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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: His child] #186375
04/07/18 02:03 PM
04/07/18 02:03 PM
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JAK  Offline
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Originally Posted By: His child
Can God place the seal of God on those who have not been Judged? Thus the Judgment Hour must end before the final sealing commences.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," (NIV)


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #186378
04/07/18 08:55 PM
04/07/18 08:55 PM
His child  Offline
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Quote:
In the parable of the ten virgins, Matthew 25, the experience of Adventists is illustrated by the incidents of an Eastern marriage. "Then shall the kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom." "While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept." The wide-spread movement under the proclamation of the first message, answered to the going forth of the virgins, while the passing of the time of expectation, the disappointment, and the delay, were represented by the tarrying of the bridegroom. After the definite time had passed, the true believers were still united in the belief that the end of all things was at hand; but it soon became evident that they were losing, to some extent, their zeal and devotion, and were falling into the state denoted in the parable by the slumbering of the virgins during the tarrying time. {4SP 242.3}


The definite time cited in the First Angel's Message is the HOUR.
That was from 22 October 1844 to 22 February 1928.
Then came the tarrying time between the ending of the HOUR for the Judgment of the DEAD (22 February 1928) to the beginning of the HOUR for the Judgment of the LIVING (14 October 1929).

The Time allotted for the repetition of the First angel's Message announcing the Judgment of the LIVING has ended is also one HOUR.

Quote:
[Revelation 18:1, 2, 4, quoted.] This scripture points forward to a time when the announcement of the fall of Babylon, as made by the second angel of Revelation 14 (verse 8), is to be repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the various organizations that constitute Babylon, since that message was first given, in the summer of 1844. . . . These announcements, uniting with the third angel's message, constitute the final warning to be given to the inhabitants of the earth. . . . {LDE 199.2}


Quote:
The whole earth is to be lightened with the glory of the Lord. The pure in heart shall see God. It is those who are following the Lamb whithersoever He goeth that will receive power from that angel that came down from heaven "having great power." The first message is to be repeated proclaiming the second advent of Christ to our world. The second angel's message is to be repeated, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies" [Revelation 18:2, 3].



The Judgment HOUR of the LIVING began on the Day of Atonement 1928 (14 October 1929) the HOUR (83 years 4 months) ended 14 February 2013.
Thus the final tarrying time began in 2013 in which the sealing of the saints is to be accomplished AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN JUDGED in preparation for the LATTER RAIN, the Mark of the Beast, and THEN Christ is to cease pleading for His people. At which time He will leave the sanctuary.

Note the sequencing NUMBERS ADDED in the quote that follows.

Quote:
If they choose to corrupt their ways before the Lord, defile their own bodies and commit self-murder, they can do so; but they should remember that [1] the judgment is to sit, and the books are to be opened, and they are to be judged out of those things which are written in the books, according to their works. What a fearful, spotted record will be opened before them, of their secret thoughts, and vile acts. [2] Sentence is pronounced upon them, and they are shut out from the city of God, with the ungodly, and miserably perish with the wicked. {SA 80.1}
Now is the time of preparation. None need to expect that God will do the work of preparing and fitting them up, without their efforts. It is for them to work the works of righteousness, and crowd all the right-doing they can into [3] the little space of time allotted to them before probation closes, that they may have a clean record in Heaven. I close with the entreaty of the prophet, “Turn ye, turn ye, from your evil ways; for why will ye die?” Ezekiel 33:11. E. G. W. {SA 80.2}


Quote:
As the time of their probation was closing, the antediluvians gave themselves up to exciting amusements and festivities. Those who possessed influence and power were bent on keeping the minds of the people engrossed with mirth and pleasure, lest any should be impressed by the last solemn warning. Do we not see the same repeated in our day? While God's servants are giving the message that the end of all things is at hand, the world is absorbed in amusements and pleasure seeking. There is a constant round of excitement that causes indifference to God and prevents the people from being impressed by the truths which alone can save them from the coming destruction. {AH 524.2}


Quote:
All are now deciding their eternal destiny. Men need to be aroused to realize the solemnity of the time, the nearness of the day when human probation will be ended. Decided efforts should be made to bring the message for this time prominently before the people. The third angel is to go forth with great power. Let none ignore this work, or treat it as of little importance. God's people are not to cease their labors till they encircle the world. The truth is to be proclaimed to all mankind. All must have an opportunity to see the light. {AUCR, January 1, 1901 par. 6}


