• Gen. 2:1 says "Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished." God had made the birds, the fish, the animals and two human beings, in that order. How then to explain our lost predicament? We disobeyed God. That should be enough, shouldn't it? If you do what is wrong, you get punished by the person who told you not to do something. And our punishment was "separation" from God. We can't ordinarily see Him nor hear His voice. Like insufferable teenagers, we were cast out of the House of God.
   
• Remarkably however, though that is a reasonable and adequate explanation, only in the Bible do we find something more. Our first parents, in their innocence, were deceived into disobedience. They did not just simply disobey; they were deliberately persuaded by someone else to act contrariwise.
  
  The question is who? There were only the birds, the fish, the animals and two human beings. Well, the Bible says one of the animals did it: the serpent, ("more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made"). Notice, it did not just say that the serpent did it. It says that the serpent, the animal responsible, was more cunning than any other beast. The animal itself of itself possessed the wherewithal and gumption to do something as "clever" as that. How do monkeys know how to peel and eat bananas, and how do certain species of birds figure out how to attract a mate by decorating their nest? The serpent was highly intelligent already.
   
• So, to answer your question, the serpent tempted Eve.
  
  It is only from God's words when He drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden and in the warning He gave to Cain, later in Genesis, that we begin to get some idea that there is a realm beyond our material world, invisible to our eyes and inaudible to our ears, that has beings more than capable of manipulating our thoughts and actions if we allow it; and not only ours apparently, but of the animals too (though them "without consent").
  
  
  Originally Posted By: Gen. 4:6-8

  So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.
  
  Who was behind Cain to deceive his brother so that his righteous brother would die? Now we, dwelling in the light, do see and know.
  
  John 8:44
  
  

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Even further...who put the tree of knowledge and the serpent there at the first place?

And plus -- without any guard rope, hi-fence, or something to prevent innocent freshly created people who hadn't experienced much yet.... to go to the tree where the serpent is ready to tempt them?

Indeed, God assumes responsibility for all things; but that does not mean that He means for us to be tempted, to sin or to die. Jesus told Nicodemus that God loves the world so much that He provided a way out of our hopelessness, a way of salvation for those who would believe in Him; John 3:16.

God's loathing to destroy anything has caused sin to prosper in the land, as it was said of Abel's murderer, "... the Lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him" Gen. 4:15. Further, 2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of judgment against wickedness], as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

And so the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was representative of the evil already present in the universe.

God's commandment is this: Though evil may abound everywhere around you, "do not walk in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stand in the path of sinners, nor sit in the seat of the scornful ... [for they will be] like the chaff which the wind drives away," Psalm 1.

///

I've heard words like that before! "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." "Why didst Thou create the serpent? Why didst Thou suffer him to enter Eden?"--these were the questions implied in her excuse for her sin. Blame God!

It is true that Gos assumes all responsibility and provided a way for salvation. But I disagree that He didn't mean for us to be tempted. If He didn't He wouldn't of put that tree and the serpent without any guards in the midst of the garden for A&E to be tempted.

I agree with your first post on this subject that the devil tempted Eve (& us). Lying, deceiving is the devil's job that he was created for (John 8:44 "He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.") From that text I get that the truth was never in the devil to start with...so he cannot do anything else but lie.

God needed the devil to bring about His plan of salvation that He put in place before He created this world. God knows the end from the beginning.

Also in His wisdom, He knew what was necessary for A&E to grow in understanding of all His laws by which they did not know when created. For sure the Holy Spirit could of taught them all His laws as they experienced life from day to day. But that's not what His wisdom foresaw as necessary...God needed the devil and that's why He placed the devil in the tree in the midst of the garden without any guards to prevent A&E to approach it.


I would reword your statement to replace "evil" with "ignorance". Lack of knowing God's ways and laws is the reason for our falls and being so easily deceived by the devil.

