The last verse of "O Canada" reads:

Ruler supreme, Who hearest humble prayer,
Hold our Dominion in Thy loving care.

Help us to find, O God, in Thee
A lasting rich reward,

As waiting for the better day,
We ever stand on guard.

Doesn't this Adventist Theology blow you away?! Canadians, indeed, can sing about the Blessed Hope while trusting in God today. No wonder the discerning church bretheren included this National Anthem in our one and only "real" 1941 Church Hymnal.

(Why isn't it in the "new" Hymnal? I guess it joined "Sitting at the Feet of Jesus" in that great bin of music history)

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

I also wondered the same thing!

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)

To many 'modern' up to date musicians in charge, I guess.

Have to purchase old tapes to hear the old favorites again.

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Is what you're living for worth Christ dying for?

Gerry B.

They refused to admit (that they didn't) "Yield Not to Temptation" so they were "Almost Persuaded--But Lost."

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

Well Pastor A, not haveing Laurie's (now departed) relative Dave Crawford around like we did in Academy one year to call out # 209? "Oh Canada" in morning worship. I don't get to sing it anymore.

But I am somewhat disconcerted when I go to church and they have these little chant handbooks. With repetitive "praise" chants. The good old hymns of old were good "Praise" songs too....many times with melody from the "great Masters". These new "Celebration" style songs, have about as much melody as "Three Dog Night" did. More like a wail, going up and down about a 4-5 note scale. And just repeating themselves over and over, and over and over again. Sometimes I think that some power or force is trying to numb our brains!

My wife who loves to play the Piano, once tried to look up some of her favorites in the "new" book, not to find them. I think it's the one and only time she used it. And loves the "Old" Hymnal. All they really needed to do, to up-date the old Hymnal, was to simply paste Wayne Hoopers, "We Have This Hope" in the front flyleaf of the old hymnal!

Use to be a time, that at Campmeeting, they'd have "Gospel Melodies" as the songbook. And any youth meeting used the old oranged covered "M.V. Songbook" We had a lot of fun, back in those days with even some of the lighter melodies for campfires and outings.

J.R.

Even simple, popular Campmeeting standard tunes like "Love Lifted Me" aren't found in the "new" hymnbook. What were these musical types thinking?

I'm all for having more (musical) standards!

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

I've been trying to figure out what they were thinking ever since I found Sitting at the Feet of Jesus was left sitting somewhere else. I have a couple of copies of the old hymnal that I intend to hang onto. I love a lot of the songs in there that aren't in the new book.

And what about some of the songs in there that shouldn't be like "When I fall on my knees with my face to the rising sun..."?

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Even so come, Lord Jesus
Linda

The only thing I can remember about the preparation of the new hymnal was peering into the campus Chaplain's office at Kingsway. The pastor had a list of "options" in front of him. I wonder who got to decide what got in an what didn't? Ehy are some of the songs completely in Latin? I'm glad that "Be Thou My Vision" made it--but the rest is amazing!

Another thing. They put all of the songs in a mid-range key to make it "easier to sing." Anyone with music sense knows that there are at least 3 notes in everybody's mid-range that cannot be reached without extensive training. My range blind-spot is about 5 notes, so I'm hopelessly lost! With the old hymnal I would simply raise my voice up an octive or down an octive to sing along with the congregation.

Now I'll stick with playing the instrument while others struggle with the tunes.

Could somebody please hold my hand? I can't take the trauma!!

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

I didn't get to use the old hymnal very much, it was changed just after I joined.

We have the MV hymnals here, and the youth use them extensively for special music.
We also still have the sabbath school song books.
A lot of old favorites in there.

We have an elder here that is in his late 90's, and he shares a lot of old songs with us ( the names and he sings, too).

I miss a lot of the old songs I heard as a kid growing up in the Lutheran church, praise songs, songs that draw you up towards God, not down towards men.

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Is what you're living for worth Christ dying for?

Gerry B.

[This message has been edited by Gerry Buck (edited August 01, 2000).]

Gerry,

Could you give an example of those praise songs? I enjoy playing the piano. Maybe I've seen them in some of my music books and my congregations could benefit from learning them.

I'll just sing my usual way down lower than the accompanist goes and sing "with my back to the rising sun" and happily go right on along.

Here's for # 373 "Seeking the Lost" Fits my voice just fine, the congregation sings too high that's all.

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Edward F. Sutton

My all time favorite is Beulah Land, but there were several that came to mind.

I grew up listening to groups like the Paines and the Lewis family and The Chuckwagon Gang.

