Mark, I understood you to be saying "the 10 horns or kings...are the Protestant denominations."

Do these quotes really confirm what you believe is something that Ellen White clearly said?

Protestantism Unites with the Papacy, June 28

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. Revelation 17:12, 13. Mar 187.1

As we approach the last crisis, it is of vital moment that harmony and unity exist among the Lord's instrumentalities. The world is filled with storm and war and variance. Yet under one head—the papal power—the people will unite to oppose God in the person of His witnesses. Mar 187.2

What is it that gives its kingdom to this power? Protestantism, a power which, while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb and to be allied to Heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon. It is moved by a power from beneath." Mar 187.3

not clear at all from that selection. Am I missing the smoking gun?

Maranatha 187 is being quoted. Why not go to the ORIGINAL source for what EGW wrote? If one does and read it in context, you will see she is talking about how we run our institutions and that we are not to do so after the kingdom of the world. One tries to determine some magic calendar and nail down a time. Another tries to nail down specific names of people. EGW tries to tell us to follow God's ways and not the world. Go back to the original source where the Maranatha quotes are taken.

Henry, yesterday evening I had another look at this after reading Dedication's comment and I've modified my view. I think hers is the better understanding. I summarized my thoughts at the bottom of page four about two hours before your post so maybe you missed it. Briefly, where the quote says Protestantism gives its power to the beast it is referring to the political power of Protestant nations that will align themselves with the beast. The 10 horns are therefore more likely 10 Protestant nations under the control of Protestant churches.

We know that she is referring to the ten horns because although she doesn't reference them directly, she quotes the exact scripture phrases that refer to the horns and immediately above her comment she quotes this scripture in full as well. There are one or two other quotes that affirm this one if I remember right.

I wasn't sure if this post was replying to me or Mark. By the flow, it does appear it is for me...sorry if it is not.

. I agree. As I said in my previous post, Rev 17 is an expansion of Rev 13.

Both chapters deal with two beasts or main character.

We all can agree that the first BEAST from the sea of Rev 13 identity is the RRC church.

Where we disagree is the identity of who is the 2nd BEAST from the earth. I see from previous unfulfilled prophecies and history since 1800s that it is the combined nation of Judah-Essau who are both Zionist in Spirit and purposes meaning they are no longer waiting for God to fulfilled prophecies. They are fulfilling the prophesies themselves and wants to bring about the war of Armageddon thinking they can destroy most on earth and get to rule & inherit the earth. They truly believe they are the chosen ones and their god has given the inheritance to them.

SDA interpretation says the 2nd BEAST from the earth is protestantism. I don't see any scriptures or prophecies supporting this. Nor do I see this in past history. History is the fulfillment of prophecies. For sure protestantism has a role in the final conflict but they are no where giving dominion in prophesies...whereas I can show nearly 10 prophecies saying a return of dominion giving to Judah-Essau (Edom) at the end of time.


. I never yet referred to this text section, so probably you got that from dedication or Mark.

I agree with you that deriving to the conclusion that it is protestantism from this single text is far from being clear and a valid support.

Coming back to your point, it is clear to me that woman-harlot-false bride in Rev 17 who further identifies the 2nd BEAST of Rev 13 is riding the 1st BEAST coming from the sea. It is the 2nd BEAST that has power over the 1st because it is riding it. Not the other way around.

Mark,

Thank you for attempting to give an answer. But sorry to say... my questions were not answered. No evidence has been presented that would hold up under close examination to make the case for having the 8 heads being Protestant churches as it is supposed that EGW taught. If she rally taught that, she would have nailed it down.

It is written 5 are fallen, one is, and one comes for a short space. And the 8th is of the seven. Consider this quote from EGW.



If Satan appears as the human being described above who is one of the 7 (he is the 8th king according to the context). When Satan personates this dead king, he can easily say "touch me feel me... this is my spiritual body, my body is in its grave." Then he can leave for a while ...claiming to go to the Father in order to send the Comforter and then Satan can return personating Jesus Christ.

Remember the two last delusions are Sunday sacredness and the state of the dead. So what king (human being) would Satan personate?

But without knowing who's who in Revelation 17, can our understanding mature in time to avoid being deceived?

Then let Revelation 13:13 identify him. " he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

Solomon says there is nothing new under the sun.

What nation rained fire down from the sky?



What nation is threatening to do it again?



History confirms Bible prophecy! The second beast links to the USA.

I agree with your post above.


Yes the USA has a major role but I would rephrase the bolded to say "the USA is linked to the second BEAST.". The question to ask is who is pulling the strings of the USA?

There's plenty of other text that further identify this 2nd BEAST and most doesn't point to the USA.

Plus what do you do with all the prophesies that points to a return of dominion of the nation of Judah-Essau(Edom) at the end of times. We cannot just chuck them away...

Anyone interested in seeing them?

Elle, this is where:
Not the first beast. (well, depending upon which you call the first)

It's described the same as the one in Rev 12.
Re 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Re 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
That's where I'm saying you're grouping them together. I did use, incorrectly, "All", but that wasn't my first comment. It was,

I'm didn't follow where Mark mentioned anything about 8 heads.