I'm glad you said the above because most denominations including Adventists, puts much of the blame on A&E however puts the devil ultimately responsible for A&E fall while giving a blind eye to God's responsibility in this.

Yes I agree that God is ultimately responsible for what happened at the beginning BECAUSE He is the Creator of the devil. The Creator is ultimately responsible for whatever His creation does.

That is written in His own laws of liability found in Ex 21:28-36. According to His own law, if an ox had already gore(kill) someone before, it is the owner's responsibility to kill or contain that ox. But if he doesn't and that ox kills someone else....then the owner of the ox must die. Satan(the equivalent of the ox) had already caused some angels to fall in heaven before the A&E incident. So it was God's responsibility to contain satan before he goes and kills others. But God did not do this.... but instead put the devil in the midst of the garden without anything guarding that tree and preventing A&E from going there. So in essence God created a dangerous pit that A&E could fall into and did not cover it. (see Ex 21:33-34)

Now on the surface it seems that God is irresponsible...but no He is not in the least bit. As I said He needed the devil for His plan of salvation and that's why He set it all up as He did. God fulfilled the judgment of His own laws (the owner of the bull must die) by taking full responsibility for A&E fall by dying on the cross. But the law also stipulates that whoever falls in the dangerous pit becomes His. So A&E is His forever possession twice as they were by creation before they fell in the pit.

God is fulfilling all aspects of His own laws as Jesus said "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Mat 5:18

I just wanted to add some clarification to some of my statements.


Notice that in my post I wrote "devil" with a small "d". I have studied the question of who is the devil and if he's an angel. He may be some form of spirit??? I still don't know and it's been awhile I have revisited that study. He is the leader of the fallen angels...yes...but that doesn't mean he's an angel himself. So I'm in the dark about that question and more studying is needed.

But relating to other questions regarding satan -- the devil.... I wondered where else in the book of Job is satan address besides in chapter 1 & 2. The closest I found was in chapter 41 when God talks about the Leviathan -- the sea serpent.

Another question I had : Was Satan blamed anywhere in the book of Job? No. I couldn't find one word. The only thing we find in chapter 41 is how God knows the Leviathan and how this monster is under His control.

Then we find in the last chapter the following important piece of info :

1. God takes all the blame for what happened to Job : Job 42:11 "Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold."

2. and God pays double restitution for all Job's lost by doubling all that he had at the beginning. (Job 42:12) This is another fulfillment of the law. If someone takes your possession away, double restitution needs to be paid. (Ex 22:4)

My understanding :

So since the devil is not blamed no where in the book of Job; then we read that God takes the blame and is the one to pay the restitution ....to me it is because He is ultimately responsible for whatever happened even thought satan did the deeds. Satan is His creation (whatever form he got) and God is responsible for all that he does.



I've added the clarification in bracket inside the text above. I also wanted to make clear, we also have the work of the Holy Spirit that teaches us the truth. But the devil is also there for our areas of ignorance.

Let's make a distinction between the two: The Holy Spirit speaks to our spiritual man that was conceived in us; whereas the devil speaks to our brain...minds -- the soulish minds that is.

Paul describes the soulish mind in 1Co 2:14

"But the natural [G5591 psychikos] man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Paul uses the word "Psychikos" of the root "psyche" that means soul. So Paul is saying that our soulish minds cannot understand the Spirit of God.....only our spiritual man can understand the Spirit of God..... That's a very important fact of our being we must know. We are body, soul(mind), and spirit(1 Th 5:23). The body is submitted to our soul(mind) and our mind should be submitted to our spirit. So when A&E fell at the temptation it was at the level of their minds(soul) that this sin occur.

So since Paul says in 1Cor 2:14 our natural minds cannot understand spiritual things...then it shouldn't make decision nor it is it's function to do so. It is our spirit that should make the decisions because it receives the word from the Holy Spirit. Our spirit never can sin because it is born of God(1Jn 3:9).

Now the question is...was A&E born of God before they sinned? The creation account given in Gen 2:7 is that A&E were created a living soul. Notice that the word "breath" in that text is not from ruach but neshamah (that means breath, soul--intellect). The Bible doesn't tell us; so I don't know this answer yet. If they were born of God before, then their spiritual man was only a babe (a conceived seed) at the time of the fall.


I just wanted to say to James that was a good point he made by saying evil or ignorance (evil is a result of our ignorance of who God is and His ways) was already present in the universe.

God said "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." According to Eve herself, she was told "Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

This was a law, and there was nothing to misunderstand. God did not fail to inform Adam and Eve of the danger or result. There was no pit uncovered.

Judas was with Jesus for years, heard the sermons, saw the miracles, and knew everything that Peter knew to say that Jesus was the Son of God. This did not stop him from selling Jesus out. It was not ignorance. It was stubborn refusal to change and flee his own sin of covetousness. Judas had already seen the transformative work of Christ in John who had been called a son of thunder but then later confessed to Jesus that he had jealously forbidden a man from casting out devils in the name of Jesus. Judas made a fully informed choice to cling to his sin.

You're accusing God of ultimately being the reason why people sin. You're saying it's Jesus's fault that we sinned, and that Jesus died not as a ransom for our sins, but as punishment for His own sin. If this were the case, Jesus would not have been without blemish as the Bible says, and He would have simply stayed in the tomb for all eternity.

The sacrifice of Jesus was voluntary. "Therefore doth my Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of My Father." The life of Jesus was not taken, it was not demanded by a law that was against Him. He was an innocent victim that, of His own self, laid down His life. The option was there that Jesus could have wiped the bloody sweat from His brow and left us to our deserved condemnation. As one thief confessed, "Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss."

What you need to understand is that there is a great controversy between God and Satan, who accuses God of being a tyrant whose laws cannot be kept and that bribes people into obedience. This is not the case. Both angels, as Satan was before his fall, and humans were given the freewill to obey or to refuse. God did not create the devil as the devil. If that was the case, how could God condemn the devil for doing what you say he was made for? This is a picture of an arbitrary and contradicting God that gives a command and chastises when the command is carried out. Who could know whether to obey or refuse? All would live in terror under such a God. It is Satan that tempts us into sin and then accuses us once we sin.

When our first parents sinned the effects of sin were immediate. They tried to blame each other, the serpent, and even God. Anything but themselves. We've been repeating the same blaming ever since then.

Did God tempt us? "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren." God never tempts us, or at all desires that we sin. He who did not spare His only begotten Son for our salvation, the only means by which any can ever be saved and by whom all who will can be saved, would not have chosen our fall to sin. We did this ourselves. Sure, the devil tempted us, but we listened.

You say God was at fault for harming Job. This is what Job struggled with while "he justified himself rather than God." But what did Elihu say? That Job was saying "I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me. Behold, He findeth occasions against me, He counteth me for His enemy, He putteth my feet in the stocks, He marketh all my paths. Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man." After God spoke with Job, what was Job's own assessment? "I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not... Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

Elihu told Job that after a man is redeemed "He singeth before men, and saith, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not:" (ERV) Who sinned? I.

Hi Josh! Tx for your thoughtful reply to my post.


1. ??? The fact that A&E could still fall makes the pit still very uncovered.

2. Telling innocent young created beings who didn't know the creator very much yet....to not go to that tree did open up their curiosity.

3. Again A&E reasoning happens at the mind(soul) level of processing information by which Paul says in 1Cor 2:14 that the "natural man" [soulish mind] cannot understand the things of God by which would include A&E probably didn't understand that command.


Making an "inform" choice doesn't mean we understand the things of God. (1 Cor 2:14) My understanding is at the level of the mind(soul) that ignorance results and that sin comes. If our(or A&E) understanding came from the spiritual level... according to 1Jn 3:9 we cannot sin. So my deduction is that any sin committed is at the level of the mind(soul) .....that's probably why scripture says...."the soul that sin it shall die"(Eze 18:20).

