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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: ]
#183114
04/05/17 06:44 AM
04/05/17 06:44 AM
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dedication, Before the "kingdom" can be given to the saints, it must be given to Christ. The scriptures often refer to Christ taking the "throne of David". (see Is. 9:7, Luke 1:32)
The Son of God rules the universe with God the Father, He is verily God, Creator of all things (John 1:3) why would He want, or even need, the "throne of David" -- what purpose is there in that?
When you can answer that question, you will realize that the kingdom must first be legally given to Christ, the Son of Man, (for He took upon Himself humanity) as He takes Adam's place at the head of the human race, (see Romans 5:15) and has won the kingdom back for mankind. As the "Son of Man" He stands as the representative of humanity before God there in Daniel 7:13-14.
This statement of yours just made a connection for me that I had not seen before. In Deuteronomy 33:4 it says that Moses gave us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob. That law is specified in other places, but it is the law in which an Israelite's inheritance could be ransomed/redeemed/purchased_back by his closest living relative who was capable of paying off his debt. I've done a fair amount of study on this law and it is the legal foundation for a substitute to pay off a debt a debtor could not pay himself. This is foundational to the plan of salvation for Christ came to ransom us back from he who is too strong for us, and as our substitute paid our debt. We are His inheritance since he bought us, and the legal giving of the kingdom to Christ is Him receiving from His Father His inheritance, as the COI are Christ's inheritance, and he is a Jew who is one inwardly. This, us being Christ's inheritance, is found, among many other places, in Exodus 34:9. Christ, in purchasing us back also bought back our dominion over the earth. You just opened before me another window into this beautiful truth as I hadn't really realized before how it tied into end time prophecy. It is really obvious so I should have, but hadn't. Deut. 32:9; For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance. I hope this helps.
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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Alchemy]
#183115
04/05/17 09:01 AM
04/05/17 09:01 AM
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Deut. 32:9; For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance.
I hope this helps.
Yeah, this is found also in Deuteronomy 4:20, 9:26 and 29, IKings 8:53, IIKings 21:14, Psalm 28:9, Psalm 33:12, Psalm 74:2, Psalm 78:62, Psalm 78:71, Psalm 94:14, Psalm 106:5, Psalm 106:40, Isaiah 19:25, Isaiah 47:6, Isaiah 63:17, Jeremiah 10:16, Jeremiah 51:9, and Ephesians 1:18. The truth of the law of inheritance is found throughout the Bible. The NT authors all saw it as the foundation of the plan of salvation for if you look at the Greek words they used that are translated as redeem, redeemed, redemption, etc... they all have to do with ransom and purchasing. When John talks about the redeemed in Revelation the Greek word means to go to market, by implication, to purchase so to him the redeemed are those purchased from the earth. In Paul's writings where we find the word redemption it comes from a Greek word meaning the act of paying a ransom in full. In Luke 24:21 the word redeemed comes from a Greek word meaning to ransom. The disappointed disciples in that story were saying they thought Jesus was the one who was to ransom Israel. In the OT every time we see the word redeemer it comes from the Hebrew word ga'al, which is tied directly to the the law in which an Isrealite could redeem the land or the children his relative had to sell to pay his debts. Moses ties ransom and atonement together too.
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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Nadi]
#183129
04/06/17 06:36 AM
04/06/17 06:36 AM
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Interesting comments!
It's true -- there is nothing like studying salvation in Christ through the lessons of the sanctuary doctrine to pull so many points together.
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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: dedication]
#183131
04/06/17 08:15 AM
04/06/17 08:15 AM
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Interesting comments!
It's true -- there is nothing like studying salvation in Christ through the lessons of the sanctuary doctrine to pull so many points together.
That's true dedication. I sometimes think people bring up the Investigative Judgment just because it's so broad and deep. I'm still learning.
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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: ]
#183133
04/06/17 09:51 AM
04/06/17 09:51 AM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
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Posts: 2,536
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Deut. 32:9; For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance.
