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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Josh M] #183376
04/20/17 09:59 PM
04/20/17 09:59 PM
His child  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Josh M
@His Child

Your statement "This is the time to be sure that we have received the vessel of oil with our lamps" is absolutely correct. We are very close to the end. Like both the foolish and wise virgins, we just don't know how close, and can't know...


Originally Posted By: Mark 13
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Originally Posted By: Josh M

The parable given is that the servants didn't know when their master would return... In none of the parables regarding the second coming are we given an indication that those in the parable knew what time to expect.


But the servants were commanded to WATCH. Not just to work. And what do you suppose the servant was to watch?

Originally Posted By: Luke 12
35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.


Originally Posted By: Josh M

Again, the fact that the servants were waiting and watching shows us that they didn't already know what time to look for. The possibility is presented that the return could be at various times.


That conclusion disregards clear teaching of Scripture.

Quote:
Da 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.


Quote:
Da 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.


Originally Posted By: Luke 12
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Originally Posted By: Josh M

The Bible is consistent on this point: we don't, can't, and won't know the time of the second coming until it is upon us.


That conclusion is preposterous. The Bible is consistent on this point: we don't, can't, and won't know the exact time of the second coming, but we will know the season before it is upon us. And that will divide the wise from the foolish virgins who wait until it is too late to be sure their lamps have oil in them. They wait until they are sure like those in Noah's day waited for the rain to fall instead of heeding Noah's preaching.

Originally Posted By: Josh M

There are still many things that we don't know about Revelation, as well as many conflicting theories, and they need careful and focused study combined always with prayer. I was thinking just today that Revelation is evidence of God, as it's clear that there's a great truth just beyond the horizon and that we can't comprehend by our own wisdom. No human mind could have produced something so perfect and yet also so difficult to fathom.

The message for this time is to fear God, who made heaven and earth. To flee the deceptions of the world. To worship God only and keep all of His commandments. This message is not one of time setting beyond the fact of judgment having begun in 1844. This is the message that all of us, including you, are called to give.


We are especially under the third angel's message. To fail to understand America's part in the closing scenes of the Great Controversy and to fail to give the right warning message at the right time is to fail to be led by the Holy Spirit when He is sealing us to meet Christ at His coming.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #183381
04/21/17 03:03 AM
04/21/17 03:03 AM
J
Josh M  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 63
Colorado, USA
Luke 12:38 "And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants."

I say again, the fact that the servants were waiting and watching shows us that they didn't already know what time to look for. The possibility is presented that the return could be at various times.

We are given no impression that the servants knew what time the return would be. Thus the blessed servants were watching through the night, not knowing if the return was to be in the first, second, or third watch. If they knew, they would have been described as watching when they expected the return.


Originally Posted By: His Child
The Bible is consistent on this point: we don't, can't, and won't know the exact time of the second coming, but we will know the season before it is upon us.
Yes, and that season is now and has been since the start of the investigative judgment.

It's difficult to call a specific deadline date for the second coming simply knowing the season. The reason being that as the deadline approaches, and the event has not yet happened, that date becomes less a season and more an exact prediction for an exact day.


Originally Posted By: Luke 12
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
You are close, but there's a part you glossed over. "He would have watched" really is important, it's the duty we're given with the words "be ye therefore ready also", but we can't avoid the ending: "for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

This gives us the conclusion that we can know we're near, the signs are all around us after all, but we can't know how near. That doesn't just mean not knowing the exact return date, but also not knowing the exact date for events leading to it after 1844.



The third angel's message, though a warning against the mark of the beast, is at its core an advocacy for the true commandments of God. This message does not hinge on time. It's not a message to give at the right time when the beast makes its move. It's a message for now and until the end.

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Josh M] #183403
04/22/17 01:00 AM
04/22/17 01:00 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Originally Posted By: Josh M
The third angel's message, though a warning against the mark of the beast, is at its core an advocacy for the true commandments of God. This message does not hinge on time. It's not a message to give at the right time when the beast makes its move. It's a message for now and until the end.