???? Rev 13:1 which is the first BEAST of the sea which we all know is the RCC...is identified as having 7 heads and 10 horns.

I didn't want to go in Rev 12 and keep things simple by comparing the two characters defined in Rev 13 and 17. Chapter 17 further describe the judgment over the two beasts of Rev 13.

Kland if I'm not wrong you seem to identify more than two. I see the dragon as Satan, not a BEAST that has received dominion over the earth like the two Beasts reveal in Rev 13 and 17. Daniel only saw the first BEAST of the sea. John was given further Revelation by seeing the second one.

There's no more than two beast Kingdoms receiving the dominion after Christ death Before the dominion is transfered to the Saints of the most High.

Ok let's examine Rev 12.

The first Gospel expressed in the Constellation

First thing to note John saw" a great sign appear in heaven" v.1
This is the constellation of Virgo that every year it appears from Aug 23 to Sept 22. But it is rarely passing by in conjunction of the moon under her feet.

I know SDAs doesn't study the signs in the heaven bc they equate it as things from the devil... For sure the devils has corrupted the meaning of these signs like he corrupted any other truths. Just bc satan always does this, it doesnt mean that God didnt use it to reveal the gospel story from the beginning of this earth to all the inhabitants of the world. (Rom 10:18)

Gen 1:14: God put signs in the heavens
Ps 147:4 God names the sstars
Ps 19:1-4 "1 The heavens are telling of the glory of God; and their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. 2 Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. 3 There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard. 4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, and their utterances to the end of the world..."

I have studied a little of the virgo constellation in the time of the birth of Jesus. I thought it was facinating. Anyone interested to look into it further; There's 3 good books out there -- (E. Raymond Capt’s book, The Glory of the Stars; Joseph Seiss’ book, The Gospel in the Stars; and Dr. E. W. Bullinger’s book, The Witness of the Stars.)

Virgo

Rev 12:1-5 As we know the story of Virgo and her son and the red dragon has manifested itself on earth in the time of the birth of Christ. King Herod was a half Edomite. Gen 36:1 says that Essau is also called Edom. The meaning of Edom is red. So King Herod was playing the role (or inspired by the red dragon) of the red dragon here.

Rev 12:6 the woman that fled into the wilderness takes place later when the early Church get persecuted by the RCC for 1260 years. But this was not the first time this happened. it also happened earlier with Israel who was the first Church that God led them in the wilderness. They were immediately attack by Amaleckites. Amalek was the grandson of Essau (Gen 36:12) who was an Edomite. So the Amaleckites played the role of the red dragon there also.

And I believe there will be another fulfillment of this at the end time...before the Saints of the most high received the dominion and their inheritance as prophecied by Paul in Gal 4.

Gal 4:30 "Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman".

Two Woman : Andromeda and Cassiopeia

Gal 4:30 is quoting Gen 21:10. In the signs of the heavens in the constellations we also have the story of these two women. The first is Andromeda, the chained woman in bondage, who represents Israel-Hagar under the Old Covenant. The second is Cassiopeia, the woman set free and enthroned, who represents Israel-Sarah under the New Covenant.

The Wilderness

Even the Saints of the most high started by being a bond-woman that needed to go thru the wilderness experienced to get refined thru the persecution coming from the red dragon. Rev 12:10 further identifies him as the accuser of the brethrens. Satan accuses us in the heavenly court, but he lost his case and prevail not and found no place in the heavenly court anymore (v.8); thus was cast down on earth.(v.9).

The Harlot

We also have the prophecy of Hosea who like God has married a harlot. God married israel at the Mt of Sinai. God divorce her later (Hos 2:2; Jer 3:8) and cast her out of the homeland via the Assyrian captivity into the wilderness Hos 2:14. It is in the wilderness that the Lord discipline us and speaks to us kindly. Hos 2:16,20 talks about remarrying her. The wilderness experience gives us a profound change where we move from an old covenant marriage (=the bondwoman) to a new covenant marriage (=the free woman).

So I believe the same scenario will happen with the judgment of God against the whore and the Scarlet BEAST that she rides in Rev 17. God judgments are always correctional that eventually restores the individual. So both the whore and the beast of Rev 17 will be restored after being cast out in the wilderness.

These are the types that God set up in the constellations, the Torah, and the prophets. These types gets replayed several times throught out the ages until the complete fulfillment of the plan of God according to the New covenant where God alone vows to write all His laws into our heart and transforms us from a whore to a virgin and remarries us all.

Conclusion

Despite prophecies get repeated with different players fulfilling the role of the woman in the wilderness and the dragon; this is different then having only two BEAST Empires that God gave dominion on the earth after Christ death.

There's only two. No more. Rev 13 and 17 reveals them both. It wouldn't be incorrect to say that they both get their inspiration from Satan; but I wouldn't clump them together or consider Satan as another BEAST receiving some dominion on the earth for a set time as equals to the two BEAST Empires.

There's two and we can all identify the one that comes from the sea (or the abyss); but we still failed to properly identifying the 2nd one coming from the earth that would fit all the description given in scriptures.