I hope this helps.
Yeah, this is found also in Deuteronomy 4:20, 9:26 and 29, IKings 8:53, IIKings 21:14, Psalm 28:9, Psalm 33:12, Psalm 74:2, Psalm 78:62, Psalm 78:71, Psalm 94:14, Psalm 106:5, Psalm 106:40, Isaiah 19:25, Isaiah 47:6, Isaiah 63:17, Jeremiah 10:16, Jeremiah 51:9, and Ephesians 1:18. The truth of the law of inheritance is found throughout the Bible. The NT authors all saw it as the foundation of the plan of salvation for if you look at the Greek words they used that are translated as redeem, redeemed, redemption, etc... they all have to do with ransom and purchasing. When John talks about the redeemed in Revelation the Greek word means to go to market, by implication, to purchase so to him the redeemed are those purchased from the earth. In Paul's writings where we find the word redemption it comes from a Greek word meaning the act of paying a ransom in full. In Luke 24:21 the word redeemed comes from a Greek word meaning to ransom. The disappointed disciples in that story were saying they thought Jesus was the one who was to ransom Israel. In the OT every time we see the word redeemer it comes from the Hebrew word ga'al, which is tied directly to the the law in which an Isrealite could redeem the land or the children his relative had to sell to pay his debts. Moses ties ransom and atonement together too. A quick question to anyone. According to Paul & OT definition of redemption--- does the redeemed ones have to pay their debt once they are redeemed?
Blessings
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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Nadi]
#183134
04/06/17 09:56 AM
04/06/17 09:56 AM
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SDA
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There is so much to this truth. It took me several hours a day for a few months to really get into the depths of it, and as I said, I'm still running across new vistas into it. It is found throughout Ellen White's writings too. It's one of those truths which you have to dig to find, but I found many, many quotes from Ellen White on this subject. I also have a large number of bookmarked Bible texts on this. Yet one very rarely hears anything about it.
Ellen White in her writings, like the Bible does, always talks about this in passing, but yet it is pervasive in both. There are references to this everywhere but they lie beneath the surface. If you're not specifically looking for this stuff it just passes by without real notice.
In Moses' writings he says that Christ ga'aled the COI out of bondage in Egypt, which release, as you know, is symbolic of releasing us from the bondage of sin. In most places where the OT talks about this specific instance it uses words that directly mean ransom. But in this one instance, Exodus 6:6, Moses used ga'al. I wondered about that until in searching for the why of it I ran across Exodus 4:22 in which God says Israel is his firstborn son. I believe this is why God slew all the firstborn of the Egyptians when Pharaoh wouldn't let the COI go.
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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Elle]
#183145
04/07/17 05:23 AM
04/07/17 05:23 AM
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Deut. 32:9; For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance.
I hope this helps.
Yeah, this is found also in Deuteronomy 4:20, 9:26 and 29, IKings 8:53, IIKings 21:14, Psalm 28:9, Psalm 33:12, Psalm 74:2, Psalm 78:62, Psalm 78:71, Psalm 94:14, Psalm 106:5, Psalm 106:40, Isaiah 19:25, Isaiah 47:6, Isaiah 63:17, Jeremiah 10:16, Jeremiah 51:9, and Ephesians 1:18. The truth of the law of inheritance is found throughout the Bible. The NT authors all saw it as the foundation of the plan of salvation for if you look at the Greek words they used that are translated as redeem, redeemed, redemption, etc... they all have to do with ransom and purchasing. When John talks about the redeemed in Revelation the Greek word means to go to market, by implication, to purchase so to him the redeemed are those purchased from the earth. In Paul's writings where we find the word redemption it comes from a Greek word meaning the act of paying a ransom in full. In Luke 24:21 the word redeemed comes from a Greek word meaning to ransom. The disappointed disciples in that story were saying they thought Jesus was the one who was to ransom Israel. In the OT every time we see the word redeemer it comes from the Hebrew word ga'al, which is tied directly to the the law in which an Isrealite could redeem the land or the children his relative had to sell to pay his debts. Moses ties ransom and atonement together too. A quick question to anyone. According to Paul & OT definition of redemption--- does the redeemed ones have to pay their debt once they are redeemed? I say No! We can never pay the debt! Only the sinless Son of God could pay the debt for all mankind. Yet, Satan does suffer for the sins of the redeemed. But, even Satan doesn't pay for the debt of the redeemed.