I basically agree with your thoughtful comments Josh. But here's one issue that gives me pause: In EW Ellen White says that "At the commencement of the time of trouble we were filled with the Holy Spirit and went forth to proclaim the Sabbath more fully." That may not be word for word but it's close enough to accurately state the thought. So it seems to me that it's important to know enough about where we stand prophetically to recognize both the latter rain and the little time of trouble when they occur.

The appearance of the little time of trouble is the advent of the abomination of desolation and Christ specifically tells us to study what Daniel has to say on this topic so we don't miss it. And Daniel is clear this abomination is directly linked and its very identity is tied to time prophecy.

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Josh M] #183408
04/22/17 02:27 AM
04/22/17 02:27 AM
His child  Offline
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Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Josh M
Luke 12:38 "And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants."

I say again, the fact that the servants were waiting and watching shows us that they didn't already know what time to look for. The possibility is presented that the return could be at various times.

We are given no impression that the servants knew what time the return would be...


I understand your point and agree with much of what you have stated, but have you considered this?

Quote:
Truth is progressive; and those who are preparing for the last great day will go forward in accordance with the accumulated light which shines upon them from the prophecies and from the lessons of Christ and the apostles.RH, January 5, 1886 par. 6


To me that says that some of Christ's parables are linked to the prophecies.

Quote:
The prophecies, so far as they had been fulfilled, had been fulfilled literally; that all the various figures, metaphors, parables, similitudes, etc., were either explained in their immediate connection, or the terms in which they were expressed were defined in other scriptures, and when thus explained, were to be literally understood. GC 320.2


When I study these 2 EGW statements individually and together, I look for the parables to explain the prophecies.

Background [In my study of Daniel 7, I have identified the kings from the earth as Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Obama. I have not found Trump in that prophecy so I am operating on the suspicion that he will not be in office a full year. In Babylonian tradition, it a king was not in office on New Year's Day it is as though he never was.]

In Christ’s parable, the Bridegroom comes at midnight. Before He comes, the calls are given in the parable of the eleventh-hour for the laborers to work in the vineyard. Jesus said that “the last shall be first and the first last” (cf Matthew 20:1-16). Jesus is the First and the Last; the Alpha and the Omega (cf Revelation 1:8, 11, 17; 2:8; 21:6; 22:13).

From the lessons of Christ, in the parable of the 11th hour—the hour just before the Bridegroom (Christ) comes—the first Greek letter alpha (A) is last and the last Greek letter omega (upside down horseshoe also written W) is first. How does reversal of the AW, Alpha Omega sequencing that represents Jesus, to the WA sequencing compare to the five Presidents that I have identified in Daniel’s Prophecy on the eve of Christ’s Second Advent?

The householder went out five times to get workers for his vineyard: 1) early, 2) at the third hour, 3) at the sixth hour, 4) at the ninth hour, and 5) at the eleventh hour (cf Matthew 20:1-6). Five sequential American Presidents have been identified with the omega alpha sequencing. President Obama, who does not have a W in his name, is included.

The first A shall be last and the last W shall be first:
WA = 1) Ronald Wilson ReAgan
WA = 2) George Herbert WAlker Bush
WA = 3) WilliAm Jefferson Clinton
WA = 4) George WAlker Bush

George Walker Bush & Barack Obama are depicted as though they are one
WA = 5)George Walker Bush & Barack ObamA

I cannot see President Trump in Daniel 7 or the parable of the 11th hour. But I can see that he is doing things that Obama would never have done that is preparing the world for Christ's coming.

