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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: dedication]
#184062
06/10/17 02:14 PM
06/10/17 02:14 PM
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SDA
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The serious question for us is --
Where do we stand in this?
Is Protestantism still alive and moving forward in lives.?
"Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus" Rev. 14:12[quote]
I stand on the three angels messages of Revelation 14.
Last edited by Alchemy; 06/10/17 02:14 PM.
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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: Alchemy]
#184063
06/10/17 09:17 PM
06/10/17 09:17 PM
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OP
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The serious question for us is --
Where do we stand in this?
Is Protestantism still alive and moving forward in lives.?
"Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus" Rev. 14:12 I stand on the three angels messages of Revelation 14 We cannot receive a more emphatic warning than the one we find in the Third Angel’s Message. God wants everyone to know the result of going back to the "beast's" and "dragon's" counterfeit worship system. The "death" of Protestantism, results in the rebirth of the "beast" power.
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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: dedication]
#184065
06/10/17 11:39 PM
06/10/17 11:39 PM
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I stand on the three angels messages of Revelation 14
The "death" of Protestantism, results in the rebirth of the "beast" power. - Anyone who stands on the "three angels messages" will fall. Jesus said that He is the Rock that shall NEVER fail.
- The "death" of Protestantism is a good thing. Jesus said so. He said, "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you." (Mat. 5:43-44) And that is that.
It is NOT for a one-world religion; but for a one-world humanity of humane peace which Jesus Christ himself approved of and endorsed.
///
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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: dedication]
#184066
06/11/17 02:37 AM
06/11/17 02:37 AM
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OP
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The comment shows you understand neither the foundation of Protestantism or the message of the third angel's message.
1. the three angel's message is all about worshipping Christ the One who created heaven and earth and all things therein. (see Rev. 14:7)
It is "righteousness by faith" in verity. (see Rev. 14:17)
For Christ is the only source of salvation and He stands at the door and knocks, our part is to open the door and let Him into our lives! (See Rev. 3:20) Once He is in our lives, He justifies and sanctifies, He will transform us -- and the evidence of His transforming power is a life exhibiting Christ's righteousness. (see 2 Cor. 5:17)
So the acceptance of the three angel's message is standing on the solid rock which is Christ our salvation.
2. Protestantism BROKE from a "one-world religion" it is the rejection of Protestantism that is channeling the world back into a mystical "one world religion".
Protestantism not only broke away from an imposed "one world religion" it also rediscovered that salvation is in Christ. It taught we don't need "indulgences" and to get a human to grant us absolution. Salvation is in Christ.
3. The whole thing is to go back under the leadership of papal system. Back to old system of enforced unity that exalts man as the dispenser of salvation and places the people under the control of the papal "father", which will NOT bring peace, but a time of trouble of which the 1260 years were just an example.
So the death of Protestantism is also the death of "reliance on Christ and His word", as well as the rebirth of the "beast".
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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: dedication]
#184068
06/11/17 05:14 AM
06/11/17 05:14 AM
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SDA
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But why did the Protestants reject the things they have? It is fairly easy to trace this back quite a ways. In the late 18th century we had the French Revolution which deified human reasoning-- the Goddess of Reason. The French had left God far behind and French authors out to destroy all faith in religion began using mockery, sarcasm, human reasoning, etc... to accomplish this. In Germany during the same time Lutheranism was the state church. The government was appointing all the leadership positions in the church. As spirituality was not one of their concerns they appointed men with academic ability only rather than men with a knowledge of God. Thus the sermons of the pastors had become essays on archeology, language, the poetry of the Bible, etc... rather than on the spiritual needs of man, sin, repentance, rebirth, etc.... The pastors did this as they had no personal experience with God so they found all of those truths to be of no value. As they read the writings of French rationalists they found their arguments to convincing. Thus they slowly adopted the same beliefs and began spreading it throughout the Lutheran church. Rationalism became the dominant idea throughout European Christian church. It denied the divinity of Christ, the existence of miracles, the work of the Holy Spirit, the inspiration of the Bible, and more. By the early 19th century the American Protestant theological seminaries were sending their students to Europe, Germany mostly, for the "finishing touches" of the spiritual education. Thus these students came back with their faith often destroyed and had adopted the same rationalistic thinking. This is why the Protestants in America were so antagonistic to the idea of the 2nd coming of Christ. The rationalist leaders of the Protestant denominations here at once began to attack the Millerites as stupid, unable to reason, etc... for the Millerite movement was a spiritual movement, not an academic movement, and that attacked the very basis of rationalism. We see the further outworking of that rationalism today. We have Protestant seminaries sending out their post-graduate students having taught them to reject the Bible in favor of science, psychology, sociology, human reasoning, etc.... The other thing that grew out of rationalism was socialism. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were products of the rationalists in Germany. Rationalism and socialism combined forces and today we see the results of that. The political agendas of socialism are being taught as Christianity today. Social justice, economic justice, the homosexual and transgender agendas, etc... have taken root in Protestantism. Why? Because a long time ago the Protestants rejected the Bible and now the form of the truths of the Bible about loving thy neighbor have taken the place of a genuine love for our fellow man based upon the principles of God's kingdom and God's love. God's love tells us to stand up for what is right and present the consequences for sin to the world for to let them perish in ignorance is not love. However, that love is now declared to be hate for it cannot be understood by purely human reasoning which rejects the truths of God's word. For documentation of the first half of this post read N.N. Whitings book The Origin, Nature, and Influence of Neology. Google book and author together and you will find it online in epub and pdf formats. Whiting was a Millerite but never became an SDA. His book is often found with SDA pioneer's books/writings. For evidence of what I have said in the second half of my post about modern Protestantism here is a link to a dissertation by someone graduating from George Fox University's divinity program. it is titled "No longer in Kansas: The Mainline Church in the Post Modern Age". http://digitalcommons.georgefox.edu/dmin/54/
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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: ]
#184086
06/12/17 12:33 AM
06/12/17 12:33 AM
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OP
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But why did the Protestants reject the things they have?