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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Alchemy]
#183171
04/08/17 10:36 AM
04/08/17 10:36 AM
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Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Posts: 2,536
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This is going off-topic, however redemption is related to this subject. So please feel free to start a new discussion if you think it's more appropriate, My point is really brief and I would link this to the subject of Investigative Judgment. Deut. 32:9; For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance.
I hope this helps. Yeah, this is found also in Deuteronomy 4:20, 9:26 and 29, IKings 8:53, IIKings 21:14, Psalm 28:9, Psalm 33:12, Psalm 74:2, Psalm 78:62, Psalm 78:71, Psalm 94:14, Psalm 106:5, Psalm 106:40, Isaiah 19:25, Isaiah 47:6, Isaiah 63:17, Jeremiah 10:16, Jeremiah 51:9, and Ephesians 1:18. The truth of the law of inheritance is found throughout the Bible. The NT authors all saw it as the foundation of the plan of salvation for if you look at the Greek words they used that are translated as redeem, redeemed, redemption, etc... they all have to do with ransom and purchasing. When John talks about the redeemed in Revelation the Greek word means to go to market, by implication, to purchase so to him the redeemed are those purchased from the earth. In Paul's writings where we find the word redemption it comes from a Greek word meaning the act of paying a ransom in full. In Luke 24:21 the word redeemed comes from a Greek word meaning to ransom. The disappointed disciples in that story were saying they thought Jesus was the one who was to ransom Israel.
In the OT every time we see the word redeemer it comes from the Hebrew word ga'al, which is tied directly to the the law in which an Isrealite could redeem the land or the children his relative had to sell to pay his debts.
Moses ties ransom and atonement together too. A quick question to anyone.
According to Paul & OT definition of redemption--- does the redeemed ones have to pay their debt once they are redeemed? Yet, Satan does suffer for the sins of the redeemed. But, even Satan doesn't pay for the debt of the redeemed. I appreciate the answer. Let's keep this simple and keep satan aside. I do agree with Alchemy that only Jesus could pay the debt of the world. But that's not what my question was focusing on. The question is : What happens after we are redeemed....that's where we might be in dissagreement. What I see scripture saying is the redeemed ones still have to work(=pay) for their debt they incurred after being redeemed. Anyone who agree or disagree with my answer? Please provide scriptures source for yours; and I will supply scriptures also.
Blessings
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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Elle]
#183191
04/09/17 12:57 AM
04/09/17 12:57 AM
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SDA
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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This is going off-topic, however redemption is related to this subject. So please feel free to start a new discussion if you think it's more appropriate, My point is really brief and I would link this to the subject of Investigative Judgment. Deut. 32:9; For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance.
I hope this helps. Yeah, this is found also in Deuteronomy 4:20, 9:26 and 29, IKings 8:53, IIKings 21:14, Psalm 28:9, Psalm 33:12, Psalm 74:2, Psalm 78:62, Psalm 78:71, Psalm 94:14, Psalm 106:5, Psalm 106:40, Isaiah 19:25, Isaiah 47:6, Isaiah 63:17, Jeremiah 10:16, Jeremiah 51:9, and Ephesians 1:18. The truth of the law of inheritance is found throughout the Bible. The NT authors all saw it as the foundation of the plan of salvation for if you look at the Greek words they used that are translated as redeem, redeemed, redemption, etc... they all have to do with ransom and purchasing. When John talks about the redeemed in Revelation the Greek word means to go to market, by implication, to purchase so to him the redeemed are those purchased from the earth. In Paul's writings where we find the word redemption it comes from a Greek word meaning the act of paying a ransom in full. In Luke 24:21 the word redeemed comes from a Greek word meaning to ransom. The disappointed disciples in that story were saying they thought Jesus was the one who was to ransom Israel.