Quote:
The whole earth is to be lightened with the glory of God's truth. The Lord will not close up the period of probation until the warning message shall be more distinctly proclaimed. The trumpet must give a certain sound. The law of God is to be magnified, its claims must be presented in their true, sacred character; that the people may be brought to decide for or against the truth. Yet the work will be cut short in righteousness. The message of Christ's righteousness is to sound from one end of the world to the other. This is the glory of God which closes the work of the third angel. {GCDB, January 28, 1893 par. 27}


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #186379
04/07/18 11:54 PM
04/07/18 11:54 PM
dedication  Online Content
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But, His Child,none of your quotes support your "time setting" nor your assumptions that the judgment has ended, ceased.

After 1844 there are no more "time tests". We can know, and must be aware that the "time is near, even at the door", but all those dates are pure assumption.

I have no problem with the quotes, my problem is with your time setting and your idea that the judgment is ended.
It is NOT yet ended.

Indeed "The Lord will not close up probation until the warning message shall be distinctly proclaimed".

Christ is still in the Most Holy Place -- the work of intercession and sealing and permanently inscribing the names of the redeemed in the book of life, has not yet ended.


Originally Posted By: His Child
"Probation is not yet closed; the saints are not yet sealed." {1888 697.3}


Can God place the seal of God on those who have not been Judged? Thus the Judgment Hour must end before the final sealing commences.


Probation (and the judgment) is not yet closed BECAUSE the saints are not yet sealed. If judgment were ended, those "unsealed saints" would not be judged as "saints" but would have had their names removed from the book of life.

The fact is -- the pre-Advent judgment, in which Christ makes up the list of ALL the redeemed (in the book of life) has NOT yet ended.
The door of mercy is still, for a little longer, open.

You throw in YOUR OPINION that the judgment is ended,(which EGW plainly says is the close of probation),-- before the sealing can start?


I don't think you understanding the sealing work at all, or the judgment.

The sealing MUST take place BEFORE the judgment ends.
The "sealing time" has been going on some time already.

Quote:

Satan is now using every device in this sealing time (EGW refers to her time as being "sealing time") to keep the minds of God's people from the present truth and to cause them to waver. I saw a covering that God was drawing over His people to protect them in the time of trouble; and every soul that was decided on the truth and was pure in heart was to be covered with the covering of the Almighty. {EW 43.2}

I saw that Satan was at work in these ways to distract, deceive, and draw away God's people, just now in this sealing time (Again -- the sealing time is ongoing even in EGW's time). I saw some who were not standing stiffly for present truth. ...
Satan was trying his every art to hold them where they were, until the sealing was past, until the covering was drawn over God's people, and they left without a shelter from the burning wrath of God, in the seven last plagues.(EW 44}
Quote:


The sealing time is very short, and will soon be over. Now is the time, while the four angels are holding the four winds, to make our calling and election sure. (EW 58)

The sealing is a pledge from God of perfect security to His chosen ones. Sealing indicates you are God’s chosen. He has appropriated you to Himself. As the sealed of God we are Christ’s purchased possession, and no one shall pluck us out of His hands.—Manuscript 59, 1895

An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received "the seal of the living God." Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above (not before the sealing but after all the saints received "the seal" Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary). He lifts His hands, and with a loud voice says, "It is done."--GC 613 (1911).

Quote:


Before the work is closed up and the sealing of God's people is finished, we shall receive the outpouring of the Spirit of God. Angels from heaven will be in our midst. {Mar 212.2}

Therefore what is done to rescue souls from the coming storm of wrath, must be done before Jesus leaves the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary. {CET 105.1}

When the work of the investigative judgment closes, the destiny of all will have been decided for life or death. Probation is ended.. GC 490




Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: JAK] #186380
04/08/18 12:22 AM
04/08/18 12:22 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: JAK

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," (NIV)

Of course God knows those who are His! He knew all that even before they were born.

But created beings do not know, they only look at the outward appearance.

The judgment isn't to increase God's knowledge but to reveal that which God already knows. Revealing His love, fairness, and all the Godhead: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, did to save that person, and how the person either resisted, or responded, thus basically sealing their own destiny.
The judgment makes no arbitrary decisions, it reveals the true situation of a person's response to the saving power of God.