How can a soul(mind) die? I think Paul explains it when he said...he dies daily.... Does he die daily physically...I don't think so..However daily (or several times a day) he can submits his mind to his spiritual new man that was conceived in him. That's the 2nd death that is important to die which is a spiritual death. That's the death we experienced when we got baptize. The old man died and submitted to Jesus.


Be careful Josh to not mis-represent what I said. Josh you need to re-read what I said and take the time to ponder if there's any truth to it. I said the reason people sin is because of IGNORANCE of who God is and do not know His ways. That's what I believe was A&E situation and still all of our situation today.

Also I said that God is ultimately responsible for what He created....That's is in His own laws of liabilities. If you start a campfire and the fire goes wild on you... and burns the neighbors crop or house..... according to God's law....you are responsible for the damages that fire caused despite if it went out of your control. He's responsible because he created that fire at the first place.

Just because A&E choose to sin doesn't free God, the creator, from His responsibility towards them nor the damages they've caused.

Also the law of liability says the owner must die because of preknowledge of the nature of the bull(==devil)...by which Jesus fulfilled every word of that law. He's telling us by that law and other laws He's taking full responsibility including to bring us all into His glory. It will take some time. Some more than in others. But that's the work of salvation that God took upon Himself when He redeemed us... I believe He will finish what He started according to His plan.


Your missing the fact that Jesus, who created all things, devised the plan of salvation before He created this world. He is "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world" Rev 13:8 He had already given His life on the cross before He created the world. He knew the end from the beginning.

However I think Jesus renewed His decision many times in His life....most likely at the garden the day before he died and when He got baptized...He knew the meaning of baptism and what manner of baptism was ahead of him.


I do not disagree with the notion that the devil tempts us and accuses us...that's his job.

In regards to the devil being created as the devil....well I got that from John 8:44 -- Jesus own word. We take Is 14 and relate this to be the devil....but I have studied that chapter in details...and to me it relates more to Adam than the devil. For example, if you read Is 14:16 "They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;" Satan is not a man...Adam is a man.

If you are a true Bible student to seek the things of God...you have to be ready to put aside all your preconceived idea you have gotten from your family, church, this era, past era, and etc.... and seek what the word of God is really saying.


For sure, we need to see our own fault in this. In any sin...I think it involves all the times God, the devil, and us. All have some blame in it; but ultimately the blame goes to God because He is the creator of man and the devil plus He is the one who set up the event.


I agree that God doesn't tempt us...the devil does. That's his job.


Job repented after chapter 41 when God talked about the Leviathan. Not after Elihu. But for sure...we all have sinned and Job was wrong in saying he is clean. However, this hard event in Job's life was not due because He had sinned like his 3 friends was saying.

Also scripture said Job didn't sin(well it wasn't because that Job sin that caused this trial) twice: at the beginning (Job 1:1) and also at the end (Job 42:7,8) when he told Job to pray for his friends who had accused him (looks like his friends was doing the devils job or letting the devil speak thru them). Job (or God) never blamed the devil but put the responsibility on God. At least his objections were in the right direction despite he was lacking some understanding of God.

I think the reason God brought this trial to Job was to bring him to the next spiritual level. It is not because of any sin Job had committed.


Josh you did not address any of these key elements in my post :

1. The Creator is ultimately responsible for all of His creations actions.

2. According to Adventist ....Satan had previously killed in heaven before God put him on earth in the tree. According to God's own laws, the owner should of contain or kill the devil as the law requires with this pre-knowledge.

3. He left the pit uncovered. The danger for A&E to fall in that pit was there.

It's much more simple that you're seeing it.

Adam and Eve were perfect in body and mind, so their reasoning capabilities were not lacking. They were given everything they could want for their happiness. A whole perfect world, a crowning jewel of a garden beyond anything we've experienced, and best of all direct communion with their Creator and the holy angels. Abundant evidence was given of God's love and benevolence toward them.