In the OT every time we see the word redeemer it comes from the Hebrew word ga'al, which is tied directly to the the law in which an Isrealite could redeem the land or the children his relative had to sell to pay his debts.
Moses ties ransom and atonement together too. A quick question to anyone.
According to Paul & OT definition of redemption--- does the redeemed ones have to pay their debt once they are redeemed? Yet, Satan does suffer for the sins of the redeemed. But, even Satan doesn't pay for the debt of the redeemed. I appreciate the answer. Let's keep this simple and keep satan aside. I do agree with Alchemy that only Jesus could pay the debt of the world. But that's not what my question was focusing on. The question is : What happens after we are redeemed....that's where we might be in dissagreement. What I see scripture saying is the redeemed ones still have to work(=pay) for their debt they incurred after being redeemed. Anyone who agree or disagree with my answer? Please provide scriptures source for yours; and I will supply scriptures also. The bold emphasis in Elle's quote was not mine.
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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Elle]
#183192
04/09/17 01:01 AM
04/09/17 01:01 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
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This is going off-topic, however redemption is related to this subject. So please feel free to start a new discussion if you think it's more appropriate, My point is really brief and I would link this to the subject of Investigative Judgment. Deut. 32:9; For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance.
I hope this helps. Yeah, this is found also in Deuteronomy 4:20, 9:26 and 29, IKings 8:53, IIKings 21:14, Psalm 28:9, Psalm 33:12, Psalm 74:2, Psalm 78:62, Psalm 78:71, Psalm 94:14, Psalm 106:5, Psalm 106:40, Isaiah 19:25, Isaiah 47:6, Isaiah 63:17, Jeremiah 10:16, Jeremiah 51:9, and Ephesians 1:18. The truth of the law of inheritance is found throughout the Bible. The NT authors all saw it as the foundation of the plan of salvation for if you look at the Greek words they used that are translated as redeem, redeemed, redemption, etc... they all have to do with ransom and purchasing. When John talks about the redeemed in Revelation the Greek word means to go to market, by implication, to purchase so to him the redeemed are those purchased from the earth. In Paul's writings where we find the word redemption it comes from a Greek word meaning the act of paying a ransom in full. In Luke 24:21 the word redeemed comes from a Greek word meaning to ransom. The disappointed disciples in that story were saying they thought Jesus was the one who was to ransom Israel.
In the OT every time we see the word redeemer it comes from the Hebrew word ga'al, which is tied directly to the the law in which an Isrealite could redeem the land or the children his relative had to sell to pay his debts.
Moses ties ransom and atonement together too. A quick question to anyone.
According to Paul & OT definition of redemption--- does the redeemed ones have to pay their debt once they are redeemed? Yet, Satan does suffer for the sins of the redeemed. But, even Satan doesn't pay for the debt of the redeemed. I appreciate the answer. Let's keep this simple and keep satan aside. I do agree with Alchemy that only Jesus could pay the debt of the world. But that's not what my question was focusing on. The question is : What happens after we are redeemed....that's where we might be in dissagreement. What I see scripture saying is the redeemed ones still have to work(=pay) for their debt they incurred after being redeemed. Anyone who agree or disagree with my answer? Please provide scriptures source for yours; and I will supply scriptures also. I do believe that God has us re-visit areas in our characters which have caused us to sin and fall in the past to teach us to gain the victory over those weaknesses. But, I don't believe we pay for the sins we committed. I believe much importance should be given to how we think about God and come to understand God's attitude toward us better.
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