"there is no blessing promised for those who deny Present Truth" Then there is TRUMP.

Will we believe the Present Truth that is written in God's word or the "Present Truth" that is seen (that contradicts God's word)?

Since Trump does not fit Bible prophecy, I choose to believe the prophecy as I understand it. By faith, I believe that Trump is not going to be in office long enough to be counted as an American President (according to Babylonian custom). I can only follow the Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation to President Obama.

It is a matter of faith vs sight. And until the Scriptures show me that I am reading them wrong, I will have to go with the scriptures.

You're not being consistent. And the ONLY reason why you say "the earth" of Rev. 13:11 is symbolic of the USA is because Ellen White said so. There are 24 references to "the earth" in Rev. 12-16 (NKJV). Kindly state which one(s) point to the USA.

1. Rev. 12:4 ... [Satan's] tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.
    
2. Rev. 12:9 ... [Satan] was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    
3. Rev. 12:12 ... Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath
    
4. Rev. 12:13 ... Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth
    
5. Rev. 12:16 ... But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood
    
6. Rev. 13:7-8 ... And authority was given [the Beast from the Sea] over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him
    
7. Rev. 13:11-14 ... Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.
    
8. Rev. 14:3 ... no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.
    
9. Rev. 14:6-7 ... Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth — to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people — saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."
    
10. Rev. 14:15-16 ... And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
     
11. Rev. 14:18-19 ... And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, "Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe." So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great wine-press of the wrath of God.
     
12. Rev. 16:1 ... Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, "Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth."
     
13. Rev. 16:14 ... For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
     
14. Rev. 16:18 ... And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.

I put together this list for the impartial judgment of honest SDA to see (for those who have eyes to see) that generally, SDA do not read their Bible. They simply read and regurgitate WITH POMPOUS SELF-CONFIDENCE whatever is in the Great Controversy. It just never occurs to them to verify the claims therein.

But Ellen White was blind; and it does not take much to prove it.


///

With all due respect to my Adventist friends,* you are absolutely right.



*Oh, Wait....I don't have any.

James,

Be careful in your Bible study not to jump to unwarranted conclusions based on what you may think should be true. The book of Revelation takes considerable care to understand properly. It was written by John in his older years, following several failed attempts by the Jews to end his life, while he was in exile on the Isle of Patmos. God had not yet seen fit to allow his work to end, and had preserved his life. The vision John saw and expressed in human language employs many symbols and representations which were not intended to have a literal meaning and must be studiously examined and understood within their context.

I disagree with many who claim Daniel and Revelation are the two "prophetic books" of the Bible: all of the books are prophetic. But they do have a more cryptic presentation of the apocalyptic prophecies, and Jesus Himself states, as if to indicate the need of diligence to understand them, that "he that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." He says this exactly seven times, all in the beginning portion of the book, indicating the importance of the message.

Now, allow me to share my perspective of what "earth" means in Revelation, one which no one here has yet clearly presented.

All 19 occurrences of the word "earth" in Revelation come from the same Greek word: gē, meaning simply earth, land, ground, territory, world, etc. But in Revelation, which parallels Genesis in many respects, the "earth" or "dry land" stands in contradistinction to the "sea" or "waters." The latter, of course, represent people. A beast rising from the waters would naturally represent a nation coming up from a population of people. We know that nations do not arise from the ocean, so the symbolism here should be simple enough to follow.

If waters represent populations and people, dry land, or "earth," represents an unpopulated region. America was once in such a condition. Few people lived here when the first settlers arrived, and those that were here did not have a developed civilization; unlike some of the native tribes of Central and South America. This "earth" swallows the "flood" of immigrants from Europe in fulfillment of the prophecy.

The texts you quote support this symbolic usage. When Satan was cast to "the earth," it was still an unpopulated place. The beast that comes up out of the earth could hardly find a better fit than America, which became a nation even before it had populated its territory. No other kingdom of Biblical note parallels this, for all other kingdoms in prophecy arose where people had lived for generations, having already-developed cities and civilization.

In some usages, where earth and sea are not specifically held in contrast to each other, the term "earth" may refer more generally to the world, including all of the people living upon it, for it is the word "waters" which we find in Revelation 17:15 defined as peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

Keep studying!

No, "earth" is not a symbol for the USA.

When "earth" is used symbolically-- in contrast to a symbolic "sea" it simply refers to a sparsely settled land.

When symbolic beasts arise,
it means a powerful empire or world power arises!
Whether they arise from a symbolic sea or symbolic earth -- their domain is still on literal EARTH.
"sea" just means heavily populated area
"earth" just means sparsely populated area

Also, don't think "sea" and "earth" is always symbolic.
They are only symbolic when in a symbolic context.

When looking for a "sparsely settled land" near the end of the 1260 years (late 1700's) one could look for other options:
Canada
Australia
or some other land.

When reading Rev. 13 the aim is to identify the BEAST that rises from the earth. What nation -- that rises to world power, is being described?

Where does a world power arise, that emerges late in history (around the late 1700's) starts in a sparsely settled land, and grows into a world power?

There are other clues in the prophecy that eliminate those other countries as candidates for the rise of this "powerful nation" --

There is only one country in the world that fits ALL the points of that beast rising from the earth in Rev.13.

Thus we say, the 2nd beast of Rev. 13 is symbolic of the USA.

The fact that it rises "from the earth" is only ONE identifying clue as to what this 2nd beast represents. It tells us to look somewhere other than the turmoil of European/Asia minor area.

Actually we are way off topic.

The 144,000 and Daniel 9

Yea, your right, Daryl. That was harsh and bitter. Sorry 'bout that.

The historical facts:







At that time [1798] the papacy was forced to desist by the French army John beheld a new power coming up.

At the time the French removed Pope Pius VI from being head of all the churches and state [1798]

AT THE TIME ... March 1801 Jefferson sent Robert R. Livingston to France to attempt to buy New Orleans. January 1803 James Monroe joined Livingston and try to facilitate the purchase from France.
April 1803 Monroe agreed to purchase the Louisiana Territory.

AT THE TIME the French forced the papacy to desist, the Louisiana Territory (the sparely populated prophetic earth that doubled the size of the USA in 1803) was sold to the United States by France. Truman (the only American President thus far to call fire down from heaven - on Japan in WWII - came from Missouri which is in the heart of the Louisiana Territory)

At that time the papacy was forced to desist by the French army John beheld a new power coming up when the USA doubled it size because of the Louisiana Purchase from FRANCE.