Nor is the final "seal" an arbitrary decision by God, but is determined by an individual's choice to fully accept Christ and His transforming power, and thus be sealed as a citizen of God's kingdom, or inwardly, even if not obviously outwardly, to follow the world, and receive their mark.

Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: dedication] #186406
04/11/18 10:34 AM
04/11/18 10:34 AM
His child  Offline
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Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Dedication,

I do not believe or teach that the Judgment has ended. The time allotted for the Judgment of the LIVING has ended. Perhaps I did not word that clearly? Every case is current. We are in the final sealing time within the final tarrying time.

The same evidence that proved that Obama was America's last President elected constitutionally (Trump's election is tainted by allegations of electoral interference) declares that President Pence will be the closer.

Quote:
Though no man knoweth the day nor the hour of His coming, we are instructed and required to know when it is near. We are further taught that to disregard His warning, and refuse or neglect to know when His Advent is near, will be as fatal for us, as it was for those who lived in the days of Noah not to know when the flood was coming. GC88 370.2


This is not a matter of opinion.
It is firmly established in the word of God.
And confirmed in the Spirit of Prophecy.

The promise is that the wise will understand. 5 of the endtime virgins will be wise and 5 not. It is my prayer that as many as possible will awaken before it is to late.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #186409
04/12/18 11:12 AM
04/12/18 11:12 AM
His child  Offline
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Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Ellen White stated
Quote:
I saw a throne, and on it sat the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. I gazed on Jesus' countenance and admired his lovely person. The Fathers person I could not behold for a cloud of glorious light covered him. I asked Jesus if his Father had a form like himself; He said he had, but I could not behold it; for, said he, if you should for once see the glory of his person, you would cease to exist. Before the throne was the Advent people, the Church, and the world. I saw a company bowed down before the throne, deeply interested while most of them stood up disinterested and careless. Those who were bowed before the throne would offer up their prayers and look to Jesus, then he would look to his Father and appeared to be pleading with him. Then a light came from the Father to his Son and from him to the praying company. Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from the Father to the Son and from the Son it waved over the people before the throne. But few would receive this great light. Many came out from under it and immediately resisted it. Others were careless and did not cherish the light and it moved off from them. Some cherished it and went and bowed down before the throne with the little praying company. This company all received the light, and rejoiced in it as their countenances shone with its glory. Then I saw the Father rise from the throne and in a flaming chariot go into the Holy of Holies within the vail, and did sit. There I saw thrones which I had not seen before. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and most of those who were bowed down rose up with him. And I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after he rose up, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who rose up when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on him as he left the throne, and led them out a little way, then he raised his right arm and we heard his lovely voice saying, wait ye, I am going to my Father to receive the Kingdom. Keep your garments spotless and in a little while I will return from the wedding, and receive you to myself. And I saw a cloudy chariot with wheels like flaming fire. Angels were all about the chariot as it came where Jesus was; he stepped into it and was borne to the Holiest where the Father sat. Then I beheld Jesus as he was before the Father a great High Priest. On the hem of his garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Then Jesus shewed me the difference between faith and feeling. And I saw those who rose up with Jesus send up their faith to Jesus in the Holiest, and praying, Father give us thy spirit. Then Jesus would breathe on them the Holy Ghost. In the breath was light, power and much love, joy and peace. Then I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne. They did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne and pray, My Father give us thy spirit. Then Satan would breathe on them an unholy influence. In it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children. I saw one after another leave the company who were praying to Jesus in the Holiest, go and join those before the throne and they at once received the unholy influence of Satan. {DS, March 14, 1846 par. 1}
Quote:

About four months since, I had a vision of events, all in the future. And I saw the time of trouble, such as never was,--Jesus told me it was the time of Jacob's trouble, and that we should be delivered out of it by the voice of God. Just before we entered it, we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four Angels cease to hold the four winds. And I saw famine, pestilence and sword, nation rose against nation, and the whole world was in confusion. Then we cried to God for deliverance day and night till we began to hear the bells on Jesus' garment. And I saw Jesus rise up in the Holiest, and as he came out we heard the tinkling of bells, and knew our High Priest was coming out. Then we heard the voice of God which shook the heavens and earth, and gave the 144,000 the day and hour of Jesus' coming. Then the saints were free, united and full of the glory of God, for he had turned their captivity. And I saw a flaming cloud come where Jesus stood and he laid off his priestly garment and put on his kingly robe, took his place on the cloud which carried him to the east where it first appeared to the saints on earth, a small black cloud, which was the sign of the Son of Man. While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the east which took a number of days, the Synagogue of Satan worshiped at the saints feet. Ellen G. Harmon {DS, March 14, 1846 par. 2}

Last edited by His child; 04/12/18 11:14 AM.