It is fairly easy to trace this back quite a ways. In the late 18th century we had the French Revolution which deified human reasoning-- the Goddess of Reason. That is one influence that worked against Protestantism. The French Revolution, was driven by the Masonic Societies -- men like Voltaire. The connection between the French Revolution and the American Revolution is again -- Masonic influence. George Washington was a high rank Mason. The capital of USA is built on a masonic pattern. Corner stones were laid with masonic rituals. Thus America not only has a Protestant background, but also a masonic background. The Protestant ideals kept the American revolution from developing into the horrors practiced in the French Revolution (or the Russian revolution). But as Protestant influence is dying, the masonic side is growing, and America will yet suffer the terrors that nearly ruined France back in the late 1700's. We are admonished to get out of the cities for the scenes of the Revolution will be repeated.
However, there are also other reasons why Protestantism is "dying".1. The work of the Jesuits who whose primary reason for being was to destroy Protestantism and any other strong hold that rose against the papacy.
2. Protestants failure to break with "tradition" over "sola scripture".
For the first point, there is considerable evidence that the Jesuits are on the same plan as the masons. They have infiltrated the "higher education" and direct the curriculum. For point #2 we can go back to the council of Trent in 1562. There the debate was to resolve whether Sola Scripture was the authority of the Christian community, or was Catholic Tradition the final authority. In the Council of Trent the Protestant position of Sola Scripture was defeated and the Catholic Tradition upheld BECAUSE THE PROTESTANTS THEMSELVES WERE UPHOLDING IT. "The Bible and the Bible only," were the watchwords of the Protestants. "The Bible as interpreted by the Church and according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers," this was the position and claim of the Catholic Church. Back and forth the arguments flowed. There were strong advocates for the Bible only, even among Catholics within the council. The Papal authorities became very worried as the debate continued day after day. Then on January 18, 1562 Archbishop Reggio came with an argument that completely took the wind out of the sails of the Protestants and won the battle for tradition over the Bible. "The Protestants claim to stand upon the written word only. They profess to hold the Scripture alone as the standard of faith. They justify their revolt by the plea that the church has apostatized from the written word of God and follows tradition. Their profession of holding the Scripture alone as the standard of faith, IS FALSE. Proof: The written word explicitly enjoins the observance of the seventh day as the Sabbath. They do not observe the seventh day, but reject it. If they do truly hold to Scripture alone as their standard, they would be observing the seventh day as is enjoined in the Scripture throughout. Yet they not only reject the observance of the Sabbath, but they have adopted and do practice the observance of Sunday, for which they have only the tradition of the Church. Consequently the claim of :Scripture alone as the standard,' fails; and the doctrine of ‘Scripture and tradition' as essential, is fully established, the Protestants themselves being the judges." The Protestants had no answer. They themselves had admitted that Sunday was a child of the Papacy, yet they were worshiping upon it, rather than upon the Sabbath day. See note The Catholic scholars were elated, the advocates for "Scripture alone," surrendered, and the council at once unanimously condemned Protestantism and the whole Reformation as only an unwarranted revolt from the communion and authority of the Catholic Church, and proceeded to other matters. Note 1443. Sabbath, Change of, Cited as Proof That Tradition Is Above Scripture Source: Gaspare [Ricciulli] de Fosso (Archbishop of Reggio), Address in the 17th session of the Council of Trent, Jan. 18, 1562, in Mansi SC, Vol. 33, cols. 529, 530. Latin. [ Gian Domenico Mansi, ''Sacrorum Conciliorum nova et amplissima collectio"] [col. 529] Such is the condition of the heretics of this age that on nothing do they rely more than that, under the pretense of the word of God, they overthrow the authority of the church; as though the church, His body, could be opposed to the word of Christ, or the head to the body. On the contrary, the authority of the church, then, is illustrated most clearly by the Scriptures; for while on the one hand she recommends them, declares them to be divine, [col. 530] offers them to us to be read, in doubtful matters explains them faithfully, and condemns whatever is contrary to them; on the other hand, the legal precepts in the Scriptures taught by the Lord have ceased by virtue of the same authority. The Sabbath, the most glorious day in the law, has been changed into the Lord’s day. Circumcision, enjoined upon Abraham and his seed under such threatening that he who had not been circumcised would be destroyed from among his people, has been so abrogated that the apostle asserts: "If ye be circumcised, ye have fallen from grace, and Christ shall profit you nothing." These and other similar matters have not ceased by virtue of Christ’s teaching (for He says He has come to fulfill the law, not to destroy it), but they have been changed by the authority of the church. Indeed, if she should be removed (since there must be heresies), who would set forth truth, and confound the obstinacy of heretics? All things will be confused, and soon heresies condemned by her authority will spring up again. [See No. 1444.] 