You have not given your definition of faith. Is it blind trust? Is the evidence given us not reasonable? Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

"being understood by the things that are made". What things?

"Yet God has never removed the possibility of doubt." Why do you think that is?

I will answer your questions here as soon as you go back and answer mine. So far all you have done is ignore them and just keep on asking further questions. So far I've answered yours. Have enough courtesy and respect to do the same for me.

Now, until you answer mine I will answer no more of yours.

To which I asked for your definition of faith. You ask how I can believe without faith, and I asked for your definition of faith which you won't give me until I answer your question about faith, which I wanted your definition. So I guess you are at an impasse.

Stop with distractions. You have ignored every question I have asked you in this thread. You haven't answered a single one. Go back and answer them.

I can give you the same taunt. The reason you haven't answered my questions is because you can't. And there are a lot of questions you haven't answered so you long ago passed the point of being able to answer my questions.

Stop with the baloney and answer honestly and respectfully. I'm tired of your games. I gave you another chance to deal honestly and this is your response....

If this was a formal debate you would have been judged the loser a long time ago by your repeated failures to respond to the points I have made.

You are not required to continue. It is up to you. But thanks for all the "chances". That's very gracious of you.

You may think you're pretty smart, but you're not. You're no brighter than all the Biblical examples who thought they were the ones who were to define truth rather than God and His word. You're of the group who believe the Bible says it but it doesn't mean it. When you can say the Angel of the Lord is the devil, well, you've wandered a long ways away from the Bible, and from honesty.

People who think like you are the reason this site now has so few active members. When it's impossible to have an honest discussion the honest people leave, and that is what has happened here, and other SDA forums too. The forums have become nothing but Babel. They are utter confusion and promote error and hatred of the church.

The ones I really hold responsible for this are the site owners. They set the tone and say what will be allowed. What has happened to Daryl I don't know, but this site was at one time a place where SDA's could come and discuss SDA beliefs in a friendly atmosphere. But, Daryl made the decision at some point that he was going to allow anything and everything, and it has killed his site. It is not even a faint shadow of what it used to be. But, it's indicative of what has happened to all the SDA forums. They have become the breeding ground of all kinds of satanic error to which site management turns a blind eye. I wonder what God will say on judgment day to all of this.... I wonder if He will commend for being a watchman on the walls of Zion.

So, congratulations apl, you have accomplished your goal. I'm leaving as I no longer find this place enjoyable to participate in.

I came back here after many years because there used to be a lot of conservative SDAs here who actually believed in the SOP and the Bible. Now, the vast majority of the few people left here only profess to accept the SOP and the Bible. They only agree with the Bible and SOP when the Bible and SOP agree with the poster's view points, and then they ignore anything that doesn't agree with them. Well, that is what Ellen White said would happen. It is just another fulfillment of prophecy. It is the shaking time, and those who will not surrender their points of view to the authority of God will find their way out the church. Just like Ellen White said, those who will reject the SOP will end up rejecting the Bible too. It's sad to see, but we were told it would happen, and happen it has.

"faith" on its own, is not once in scripture called "the gift of." Further; rejection of this statement would be a clear "rejection of the testimonies."

"Faith" cannot ever be on it's own, as in some ingredient we add to the recipe. The "faith" and the "evidence" of that "faith" are collectively, the whole experience of/with God; as in truly knowing God, and He "who God has sent.". John 17:3)

"Knowing" God does not have to involve "reason" at all, although, of course, sometimes it does. To "know" may not require reasoning, as in when we witness something, and then, we "know" because we have "seen"

"FAITH" is THE evidence of things NOT SEEN. John 17:3 does not really present as much in the way of "evidence," as it does in simple declaration.

Some other things would have to happen to constitute "evidence" of the plain declaration that "it is eternal life to know Jesus." (eternal life starts here, so in many cases, this would be the "unseen" things that faith is, NOT gives faith THAT very "evidence that it declares)

When said "other things" happen, then we are able to present the "evidence" alluded to in Heb 11:1(the following is in small parts taken from Adam Clarke Bible Commentary, and adapted/edited by me)

Faith is the substance of things hoped for

- Εστι δε πιστις ελπιζομενων ὑποστασις·

Faith is the Subsistence of things hoped for;

πραγματων ελεγχος ου βλεπομενων·

The Demonstration of things not seen.

