Who actually killed the eastern empire?

Yes, the final blow was given by Muslim armies but who actually killed the eastern empire?

Consider:
1054 A.D., marks the great schism -- the Byzantium Christians no longer considered the pope the head of their churches.

Papal Roman wrath was against all who refused to consider the pope the head!

So what happened?

In 1147 the second crusade marched through the Eastern Roman Empire, plundering on their way.

Had the Christian countries united against the Turks, the Turks would not of had a chance to establish themselves as they did. The Christian nations would have repelled them and Constantinople would have stood strong.

But that was not the reality. The Eastern Empire suffered as much, if not more, as the Turks under the crusades!

The great blow came with fourth crusade.
April 13, 1204 instead of marching against the Turks, the crusade leaders responded to the bribes of a young man whose father had usurped the Byzantine throne only to be removed, this young man, Alexius, promised the crusaders money and that he would bring the Byzantine Empire back under the authority of the POPE, if they gave him the throne.

So the crusaders turned on Constantinople, besieged and conquered it, placing Alexius on the throne. But Alexius could not pay the bribe, so the crusaders pillaged and ravaged Constantinople. They seized both the city and the empire and placed a Latin emperor on the throne in Constantinople. Byzantium had lost its central government which had successfully resisted its enemies so many time before.

For more than eight centuries successive Byzantine emperors had ruled this empire, but this had been swept aside by the armies of the Fourth Crusade-- the holy warriors of the Catholic Church. Now a northern European, named Baldwin, sat on a throne with western knights and soldiers acclaiming him king, while the Byzantine residents were either dead or fleeing the horrors the western crusaders had so brutally wrecked upon their great city.

But the Byzantine empire was not yet dead-- in 1261-1328 a strong leader, Michael VIII, began making headway in restoring the eastern empire. However, his advantage turned when Charles, a younger brother of Louis IX of France, and a devotee of the Papacy joined up with the deposed Latin Emperor, Baldwin, with the ambition of retaking Constantinople. As the empire's enemies multiplied, Pope Gregory X asked Michael VIII to negotiate a reunion of the two churches and he would restrain Charles's crusade against Constantinople. Michael agreed, but was not supported by the eastern church leaders. He appointed a new patriarch, John Beccus, who persecuted enough to bring the church under "outward control", but most eastern Christians rejected the union. Michael went on to recapture more territory and rebuild the empire.

Back in the west, Charles made fresh plans for a crusade against Byzantium, with the help of the Pope on the basis that Michael VIII had failed to achieve a genuine reunion of churches. But Sicily rose in revolt against Charles and Charles had to abandon his crusade.
Michael VIII was the last strong ruler, corruption in the Byzantine empire itself as well as the many attacks from all sides, were destroying it.

Why, all this history?

It reveals Papal policy. They wanted all Christianity under their control. During this time they launched some of the bloodiest crusades against Christians, brutally killing thousands. We already mentioned the wars against the Waldensians. The Albigensian Crusade (1209-1229) is an example of a brutal 20-year military campaign initiated by the Roman Catholic Church to eliminate a Christian group which the Roman Catholic hierarchy considered heretical. The violence inflicted was extreme even by medieval standards. Lands were confiscated and given to France.

It was the crusades that ravished Constantinople with terrible brutality, not only killing, but also smashing and plundering.
As one historian, Runciman in "History of the Crusades III" (p. 474 and quoted by Philips in "The fourth Crusade" xiv) wrote: The harm done by the crusaders to Islam was small in comparison with that done to the Eastern Christians."

And with all you have just written, who now occupies that territory? Islam.

This is about the trumpets --
and how they support the three angels messages.

My posts were discussing the first four trumpets.
And now we are into the fifth trumpet. --
Discussing the first 600 years after Papal Rome and the Muslim power came into being.
Next we will discuss the 150 years of the fifth trumpet.

But a quick answer --
Constantinople is under Turkish rule now, because, for one reason, that's what the papacy wanted.

After the First World War, during which the Ottoman empire was finally, fully defeated, the Armistice of Mudros decreed that Istanbul (Constantinople) would be occupied by Allied Forces. On 13 November 1918, the Occupation of Constantinople by Allied forces began, ending on 23 September 1923.

The plans for Constantinople were a matter of much debate at the time. The Treaty of Sevres, envisioned Constantinople and the straits as a semi-international zone.

There was talk of giving Russia (which was the "new" orthodox church stronghold since the time Constantinople was lost) some control and again making Constantinople the center of the Orthodox Christianity.
There was also talk of the Greeks having control of the city.

But some very influential letters were written urging that the occupation cease and the city be given to the new Turkish government.

Some of the more influential letters came from the papacy.
The thought of giving their great rival in religious matters (the orthodox church) their capital back, was not a welcomed proposition.

Ummm, gonna have to help me out here as post #4201 is ...well, that just doesn't make sense.... and post #184201 is by Alchemy.

I think she said she has posted 4,201 times, and the answer is in there - some where. She is now up to 4,210.
:-)

Answer was in my 4201st post (not 4201 times) -- which is actually #185206 on the forum.

Justinian, codified Roman law, and in it he included


I was going to share more, but ended up reading Justinian's law codes - especially the many laws dealing with religion. Wow -- the Roman law has no room for freedom of religion, and even details how the state religion must be carried out -- convert or lose all your property, be exiled or worse. Anyone who helps or hides a so called "heretic" is likewise condemned.

I think she made a mistake in which number she gave. For how would one know which is her 4,201st post?

I'm still not understanding how that post answers the question as to why some of the time you can say angels follow other angels in chronological order and other times it's a "transparency". For if it's transparencies, then it's the same question, how do you determine order from one transparency to another? My answer is the same, you can't.

Sequential order is seen in
The seven churches -- they are given in order. (One transparency)
The seven seals -- they are given in order. (A second transparency that is layered over the first)
The seven trumpets -- they are given in order. (A third transparency layered over the first)
Five angels with special warning messages to the people of earth follow in sequence --
the first when the beast gains it's power, (about 538 A.D.)
three angels, warning that the beast revives and gains a strong partner, we should worship God, not the beast and his image, God is judging who we are actually worshipping, the one we obey is our master (starting about 1840 to end)
the last warning angel gives a stronger warning reinforcing the other three (about now).




34 -150......150-312......312-538........538-1520....1520-1798......1798-1850......1850-20??
Ephesus,.... Smyrna,.... Pergamum,.... Thyatira,.... Sardis,...... Philadelphia,.... Laodicea
White horse, Red horse, black horse,.. pale horse,... 5th seal....... 6th seal....................7th seal
.......................Trumpet angels 1-4.. { } trumpet angels 5-6 ..timelines end ..trumpet angel 7
.......................................................................................last church is born
dragonworks through imperial Rome.....through beast power..........................beast & image of beast
.........................................................................................................144,000 stand with Christ
..................................................................................... (3 angel's message)...harvest of the earth.
.................................................................................................................seven last plagues
......................................................................................................... Rev. 18:1

The first of the "warning angels" appears between the fourth and fifth trumpet, Rome has fallen, but papal Rome rises.
The three "warning angels" of Revelation 14 appear at a time when it seems the "beast" has been defeated, and the angel's are loudly proclaiming, no, he will revive and gain a powerful partner, beware, worship God, don't follow this religious counterfeit.
The next "warning angel" of Rev. 18 reinforces the message with great urgency just before the plagues come.