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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: Charity]
#186940
06/28/18 01:58 AM
06/28/18 01:58 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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IMHO: Ellen White was unique. A woman, called to minister to a church that does not believe in women ministers. A woman that was capable of placing texts in context when they were gathered here and there from various settings. But she is not for everyone, only those who are willing to take the Bible and the Bible only will receive the refreshing that she brings from the LORD.
But I am going to let MHO take a break from this conversation.
I've been meditating today on history and Scripture so much that my soul is troubled.
Did you know that as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be just before Christ returns? They were allowed 120 years back then. This October 2018 will be 120 years since the leading class in the SDA Church rejected the light at Minneapolis. (I'm NOT saying Christ will come in October, but that October brings us that much closer to Christ's Coming). It has been 120 years...Imagine that? those 120 years are ending soon after the prophetic hour (83 years 4 months) ended that I discussed from Revelation 14, 17, and 18. The prophetic history that has been fulfilled since 14 February 2013 overwhelms me.
And reviewing Ellen's statement that to understand the formation of the Image Beast, we must study the Beast. I learned that the beast was formed after 3 kings were plucked up (from 508-538) from the area comprising the Western Roman Empire. In Daniel "Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his step" (Daniel 11:43) That was fulfilled in 2011, The amazing coincidence is that 7 years ago (imagine a 7 year period in Daniel?) the Arab Spring followed in America's steps. And now it is time that "the ships of Chittim shall come against him:" (Daniel 11:30). [I read Chittim as Iran that attacks US fleet in the Gulf. I thought it would have been long before this. But it is so close now]As we near July 3, 2018 (that is a significant date for Iran, that they have not taken revenge against the US as yet)
I am impressed to devote more time to prayer and study. It is time to be sure my sins are taken into the Most Holy Place and to be sure that I have sought and received forgiveness while Christ still ministers in the Temple in Heaven during the Investigative Judgment. I want to be in the 144k.
What a shame it would be to study about the Sanctuary and not to apply the knowledge learned. To preach to others and be lost because of neglect of duty. I may check back to marvel at the comments that get posted in my absence, (so that I don't get too far behind). But there are so many things to study and so little time. And so few who manifest a real interest in Bible doctrines and prophecy as I am reading it.
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: His child]
#186942
06/28/18 03:42 AM
06/28/18 03:42 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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As Dedication stated, I am in good company, The 1843 Adventist's adjusted their position when more light came to point out 1844 and when they were wrong about 1844 they studied some more and updated their understanding while others doubted and stopped following Jesus. There is a very big difference however, the Advent Movement in the 1840's was not the work of a single man, but many in various parts of the world. When Jesus said, AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, how many people do you supposed God used to warn the antediluvians of their pending judgment? When Jesus said, AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, when was Jesus talking about? Better to focus on the message and not the number of messengers. To each generation there comes a testing message that will draw folks to God or turn them away. The message that is from God will do its appointed work. There were more that just Noah preaching to the world. Methuselah also preached. Those that worked on the Ark were a testiment. Noah never back pedaled his message. Better to preach the gospel, than a guess.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: His child]
#186943
06/28/18 01:56 PM
06/28/18 01:56 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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By faith, I asked the LORD how I could be so close and miss calling the prophecies correctly.
And by faith, you still insist on a Greek Omega being the equivalent and the translation of the English letter "W" even when you have been corrected? Or maybe I've even got this question wrong. Do you mean MAKING the prophecy or INTERPRETING the prophecy?
Yes, there's a difference, isn't there? By sight you can't see something like a w when it is written in front of you. Looks like a horseshoe to me, not a 'w'. But Henry, what has looks to do with transliteration of languages?
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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: Charity]
#186944
06/28/18 02:20 PM
06/28/18 02:20 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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But Isaiah warns that there will be those who hearing , hear not, and seeing , see not.
But it is not up to me to convince anyone of the rightness of my prophetic understand. I can share only what I know when I know it and the Holy Spirit is given to lead us into truth.
