Though I agreed with you that Daniel 2 has but one fulfillment, I do not agree that "the stone kingdom" is the church.

The image represents the literal kingdoms of man.

While it is true when we read Jesus' teachings concerning the 'kingdom of God/heaven' He is dealing much more with the spiritual renewal in individual lives of believers, than with a literal kingdom to come.
However we must be careful NOT TO CONFUSE THE TWO.

There is the spiritual kingdom that takes root in people's lives.
There is also the literal glorious kingdom we read about in Revelation 21-22.

Daniel two is speaking of literal kingdoms, not spiritual kingdoms.
The image represents literal political kingdoms that rule over the earth throughout the history of this world.
Thus it is only after those kingdoms are smashed, that the literal kingdom of Christ will be set up.


And no, the kingdoms of man do not end with the "divided kingdoms Greece resulting after the death of Alexander".

The kingdoms of man continue until they are smashed and utterly blown away by the coming of the "stone". Only AFTER this occurs will the "stone" fill the entire earth.

The iron legs represent ROME --

"And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others."

Were the "kings of the north and south" strong as iron smashing all the other kingdoms? No, they were not, they simply divided up Alexander's conquests. True the Seleucids tried to get all of Alexander's empire reducing the four divisions into mainly two, but they never fully succeeded and were finally crushed by Rome, as was the king of the south. The kings of the north and south were both part of the Greek empire -- they did not create a "new empire" nor merit a "new metal".

Just like in Daniel 7, the four headed leopard was one symbol representing the Greek Empire both under Alexander and it's divided state, so the brass thighs of the image represent the entire Grecian empire.

Rome conquered all the headquarters of the previous empires (Babylon, Persia, Greek) plus more. They ruled supreme for more than 400 years, and ended up thoroughly crushing the "holy land" and Jerusalem as well.

One of the reasons theologians like to remove Rome from the outline of earth's history is because of the state supported "kingdom" theory.

Ancient historians like Eusebius seemed positively sure that Rome, and men like Constantine, were God's agent to bring in the "kingdom of God" on earth.

Eusebius in writing about his friend, emperor Constantine and his new church-state policies, affirmed these Church-State relationship in glowing terms.
It didn't seem to matter to him that the new Church-State relationship was antagonistic to the expected kingdom of God that had been proclaimed by the apostles.
In the new relationship, the Church would establish the kingdom of God through the support of the State. (That being Rome)
Once this new idea was accepted, it became necessary to change the expectation of what the kingdom of God would be.

That the "church" is the kingdom of God is a strong Catholic teaching, and their view is that the church (that is the Roman Catholic Church) will prevail over all the earth.


The idea of the Catholic Church going through a great Chastisement and emerging purified and establishing an "Era of Peace" -- with the righteous reigning over the earth for 1000 years, is also found in Catholic writings.


True,when we read Jesus' teachings concerning the 'kingdom of God' it is dealing much more with the spiritual renewal in individual lives of believers. That is, the principles of God's kingdom must take hold in a Christians life to prepare them for the glorious literal kingdom to come.

BUT we must not confuse the two. Let's remember the spiritual kingdom is NOT a government type kingdom, but something with the hearts and minds of the believers.
Yet scripture and Early Christians expected the establishment of a literal glorious kingdom of God to come with the return of Jesus at the end of the age. Yes, they also understood that there was a sense and a reality in which the kingdom of God was already present, but the fulfillment of glorious kingdom would only come after the judgment and the destruction of the kingdoms of this world.

But gradually the paradigm shifted to the idea that the church would bring in the kingdom of God, with help from the state, -- in the sense of converting the populations of earth and bringing in a era of peace.

This philosophy is very old,
it was very prevalent in the years when the Advent movement emerged.
It was point of serious study and resulted in the Millerite movement rejection of the "age to come" theory and the acceptance that Christ's second coming would smash all the kingdoms of the world and the redeemed would ascend to heaven to heaven with Christ for 1000 years.

Those who listen to the "Testimonies by EGW will reject the "age to come" theory.

Those testimonies warn against being deceived by the "age to come".


Will we reject them and listen to the testimonies of ancient church father's in their place? Or will we accept the Testimonies given to EGW? That's actually the topic of this thread.

The Kingdom of God/Heaven is the Church, a LITERAL, PHYSICAL, TANGIBLE AND REAL body of believers started by Christ Himself and which is growing even now to fill the whole earth: just as the stone, cut out without hands, grew to cover all, just like lush green grass overtaking the desert.

Jesus Christ (the TRUE Spirit of Prophecy) said so.

• "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
  
  "So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
  
  "Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, 'First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.'"
  
  -- Mat. 13:24-30

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True,when we read Jesus' teachings concerning the 'kingdom of God' it is dealing much more with the spiritual renewal in individual lives of believers. That is, the principles of God's kingdom must take hold in a Christians life to prepare them for the glorious literal kingdom to come.

However we must be careful NOT TO CONFUSE THE TWO.

There is the spiritual kingdom that takes root in people's lives.
There is also the literal glorious kingdom we read about in Revelation 21-22.

The parable you quoted agrees with what I wrote!



Of course, when the seeds of the spiritual kingdom take root in individual lives it is a literal reality that their lives are changed. But they do not form a literal kingdom (as in a governing country).

So we still need to be clear --
There is the spiritual kingdom that takes root in people's lives.
There is also the literal glorious kingdom we read about in Revelation 21-22

And we must NOT confuse the two.

Daniel two is speaking of literal governing kingdoms that rule over the earth.


In contrast, look at the parable -- it's speaking of the spiritual kingdom, not the literal governing kingdom.

At Christ's first coming the seeds of the spiritual kingdom are sown -- many individuals believe the true gospel.
However, soon we see lots of bad seeds taking root in people's lives -- counterfeit truths that at first look very much like the true are growing everywhere!

These grow together TILL THE HARVEST.

That is --
the true and the counterfeits grow side by side till the coming of the "stone" which is Christ's second coming, to harvest the earth.
The true seed is NOT filling the whole earth in that parable.

The harvest is depicted in pretty graphic detail in Revelation 14, and the counterfeit "tares" is the majority.

At this harvest in the parable, the tares are burned, and the wheat is gathered.
'First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.'"

This matches other texts:
Matt. 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

And they will meet the Lord in the air!

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


There is nothing there that says the church will fill the whole earth. That is the aim of the Roman Catholic Church -- but it is NOT the kingdom of God.

In fact Revelation 13,14,17 paints a totally different picture.
The counterfeit worship will fill the earth just before the harvest, and try to force, by law, it's counterfeit worship on everyone.

While the saints (those in whom the true seeds have taken root) preserve under great persecution --they keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. Rev. 12:17 and 14:12

The Kingdom of God (i.e. the Church)

An assumption. And if the church, which one?

Jesus said:
Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God comes not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, See here! or, see there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Yes, The Church, God's kingdom, defined as God's saved people, which surpasses all of the earth's kingdoms, and which only happens after the 2nd coming.

An assumption. And if the church, which one?

Sorry, Jesus Christ (the TRUE Spirit of Prophecy) says otherwise: