE OF MILK IN WHOLE-WHEAT ROLLS--503] {CD 359.3}

Green, is there anything in that passage about meat?
Green, is she talking about knowing how to supply the place of "milk and eggs" through dietetic art and skill to His people in all parts of the world?

There are other interests in Avondale closely associated with our school. Indeed, they are really a part of our educational work, and they also require help. The healthfood business is in need of means and of the active co-operation of our people, that it may accomplish the work it ought to do. Its purpose is to supply the people with food which will take the place of flesh-meat, and also milk and butter, which, on account of the diseases of cattle, are becoming more and more objectionable. {AUCR, January 1, 1900 par. 14}

Yes, it does mention meat here.
But Green, is she talking supplying the place of "milk and eggs" that is becoming more and more objectionable?

You are the only one here rejecting her testimonies.
(For your information, a vegan diet is not necessarily healthy. It would include sugar, alcohol, vinegar and other unhealthy things.)

Am I the one trying so hard to support a vegan diet? Or am I just refuting your errors which you are trying so hard to promote? Who brought this up, but you yourself, making your diet a criterion for others to follow.
Good advice. Why don't you yourself follow it.
Please!!!!

Green, is a diet of bread and milk healthy? Or is this an example of extremes?

Green, why does she emphasize "poor" here? Does that apply to everyone? Is anyone here on this forum urging poor people to eat a certain way (other than you)?

Green, are you saying all vegans die of brain cancer?
Or non-vegans don't die of brain cancer?
Just exactly what are you saying rather than running off at the mouth?

Do you know that or are you just making that conclusion up as you have the rest of the stuff, which has been shown to be falsehoods.

CONTRADICTION!!!
Look up a couple of paragraphs where you said, I know of vegans today who are dying because of it. A young man in his thirties died of brain cancer.

So if the diet you were eating led to cancer, you would stop the diet to cure the cancer and then return to the diet which led to cancer?

Green says that non-vegans in their 30's never die of cancer!