1444. Sabbath, Change of—Cited in Council of Trent as Proof that Tradition Is Above Scripture Source: Heinrich Julius Holtzmann, Kanon und Tradition ("Canon and Tradition") (Ludwigsburg: Druck and Verlag von Ferd. Riehm, 1859), p. 263. German. [FRS No. 72.] [Facsimile (in the original German)at the link below.] The Council [of Trent] agreed fully with Ambrosius Pelargus, that under no condition should the Protestants be allowed to triumph by saying that the council had condemned the doctrine of the ancient church. But this practice caused untold difficulty without being able to guarantee certainty. For this business, indeed, ‘well-nigh divine prudence’ was requisite—which the Spanish ambassador acknowledged as belonging to the council on the sixteenth of March, 1562. Indeed, thus far they had not been able to orient themselves to the interchanging, crisscrossing, labyrinthine, twisting passages of an older and newer concept of tradition. But even in this they were to succeed. Finally, at the last opening [see editors’ note] on the eighteenth of January, 1562, all hesitation was set aside: [Gaspar de Fosso] the Archbishop of Reggio made a speech [see No. 1443] in which he openly declared that tradition stood above Scripture. The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the church had changed circumcision into baptism, Sabbath into Sunday, not by the command of Christ, but by its own authority. With this, to be sure, the last illusion was destroyed, and it was declared that tradition does not signify antiquity, but continual inspiration. [Editors’ note: This "last opening" of the Council of Trent was not the last day, but the opening of the 17th session, the first meeting of the last series of sessions that was opened, after a lapse of time, under a new pope. The council was in session for longer or shorter periods over a series of years.] Source: Neufeld, Don F., Seventh-day Adventist Bible Student’s Source Book, Don F. Neufeld and Julia Neuffer.—Washington, D.C., Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1962, pgs. 887-888 Note's source at "Bible Light"
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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: dedication]
#184088
06/12/17 01:08 AM
06/12/17 01:08 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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2. Protestants failure to break with "tradition" over "sola scripture". The Adventist church is also involved in using a lot of tradition instead of Bible teaching! It is sad.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: APL]
#184089
06/12/17 03:52 AM
06/12/17 03:52 AM
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NON-SDA
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
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2. Protestants failure to break with "tradition" over "sola scripture". The Adventist church is also involved in using a lot of tradition instead of Bible teaching! It is sad. I really don't want to start a fight here, and with all due respect to sincere SDAs, but does no one else understand these points? The SDA church can not rightly condemn the RCC for holding to Scripture and Tradition when they hold so strongly to EGW, no matter how they "spin" her. The Seventh-day Adventist church IS NOT a Bible and Bible only church. This puts them DIRECTLY in bed with the Catholic Church. Sorry.
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: James Peterson]
#184090
06/12/17 06:06 AM
06/12/17 06:06 AM
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[quote=Alchemy]
I stand on the three angels messages of Revelation 14
The "death" of Protestantism, results in the rebirth of the "beast" power. [quote=James Peterson] - Anyone who stands on the "three angels messages" will fall. Jesus said that He is the Rock that shall NEVER fail.[quote]
The three angels messages came from Jesus and are about Jesus. Revelation 1:1 says so. So, you are greatly mistaken James.
[quote=James Peterson] - The "death" of Protestantism is a good thing. Jesus said so. He said, "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you." (Mat. 5:43-44) And that is that.[quote]
WOW!! That understanding is too far off to offer a good response, but, I will try.
Protestantism was a movement of God to return mankind to the Bible and Bible only. That movement will never end until the Second Coming of Jesus.
I hope I was clear.
[quote=James Peterson] It is NOT for a one-world religion; but for a one-world humanity of humane peace which Jesus Christ himself approved of and endorsed.
[quote] Classic globalism James. You truly miss the point.
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Re: Protestants renounce Protestantism
[Re: dedication]
#184094
06/12/17 12:07 PM
06/12/17 12:07 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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dedication,
You are confusing effect for cause. Had the Protestants not rejected the Bible it would have been their safeguard against the wiles of the devil such as the Masonic and Jesuit influences, and socialism too for that matter.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
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