Green you keep talking about B12, but your recent examples do not say anything about B12. You just make that conclusion up. Ellen White says nothing about B12, but yet you imply she does.

Please show how much B12 comes from milk and eggs.

Not sure why.

It is a most difficult matter to unlearn the habits which have been indulged through life and have educated the appetite. The demon of intemperance is not easily conquered. It is of giant strength and hard to overcome.
{CG 408.3}

The first great evil was intemperance in eating and drinking. Men and women have made themselves slaves to appetite. They are intemperate in labor.
{CD 149.4}

To deny appetite requires decision of character. For want of this decision multitudes are ruined. Weak, pliable, easily led, many men and women fail utterly of becoming what God desires them to be. Those who are destitute of decision of character cannot make a success of the daily work of overcoming. The world is full of besotted, intemperate, weak-minded men and women, and how hard it is for them to become genuine Christians. {CD 165.2}

No, there is nothing in that passage about meat. However, a close look at the passage does not say what should be discarded either. In fact, it says that milk and eggs CANNOT be wholly discarded. So we must look for more information. In order to have some context, other statements are needed.

Consider the following.



Animal food, the food to be discarded, is explicitly linked to "meat" here.



Again, the food to be discarded is "meats," whereas milk and cream are permitted, i.e. not discarded.



Once again, milk is not discarded--that won't be discarded until God tells us it's time. In fact, this statement says it should NOT be "abolished from our tables." Of course, vegans do abolish it, thus either saying expressly that God has revealed the time, or that they have chosen to disregard Mrs. White's testimonies.



The flesh meat is NOT milk, eggs, nor butter, per this statement. Those represent separate categories. While flesh foods were to be discarded, the milk and eggs were not.



Again, we are not to tell people to discard milk and eggs. They are in a separate class from flesh meats. Meat, tea, and coffee should be discarded. "The time has not yet come to prescribe the strictest diet." When will that time come? When God reveals it. Has He?



kland, the liver can store B12 for up to a two-year supply in some individuals. For many, it stores about six-months' worth. If someone gets cancer having their stores already depleted, it is too late to get them built up by using the animal foods that can help to feed the cancer. When someone has cancer, it is necessary to starve out the cancer--even it might include some fasting. Now, suppose I am a thin wraith when the onset of cancer occurs--what stores will I hold in reserve with which to fight it? How can I reduce my caloric intake, including all sugars and animal products, if I do not have energy reserves? I cannot. So I must eat. And the fact of eating will feed the cancer too, just like it would feed a tapeworm.

If I learned I had worms, I might fast for awhile to starve them out. But this would only be possible if I had enough body fat in reserve to sustain myself during that time. It is disingenuous to presume that by eating I encouraged the worms in the first place. Worms can be contracted in many manners, especially in my part of the world, and it is simply not always possible to avoid them. (Be thankful you can eat things like fresh lettuce without fear where you live.)

Everyone will get exposed to cancer germs, regardless of his or her lifestyle. While it may be true that eating exposes one to more of the germs, it is also true that one needs to eat! And nutrition is important. If you are a vegan, you are not getting B12 without supplementation. Period. But you will need B12 to fight cancer when it romps into your life uninvited and unannounced. And you will find it rather late to then build your critical reserves to fight off the cancer. This is why Mrs. White says a vegan diet will afflict with death.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I would just like to point out something here. Butter is being castigated as unhealthy. Well, do you eat margarine? If so you are eating something that has an amazing process of creation. I think once you read the following link on how it is made you might stop using it. I see butter as far more healthy than margarine just because of how margarine is made. If a person has quit using both, good for them.

https://www.sott.net/article/277493-Do-you-really-know-how-margarine-is-made

That said, I use a lot of homemade cashew butter, and when I eat peanut butter it's Adams, the only brand I know of that still has as its only ingredients, peanuts and salt, and the peanut oil is not hydrolyzed.

I also eat some of the vegemeats, and they are not very healthy foods because of how they are made either. My dog simply cannot eat them as just small mounts of it give him a bad case of diarrhea. So if they upset a dog's digestive system that much think of what they do to ours.

There is a lot that goes into eating a healthy diet. It takes a lot of research to learn just how a lot of foods are made and how many chemicals are used in the process of creating them. Even veggies are not very healthy sometimes in this day and age. Look at all the serious cases of diseases that come from contaminated veggies, and all the serious chemicals used in raising them. The only way to really KNOW what you are eating these days is to raise it ALL yourself, but how many people are in a position to do that? To me it is just a case of make the best decisions you can by investigating as much as possible the source, and the rest is just trusting God to keep us healthy.

The other thing I watch is the alkaline/acid balance of foods. The typical diet has way too many acid producing foods. If the body goes acidic it's known as acidosis, and long term acidosis, even mild acidosis, is very a very unhealthy condition. It can cause severe health problems.

Neither butter nor margarine is healthy.

Use coconut oil-- it's a solid at room temperature, and has a host of health benefits, and it tastes good!

Green, if people FEEL they need some milk and eggs, that's up to them, however -- you are actively pushing the eating of milk and eggs as REQUIRED by EGW in her testimonies. Not to eat you've placed in the "rejecting her testimonies" category.

That is why your posts cause a lot of concern on this issue.

That is NOT what EGW was saying in her testimonies.
What she is saying is to move away from their use in careful steps and not urge sudden "giving up" upon people whom one knows would have a hard getting proper nutrition.