"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: dedication] #186431
04/18/18 02:12 PM
04/18/18 02:12 PM
J
JAK  Offline
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Active Member 2018
Banned
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: JAK

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," (NIV)

Of course God knows those who are His! He knew all that even before they were born.

But created beings do not know, they only look at the outward appearance.

The judgment isn't to increase God's knowledge but to reveal that which God already knows.


Oh Ok...
Wait...
If God already knows it why is there an "Investigative" judgement? The whole thrust of the IJ is that God needs to "review the record" and "determine who is safe to save." By your own statement one cannot be judged until there is an investigation. (cf the dedication/Nadi discussion of the IJ)

And if "He knew all that even before they were born." why did it need to start in 1844? To whom is God revealing this knowledge of his? If to humans, what happened to the 1000 year millennium when the saved will "review the books" so to speak? If to other "created beings," well, they were there (if they exist) and saw the whole thing for themselves.

So if the IJ is to reveal to humans God's love and justice, but the results of the judgement are only made known AFTER the close of probation...um...that's not really fair, is it.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: JAK] #186432
04/18/18 04:34 PM
04/18/18 04:34 PM
His child  Offline
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TN, USA
Originally Posted By: JAK
Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: JAK

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," (NIV)

Of course God knows those who are His! He knew all that even before they were born.

But created beings do not know, they only look at the outward appearance.

The judgment isn't to increase God's knowledge but to reveal that which God already knows.


Oh Ok...
Wait...
If God already knows it why is there an "Investigative" judgement? The whole thrust of the IJ is that God needs to "review the record" and "determine who is safe to save." By your own statement one cannot be judged until there is an investigation. (cf the dedication/Nadi discussion of the IJ)

And if "He knew all that even before they were born." why did it need to start in 1844? To whom is God revealing this knowledge of his? If to humans, what happened to the 1000 year millennium when the saved will "review the books" so to speak? If to other "created beings," well, they were there (if they exist) and saw the whole thing for themselves.

So if the IJ is to reveal to humans God's love and justice, but the results of the judgement are only made known AFTER the close of probation...um...that's not really fair, is it.



First the investigative judgment of the dead began 22 October 1844.
2) it was for an allotted time
3) The allotted time was an HOUR
4) Within the context of the sin problem being limited to 7 days/ 7000 years, an hour within that timeframe is 83 years 4 months
5) The hour allotted for the IJ of the dead went from 22 October 1844 through 22 February 1928
6) The RC was DEAD during that entire HOUR
7) The RC had its deadly wound healed after the allotted HOUR ended
8) The RC began to be alive again from February 1929 through June 1929 when the Lateran Treaty took effect
9) The RC was alive on the 1929 Day of Atonement (14 October) for the HOUR (83 years 4 months) through 14 February 2013) when Benedict XVI resigned and ended the solo pope papacy/kingship that had been revived in 1929.
10) The HOUR (83 years 4 months) allotted for the Judgment of the LIVING (14 October 1928 to 14 February 2013) ended in time to allow a dual pope papacy to form.
11) When Satan appears claiming to be Pope John-Paul II the union of the Dragon (Satan as John-Paul II), Pope Francis I (the beast), and Benedict XVI (the false prophet) will form.
12) We are in the final sealing time.
13) Those who have been JUDGED worthy to receive the seal of the Living God will be preserved until Christ comes.

That is how it is and it is past time to get about our Father's business.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: His child] #186433
04/18/18 06:04 PM
04/18/18 06:04 PM
J
JAK  Offline
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Active Member 2018
Banned
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: His child
That is how it is and it is past time to get about our Father's business.


Ok then...
None of which:
A) answers ANY of the questions I asked.
B) has any references or support.
C) is even remotely true.

So:
JAK - 1
His child/dedication/whoever - 0

A basic academic principle is to answer the question asked. Try to do that.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #186436
04/18/18 08:23 PM
04/18/18 08:23 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
The purpose of the IJ is for the benefit of the created beings who do not know all things as God knows all things.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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