There was just one test given to see whether they would obey God. They had an opportunity to exercise their free will and demonstrate whether they would obey or rebel.

Do not touch that one tree. Do not eat its fruit.

This is not some spiritualized command that they needed to study or get to know God before knowing the simple mechanics of what specific action they were told not to do.

The deception of the devil was to tell Eve that she wouldn't die and that God was keeping something even better from her. Eve decided to trust the serpent instead of God. The next time she and Adam saw God the effects of this sin were as plain as day. Instead of the joy of being in the presence of the King, they hid because they were afraid. Humanity became doubtful and distrustful of God, and quickly began blaming God for all of it.



I did read your posts carefully. You said Jesus died as a legal punishment for not fulfilling a responsibility to contain Satan. You are dangerously close to outright saying that Jesus deserved to die.

If you listen to nothing else I ever say, listen to this one thing while setting aside your own interpretations of the Bible and looking just at the Bible directly.

We have a compassionate savior in Jesus, "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth", who pities our faults when we are tempted, and who gave Himself for us to uplift us from the pit of ruin that we all fell into through sin. By the intercession of Jesus God says to man "Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom."

It is not God's design that we should have ever fallen into this pit. God did not create us to ruin us and is deeply touched by our sufferings, even when it's the result of our own sins. "His soul was grieved for the misery of Israel." Nor was it some light thing that Jesus suffered on our behalf while the Father watched, restraining Himself from intervening.

Is God the source of humanity's wickedness then? Why? For what purpose? Did God plan out our fall, and provide the devil for the purpose of making it happen? No, "far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity." "For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with Thee."

What I was emphasizing last time was the vital necessity of us fully confessing our sins, our own sins that we ourselves are responsible for, and the deadly danger of placing the responsibility for them on anyone else.

Look at the thief on the cross. At first he desired to escape the punishment for his sin. At that point he wasn't saying anything different from those who "by wicked hands have crucified and slain" the guiltless. Then he finally made a confession in which he fully owned up to his own guiltiness and accepted the justice of his punishment. There was no attempt then made to blame anyone else, to diminish his crime, or to evade the consequences. By that confession and then his claiming of Jesus he was given the assurance that he would be in Heaven.

Read Psalm 51. Again, there is no effort from David to do anything but own up to his sin. There is no blaming God, no blaming Bathsheba for being attractive, and no claim of ignorance of God's ways.



Since you asked,
1. God is responsible for our actions only in the sense that He who "gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment" also permits created beings to act out their own will to a certain extent. God makes it possible for us to act and to choose to obey. Without this we would only be puppets. This does not make God morally or criminally responsible for our sins, which are the transgression of the law. We are not a fire that has no thought or will.

2. Satan didn't kill in heaven. Jesus said if you hate your brother you've murdered him in your heart already. In this way the devil was a murderer from the beginning. What beginning? Not when Lucifer was created, but when he rebelled and became the devil (slanderer) and Satan (enemy). God, who has no pleasure in wickedness and with whom evil shall not dwell, did not create a murderer.

3. A clear warning was given, just as a sign warning of a dog, electricity, or anything else. Now if someone walks past that sign regardless, the results are their own responsibility. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil wasn't even somehow inherently special. The problem was the disobedience.

I never said they lacked in anyway in their reasoning capabilities. I quoted 1Co 2:14 where Paul said that our reasoning capabilities cannot understand spiritual things. That's the way our mind is created and works. There's nothing imperfect about that. Only our minds needs to be submitted to our spirit. It is when our spirit that should make important decisions because it understand and knows the things of God. So basically the sin result in the mind that usurp the function of our spirit.


No...I mentioned specifically that God was NOT irresponsible at the least bit. Actually by giving us that law and setting up the A&E event as He did....He's letting us know that He's taking full responsibility for everything from the beginning and that A&E(and their children) becomes His full possession.