The word ὑποστασις, which we translate substance, signifies subsistence, that which becomes a foundation for another thing to stand on.

And ελεγχος signifies such a conviction as is produced in the mind by the demonstration of a problem, after which demonstration no doubt can remain, because we see from it that the thing is; that it cannot but be; and that it cannot be otherwise than as it is, and is proved to be.

Such is the faith by which the soul is justified; or rather, such are the effects of justifying faith: on it subsists the peace of God which passeth all understanding; and the love of God is shed abroad in the heart where it lives, by the Holy Ghost.

At the same time the Spirit of God witnesses with their spirits who have this faith that their sins are blotted out; and this is as fully manifest to their judgment and conscience as the axioms,

“A whole is greater than any of its parts;” “Equal lines and angles, being placed on one another, do not exceed each other;” or as the deduction from prop. 47, book i., Euclid:

“The square of the base of a right-angled triangle is equal to the difference of the squares of the other two sides.”
Ελεγχος is defined by logicians, Demonstratio quae fit argumentis certis et rationibus indubitatis, qua rei certitudo efficitur.

“A demonstration of the certainly of a thing by sure arguments and indubitable reasons.” Aristotle uses it for a mathematical demonstration, and properly defines it thus: Ελεγχος δε εστις ὁ μη δυνατος αλλως εχειν, αλλ’ οὑτως ὡς ἡμεις λεγομεν, “Elenchos, or Demonstration, is that which cannot be otherwise, but is so as we assert.” Rhetor. ad Alexand., cap. 14, περι ελεγχου. On this account

Things hoped for -

Are the peace and approbation of God, and those blessings by which the soul is prepared for the kingdom of heaven. A penitent hopes for the pardon of his sins and the favor of his God; faith in Christ puts him in possession of this pardon, and thus the thing that was hoped for is enjoyed by faith.

When this is received, a man has the fullest conviction of the truth and reality of all these blessings though unseen by the eye, they are felt by the heart; and the man has no more doubt of God’s approbation and his own free pardon, than he has of his being.

In an extended sense the things hoped for are the resurrection of the body, the new heavens and the new earth, the introduction of believers into the heavenly country, and the possession of eternal glory.

The things unseen, as distinguished from the things hoped for, are, in an extended sense, the creation of the world from nothing, the destruction of the world by the deluge, the miraculous conception of Christ, his resurrection from the dead, his ascension to glory, his mediation at the right hand of God, his government of the universe, etc., etc., all which we as firmly believe on the testimony of God’s word as if we had seen them. See Macknight.

But this faith has particular respect to the being, goodness, providence, grace, and mercy of God, as the subsequent verses sufficiently show.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Is Grace the gift, or is Faith the gift, or both?

Faith that enables us to receive God's gifts is itself a gift, of which some measure is imparted to every human being. It grows as exercised in appropriating the word of God. In order to strengthen faith, we must often bring it in contact with the word. {Ed 253.4}

Yes, Faith is a gift.

Not at all, except when it does? Huh.

But God has given in the Scriptures sufficient evidence of their divine authority. His own existence, His character, the truthfulness of His word, are established by testimony that appeals to our reason; and this testimony is abundant. True, He has not removed the possibility of doubt; faith must rest upon evidence {Ed 169.2}

If the evidence is not reasonable, then is it true evidence?

Was it Mark Twain that wrote: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

APL< if you would have used scripture to explain yourself first, it would make continuing this topic much easier. As per Eph 2:8, it does not call either grace or faith "the gift," rather, that word gift is used to describe "being saved" You misquote the spirit of prophecy to say something about scripture that it does not I call that a rejection of the testimonies

Saved how? By faith through grace. Faith, Grace, Salvation - it is all a gift.

Where is the misquote? Faith that enables us to receive God's gifts is itself a gift