Unfortunately, it has been to long and I don't remember the titles.
I was only 12 or 13 the last time I attended there.

Shall we gather at the river

At The Rugged Cross I Stand

Roll Jordan Roll

Fishers of Men ( not to sure that is the proper title)

Just a little walk ( with my saviour)

There was one that I only remember the chorus to:
He's more than just a swear word,
Not just an idle care word,
He's the precious Son of God.

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Is what you're living for worth Christ dying for?

Gerry B.

It's interesting where the theology of "O Canada" will end up.

Daryl
from Campmeeting

Not to be rude Mr. Layman, but your post on the "new music" reminded me of something I see in my father and fear in myself. I wonder at what age we subconciously decide that all we knew up till then was good and proper and right and any new innovations from then on are from the devil. I love some of the old hymns and some of the new. One thing I know for sure. It is frustration to sit in a song service and not be able to sing any of the songs because you don't know them. I believe that is the biggest reason why music is such a contentious issue. We fear what we do not know and are suspicious of all things different. On the other hand, if it is familiar, it must be OK. I struggle to remain open minded in all areas and these discussions are a real help!

Not having had the 'honor' of growing up in a christian home, I don't think all I have known is right and proper.

I recognize the power behind most of the music that many are trying desperatly to introduce into worship services.

I am not against contemporary music per se, but do have a problem with the 2 or 3 chord 'chants' that try to pass themselves off as 'christian'.

Same stuff I listened to in spiritist srvices 20 years ago.
As to 'christian rock', I've made my thoughts known on that several times, and have been called old fashioned in my thinking and have been told I am close minded.

I am.
I know where rock came from, where it still is and where it still belongs.
In a christian service it doesn't.

The repetitive chants ( choruses) remind me of the mantras many of my new age friends use to 'get in touch with their inner selves'.

You are right, old isn't necessarily better.
The old druid chants and the new age mantras are all the same thing, just under a different name.

I watch so many of our young people struggle with this stuff, and watch them get blind sided by the very people that are supposed to guide them past this obstacle.

I used to think there was a time and a place for everything, but, I was wrong.

There is never a time for the things of the devil in our worship service, and not in our minds and hearts, either.

What is popular is not often right.
What is right is not often popular.

Gerry B.

Sometimes people come to church services to have their faith affirmed. I guess that is why some of the "let's try something new" stuff is sniffed at.

Familiar hymns have much meaning to people. In my years of ministry, I can remember people (some of whom have passed away) simply by knowing that "Sitting at the Feet of Jesus" or "Whiter Than Snow" were hymns they always requested to be sung.

I find "newer" choruses like "Pass it On" or "The Hash Chorus" get worn out quite quickly (even young people groan when those are selected), but "What a Friend We Have in Jesus" or "The Old Rugged Cross" can never go out of style. Now why is that? Were Bernard, Schriven, Sankey et al. better writers?

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

So much that is written today, appears to be nothing but fluff.
It doesn't speak to the heart the way a really good song does.

I've said it before, not all CCM is bad, I have heard some really good ones, but, most of it wears thin after just a few plays.
It has no message and doesn't uplift God or bring us into His presence. It's like eating popcorn, filling, but not satisfying. An hour later, you're hungry again.

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What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.
Gerry B.

It would seem that the writers and arangers of timeless hymns, are not entertainers. To write what has convicted you and propels the listner/singer into the themes of Scripture.

The effect would be that of bringing them closer into the messages of Scripture, being arranged with the humble dignity and content that arouses not sentamintilism and empty emotions; but rather shame for sin - gratitude for Calvery and the Saviour Who died & rose again - hope for His return - and a place for them to work beside HIM - and moves them to consider their place in that story.

Any forms of music used with such hymns that by it's delivery or style detracted from the lyrics and message would rightly seem out of place and inappropriate.

Will more timeless hymns be written in our day, I sure hope so. Martin Luther commented that a religion that depended on force to spread or maintain it's self was a bad one. My comment is that any hymn that relies upon Entertainment Industry style arranging and sentimental lyrics is trendy today and forgotten tommorow, for it does not satisfy the heart needs of the hearer or the singer.

It does not bring them into the themes of Scripture, it tickles the ear, moves the feet, claps the hands, misses the Heart and saddens the Lord. It could not direct away from it's self to God to - convict / comfort / motivate /convert.

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Edward F. Sutton

[This message has been edited by Edward F. Sutton (edited August 11, 2000).]

Yeah, what he said.

Since this thread is practically all about music, I have now moved it into the Music forum where there is another thread about music being discussed also.

Let the discussion of this thread continue in the Music forum.

See you there.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)