As I said He put the devil in that tree and, still today, the devil is not restrain; because the obvious to me is that God must need him for our spiritual growth. However the devil is not out of control of God's hand (read Job 41). Scriptures also tells us that the devil cannot let one hair of your head fall without God allowing it. So since that's the setup God has put in this world.... we need to trust God's plan in letting the devil be around to tempt us. Everything works together for good.

Also we know from scripture that the devil will be bound during the Millennium and released for a short while after the resurrection of the dead. So the devil is mostly needed for the first 6000 years and a brief moment after the Millennium. After that there's no more need of the devil...as far as scriptures says.

Also I tried to make a strong point that what is inscribe in the law(==the Torah:==the Pentateuch) is the basic foundation of the plan of salvation. Jesus said in Mat 5:18 that He came to fulfill every word written in the law and that includes Ex 21:28-36 concerning the liability law of the crossed ox. Jesus has fulfills many laws including the laws of divorcement see Jer 3:8 by giving Israel(his wife) a bill of divorce before sending her out.

We view God as breaking these laws but if He fulfills the judgment of the law and makes the situation right at the end -- He has broken no law.

Something I came to Know of Him that He often uses the law to fulfill His plan. So by not containing the devil and not placing a cover on the pit He had dug...He's making it obvious that He is ultimately responsible for A&E fall from the very beginning for us to see and understand His love in this. He did NOT break any laws by taking ultimate responsibility of the situation.... in the contrary He has fulfill ALL the law including its judgment and the restitution part of the law while letting us know what He's doing.

However that doesn't mean He will not use man's sin (the breakage of a law) to teach man the law by requiring restitution of him at the great white throne judgment.

Most of the time...we are unaware that we break any laws because we do not know them nor study them. But when we become aware of some .... often we do not seek to restitute it that we remain under the law.

But once the restitution is accomplish according to the prescription of the law, then the law is satisfied or fulfilled that we are no longer under the law.

God knows His own laws and always fulfills the whole law or will fulfill it at a later date according to His perfect timing in His plan. The law shows us God's ways and His righteousness. The law is love and God uses it to save man's lives. And He did that at the beginning with A&E fall.


I never said that God did evil or wrong in what He has done. God has done nothing wrong. All was done out of love and in the purpose to save Man's lives.

God has devise in His wisdom a perfect plan to bring us into salvation and it so happen that the devil is part of that plan at least the first 6000 years or so.

You are the one that is jumping to that conclusion because you cannot fit in your picture of God the obvious laws of liabilities I brought up during A&E fall. It's easier to not look at it and pretend its not there and resort to man's theories & traditional thinking to cover it up. It's easier to put all the blame on A&E and the devil and ignore the liabilities laws so to keep the picture of God we had painted intact.


Again your lack of understanding of the law, its purpose, and the ways of God makes you think that God is a criminal in front of the liabilities laws. And that's why most people want to suppress that detail of A&E fall. I understand that behavior as myself was doing the same thing. Our narrow understanding of God's laws and His ways has us seeing Him in a false way.

The law in Ex 21:28-36 is the expression of His character which is love. We cannot put the law of liabilities aside nor toss it out in front of A&E's fall. We need to seek to understand deeper with the aid of the Holy Spirit.

I hope you are not trying to say that the laws of liabilities doesn't apply to Him nor in A&E fall.

In regards to choices....I do believe that in God's plan He wants us to exercise choices; however our choices is limited to whatever His plan is. Our choices is not above God's plan or His Sovereignty in the events He sets. God is not bound up by our choices, nor does His plan changes in any way every time man makes a decision.

That's your say. We don't read this in John 8:44. And I don't see any valid scriptures saying what you said above.


A sign or a verbal warning is not what the law say you must do. According to the law, the hole has to be completely covered meaning that all possibility of danger of falling is removed by covering up the hole. That's what the law requires -- to remove the possible danger of falling. A verbal warning leaves the hole uncovered leaving a huge chance of A&E of falling.