There is no doubt in my mind where we are on God's prophetic calendar or that as a people we are negligent in our proclamation of the Third Angel's Message of warning.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: His child] #183410
04/22/17 07:57 AM
04/22/17 07:57 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: His child

The first A shall be last and the last W shall be first:
WA = 1) Ronald Wilson ReAgan
WA = 2) George Herbert WAlker Bush
WA = 3) WilliAm Jefferson Clinton
WA = 4) George WAlker Bush

***** STAFF EDIT *****

"There is no doubt in my mind" where we are on God's prophetic calendar or that as a people we are negligent in our proclamation of the Third Angel's Message of warning.
Having "no doubt in your mind" does not qualify anyone in having received, and understood Bible truth.

Last edited by Daryl; 05/12/17 08:16 PM. Reason: Staff Edit to remove that which wasn't a part of the original post.

"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #183426
04/23/17 07:02 PM
04/23/17 07:02 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Henry Hills
or that as a people we are negligent in our proclamation of the Third Angel's Message of warning.
The Third Angel's Message is not the Obama is this, Clinton is that, and "I have no idea what Trump is". It is not when, it is who. And there is only ONE Who. The Third angel's message is the message of justification by faith in verity.

The prophet declares, "And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory." Brightness, glory, and power are to be connected with the third angel's message, and conviction will follow wherever it is preached in demonstration of the Spirit. How will any of our brethren know when this light shall come to the people of God? As yet, we certainly have not seen the light that answers to this description. God has light for his people, and all who will accept it will see the sinfulness of remaining in a lukewarm condition; they will heed the counsel of the True Witness when he says, "Be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." {RH, April 1, 1890 par. 8}

The Church is presented as standing in a self-satisfied, pleased, proud, independent position, ignorant of her destitution and wretchedness. By her attitude she says, "I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing." How many who claim to be keeping the commandments of God are in this position today! The charge against the Church is, "Thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot." But while many may be satisfied with their lukewarm condition, the Lord is far from pleased, and declares that unless you are zealous and repent, he will spue you out of his mouth. But he warns you, he entreats you. He says, "Thou knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye-salve, that thou mayest see."
{RH, April 1, 1890 par. 9}

Who is represented as Laodicea What is the LIGHT? The light is the truth about the character of God and Laodicea is satified with their understanding and needs to further light on God's character. Oh that thy may see!


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: His child] #183438
04/24/17 03:27 PM
04/24/17 03:27 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: His child

The first A shall be last and the last W shall be first:
WA = 1) Ronald Wilson ReAgan
WA = 2) George Herbert WAlker Bush
WA = 3) WilliAm Jefferson Clinton
WA = 4) George WAlker Bush
Shouldn't you use Hebrew lettering? Or is that Greek?

Regardless of the language you decide choose, shouldn't you consistently choose the letters out of their names?

first:
WA = 1) RonAld Wilson Reagan

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #183440
04/24/17 03:33 PM
04/24/17 03:33 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Ρωναλντ

Last edited by Daryl; 05/12/17 08:19 PM. Reason: Fixed it to make it work.
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #183441
04/24/17 03:36 PM
04/24/17 03:36 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Guess that didn't work out.
Ronald
o=Omega
a=Alpha.


(By the way, it's omega, not a double-u as my physics instructor pointed out!)

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: kland] #183477
04/26/17 07:23 PM
04/26/17 07:23 PM
His child  Offline
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Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Guess that didn't work out.
Ronald
o=Omega
a=Alpha.


(By the way, it's omega, not a double-u as my physics instructor pointed out!)


The entire name was cited to show the omega alpha sequencing:
Ronald Wilson Reagan

Then you physics instructor knows more than a professional Social worker who was educated in Greece and speaks the language fluently.

She clearly learned that
Alpha=A
Omega=up side down horseshoe (upper case) and can also be written as a W (signifying lower case)

And you can confirm it <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega>...

The symbol &#937; (uppercase letter)
The symbol &#969; (lower case letter)

That does not say much in favor of the contribution of your post to a deeper understanding of this topic or of the reliability of the facts that come from your physics instructor BUT your sources may explain some of the short comings of your other posts


Last edited by His child; 04/26/17 07:29 PM.

"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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