As far as people dying from cancer because they don't eat milk and eggs --
you may find one case of such, but beside that one are hundreds of cases of people getting cancer because they eat milk and eggs. You can find all kinds of scientific reports telling you that the risk of cancer climbs quite substantially for people who eat milk and eggs.


These are all statements you can find on health webpages:

"according to Harvard University researchers
In a study more than 1,000 men in the early stages of prostate cancer were followed for several years.
It found that if the men who ate two-and-a-half or more eggs per week they had twice the risk of their cancer progressing to areas such as the bones.

"They found that cow’s milk stimulated the growth of human prostate cancer cells in each of 14 separate experiments, producing an average increase in cancer growth rate of over 30%. In contrast, almond milk suppressed the growth of these cancer cells by over 30%.


"A leading scientist, who has been fighting breast cancer since 1987, says the disease is overwhelmingly linked to animal products.


"In a 1992 analysis of dietary habits, people who consumed just 1.5 eggs per week had nearly five times the risk for colon cancer, compared with those who consumed hardly any (fewer than 11 per year), according to the International Journal of Cancer. The World Health Organization analyzed data from 34 countries in 2003 and found that eating eggs is associated with death from colon and rectal cancers. And a 2011 study funded by the National Institutes of Health showed that eating eggs is linked to developing prostate cancer. By consuming 2.5 eggs per week, men increased their risk for a deadly form of prostate cancer by 81 percent, compared with men who consumed less than half an egg per week. Finally, even moderate egg consumption tripled the risk of developing bladder cancer, according to a 2005 study published in International Urology and Nephrology."



"“Women who ate one portion of full-fat dairy a day were 64 per cent more likely to die from any cause – not just breast cancer.” — Kaiser Permanente research centre study that analyzed the records of 1,500 women diagnosed with breast cancer between 1997 and 2000

Yes. It lessens your credibility as a moderator when you put glosses on the inspired counsel that can't be sustained and when you allow the topic of the thread to be compromised and used to advance unrelated personal views. I don't doubt your sincerity. Shalom Green.

Mark,

I post as do you--as a private individual. In no case should my views be considered to represent the views of the forum owner(s). Nor should my posts be construed as any more authoritative by virtue of my moderator status here. Furthermore, you may note that dedication and asygo are the designated moderators in this subforum, and not me. As for my own credibility, I care little. This topic is about Ellen White's credibility, and it seems to be fading here. That's disappointing.

Mrs. White was clear enough for those who choose to accept her writings. My point with this particular issue has been that many Adventists may unconsciously be rejecting Mrs. White while claiming to follow her. I see this as one aspect of the fulfillment of her prophecy that the testimonies would be rejected. As far as I am concerned, that point is valid and well within the domain of the thread title. That some of the discussion regarding the point strays from the topic I will not deny, though I will say I have tried in my own posts to keep that topic in view. I am sorry you feel I have compromised the topic. Perhaps a new one should be started addressing the health concerns themselves, whereas I have tried to focus on the fact that many are rejecting portions of Mrs. White's teachings.

Yes, I am entirely sincere in this. There is not the slightest degree of insincerity in my posts on this topic. I have sought to follow Mrs. White fully, diligently seeking the level of balance which she expressed in the totality of her writings. It is not safe to hone in on a single passage and attempt to follow it to the exclusion of other passages on the same topic. Doing this, ultimately, becomes a form of rejection of the Testimonies, just as many reject the Bible in part by willfully ignoring certain verses.

Some here reject Ellen White's compilations. Some reject the works published (at her behest) by the White Estate following her death. Some, even here, reject the Testimonies that were written to private individuals, saying that they were not meant for anyone else--though Mrs. White teaches us otherwise if we will but read and heed. ALL of these are forms of "Rejection of the Testimonies" which Mrs. White correctly foretold.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Dedication,

Your post misrepresents my position. I have not said what you claim. You have often misrepresented me in the past, and I do not wish to argue with you further. It profits nothing. But for the sake of clarity with others, like Mark Shipowick, who seem to have agreed with your misrepresentation, and/or not caught on to what I was actually saying after you misrepresented it, let me make something clear:

I HAVE NOT taught that people MUST eat milk or eggs according to Ellen White. What I have taught, is just what she herself taught--that people MUST NOT TEACH OTHERS to give up milk and eggs, and that milk and eggs, according to Mrs. White, were of nutritional benefit, part of the most healthful diet. Teach people to cook without them, yes--but she is clear that we are not to tell others their duty on this issue, nor to make our own diet a criterion for others. Sadly, some here are doing just that--and they twist my words to make it appear to be me instead of themselves.

People continue to reject her Testimonies on this issue. Sad.

By the way, I am not here to focus on scientific studies. God never told us to follow such. He gave us His instruction through the Testimonies. Let us not give up the Testimonies for a different standard.

Perhaps I am finished with this topic. I have said enough. Reject me--but please do not continue to reject Mrs. White!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green, an example of what Dedication was talking about!

You did not even begin to look at that passage and off your running to some other one to support your views.

I do not know whether to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are merely being dishonest or if you have onset of type 3 diabetes.

Green, show who initiated that teaching. Instead you initiated it. So wouldn't that be you teaching others to eat milk and eggs.

People continue to believe Ellen White rather than personal opinions of Green which he cannot support, cannot even spend half a minute reading passages contrary.

Good advice. Please follow it.
Till you initiate it again on some off topic thread.