The title of this thread always makes me chuckle. Is there a Biblical/divine calendar? Of course there is. The problem is finding the correct calendar, not whether or not it exists. The Bible is way too clear on that subject to doubt whether or not God has a time frame for everything He does.

Sorry, pedantry off now.

Thank you! I hadn't thought of that, but it does make sense that the path of the shadow of the sun's revolution from east to west would reveal also it's halfway point in it's revolution from south to north.

Now I agree that the equinoxes can be determined. At first, I thought easier than the solstices, but after further consideration, not really. I believe either could be determined in the wilderness, requiring a day being stationary. I believe the principles in the paper could be simplified that on any day, one could determine if the equinox existed, was approaching, or had passed. Likewise, and even with less effort, the solstices could be determined whether still approaching or past.

I'm a little concerned if you understand the issue fully when you speak about "the four points of the compass". What has the compass to do with anything? The paper only referred to the compass as for an approximation. Maybe you used it as an expression, meaning "the four directions".

So now that we can determine both the end points and the halfway points of the sun's revolution, why should either one be used to mark the beginning of the year? In fact, wouldn't a beginning of the year be more likely to coincide with a beginning of the sun's revolution whether from north to south or south to north? Neither one has any reference in Leviticus 23 nor Deuteronomy 16.

Try and see how much headway you gain by informing some of the wolves among the sheep of such. The ones promoting beginning the Sabbath at "dawn", an undetermined time of your own choosing before sunrise.

'We're not facing the sun, only in the direction of the sun....'

Hadn't really thought of that aspect before. But now it does clarify something --
God's Sabbath is from evening until evening. (Lev. 23:32)
In other words, it's when the "god" Satan has promoted for 1000's of years as the highest god -- namely the sun, goes down that the Sabbath begins. The true God begins His day which is the sign that He is our God, the One who sanctifies and saves, when we turn our backs on the counterfeit god.

That thought is only the tip of a whole wealth of thoughts that emerge from its realization.

What does the fact that someone stubbornly refuses to accept truth have to do with the truth they reject? It has always been my experience that you cannot convince a man against his will. If he wills not to believe something he will never believe it, no matter what the arguments are you place in front of him.

Yes, you're right Gary, I just keep thinking logic and reason would convince them.


I get the feeling I'm one of the few who see it as a big crisis movement within our church. But maybe it has to hit close before one notices....

Be careful using that one. They will quickly point out that's regarding a feast day and not a regular day. They even distort those verses to make it say there are two overlapping days involved there, one on the 10th, and the other midway on the 9th.

However, proper use would be to say, just like Lev 23:32 shows when the feast day starts, other days start the same way. It won't help, but at least won't give them something to distort.

I'm finding they're game plan is to find anything that we have not been accurate in, or we are not sure of allowing multiple possibilities and they will come and say that's wrong, here is what it is.

Look up the Sacred Name Movement and prepare yourself for what's coming to a church near you.

From what I bolded above....

I find the objection you noted as a very, very weak argument. All that needs to be done is point out Genesis and creation week. The evening and the morning were the first day, second day, third day, etc... right on down to the seventh day. Once that is noted they must prove from the Bible that God changed how He looks at the 24 hour day. I have never seen anything in scripture that tells me that God changed the day to run from dawn to dawn, rather than from evening to evening. Until they can prove that they have no logical position to hold.

I would also point out that the darkness, night, existed here on earth before the day, light, did. The light came out of and overcame the darkness. Thus the first 24 hour period began in darkness and ended at the end of the light. So God logically kept the same order or night and then day from that point onwards. He could only have supernaturally changed the order and there is nothing in the Bible that tells us that He did.

I have one more idea on this too. Ask when God reversed the rotation of the earth, for only in doing that would the order of evening-morning been changed to morning-evening. God once stopped the rotation of the earth, but the evidence is completely lacking that he ever reversed the rotation.

And indeed they attempt so. They say, see, it says evening and morning. That means morning comes first.

And I'm like, whaaaa?

I think they mean, God created, then there came evening and then morning. So therefore, morning must have been first which wasn't mentioned. However, they fail to realize, if the day contains the morning, then the next day must start sometime after that point. ...Confusion!

Have you seen this thread:
http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=176117