Hmmmm......Demeaning those who disagree with oneself. Hmmmm......Seems similar to something. I heard a sermon about how Ellen White warns us of deceptions coming in the last days. Deceptions that if it were possible (but we are told beforehand) to deceive the elect. She gives examples of such in the first 10 chapters of Selected messages. Should we not read them? I chose to start reading them. Here are some selected passages I believe applies here. It's best to read the 10 chapters yourself. I warn the Seventh-day Adventist Church to be careful how you receive every new notion and those who claim to have great light. The character of their work seems to be to accuse and to tear down. {2SM 69.2}
During the past forty-five years, I have had to meet persons claiming to have from God messages of reproof to others. This phase of religious fanaticism has sprung up again and again since 1844. Satan has worked in many ways to establish error. Some things spoken in these visions came to pass; but many things--in regard to the time of Christ's coming, the end of probation, and the events to take place--proved utterly false, as your prophesyings and Anna's have done. Yet they would try to excuse the blunders by twisting the statements about, and giving them another meaning, and go on in the same way, deceiving and being deceived. {2SM 75.2}
In one place, four in one family professed to have communications from the Lord, reproving wrong, and they predicted things that actually did take place. This inspired confidence in them. But the things that did not take place were kept in the dark, or were treated as something mysterious, which would be understood later. Whence did these receive their inspiration?--From satanic agencies, which are many. The Lord laid it upon me to meet these things, and bear a decided testimony against them.... {2SM 76.4}
I was asked how this could be if the visions were all false. I told them that it was Satan's purpose to mingle truth with error, that through these deceptive exercises he might make of none effect the genuine work of God. From that time all their many visions ceased. What has become of those who had the visions, and those who encouraged them? Several now living are skeptics, have no belief in the gifts of the church, no faith in the truth, no religion at all. Such, I have been shown, is the sure result of spurious visions. {2SM 77.4}
The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. "Where there is no vision, the people perish" (Proverbs 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony. He will bring in spurious visions to mislead, and will mingle the false with the true, and so disgust people that they will regard everything that bears the name of visions as a species of fanaticism; but honest souls, by contrasting false and true, will be enabled to distinguish between them.... {2SM 78.2}
Not once should feeling be allowed to get the mastery over judgment. There is danger of excess in that which is lawful, and that which is not lawful will surely lead into false paths. If there is not careful, earnest, sensible work, solid as a rock, in the advancement of every idea and principle, and in every representation given, souls will be ruined.... The greatest care should be exercised concerning those who claim to receive revelations from God. There needs to be much close watching and much praying. Those who are acting a part in the great work for these last days need to counsel together in regard to every new thing that shall be introduced, for no one man's mind is to be left to judge of, or to place before the public, important matters which have a relation to the cause of God.--Letter 6a, 1894. {2SM 91.2}
A curb must be kept upon the spiritual impulse, that no injudicious words shall be spoken, no overwrought ideas expressed, that shall cause impulsive persons to lose their bearings. There are some whose feelings are quickly stirred by strong assertions, and their imagination magnifies the statement to large dimensions; it all appears real to them, and they become fanatical. The spiritual experience is fevered, diseased. When persons yield their will in perfect submission to the will of God, and the spirit is humble and teachable, the Lord will correct them by His Holy Spirit, and lead them into safe paths.--Letter 66, 1894. {2SM 93.3}
But not teachable about Greek letters? There are many things I shall not say now, which it will be necessary to say hereafter. While I would do nothing to hurt this sister, I would not dare to keep silent.... I am placed in a peculiar position, and this matter should never have been so treated as to make it necessary for me to speak on such a subject. It hurts my heart to do it, and were it not that I see the future dangers, I would not utter one word in regard to the matter, but would let it develop, and leave my brethren and sisters to pursue their own course in regard to these manifestations, which are not at all peculiar.... I fail to see in the writings of Sister Phillips anything of a character that should create such movements as have been made. And if things of this nature are to be so eagerly grasped, you will have plenty of them, varied in some respects, yet such as you could treat with as much confidence. I am so sorry, so sorry. {2SM 94.2}
You seem to think I should be able to point out just where the particularly objectionable sentiments lie. There is nothing so very apparent in that which has been written; you have been able to discover nothing objectionable; but this is no reason for using these writings as you have done. Your course in this matter is decidedly objectionable. Is it necessary that you should discern at once something that would produce harm to the people of God, to make you cautious? If nothing of this kind appears, is this a sufficient reason for you to set your endorsement to these writings? ... {2SM 94.3}
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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: kland]
#186953
06/30/18 09:35 AM
06/30/18 09:35 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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But Isaiah warns that there will be those who hearing , hear not, and seeing , see not.
But it is not up to me to convince anyone of the rightness of my prophetic understand. I can share only what I know when I know it and the Holy Spirit is given to lead us into truth.
Hmmmm......Demeaning those who disagree with oneself. Hmmmm......Seems similar to something. I heard a sermon about how Ellen White warns us of deceptions coming in the last days. Deceptions that if it were possible (but we are told beforehand) to deceive the elect. She gives examples of such in the first 10 chapters of Selected messages. Should we not read them? I chose to start reading them. Here are some selected passages I believe applies here. It's best to read the 10 chapters yourself. I warn the Seventh-day Adventist Church to be careful how you receive every new notion and those who claim to have great light. The character of their work seems to be to accuse and to tear down. {2SM 69.2}
During the past forty-five years, I have had to meet persons claiming to have from God messages of reproof to others. This phase of religious fanaticism has sprung up again and again since 1844. Satan has worked in many ways to establish error. Some things spoken in these visions came to pass; but many things--in regard to the time of Christ's coming, the end of probation, and the events to take place--proved utterly false, as your prophesyings and Anna's have done. Yet they would try to excuse the blunders by twisting the statements about, and giving them another meaning, and go on in the same way, deceiving and being deceived. {2SM 75.2}
In one place, four in one family professed to have communications from the Lord, reproving wrong, and they predicted things that actually did take place. This inspired confidence in them. But the things that did not take place were kept in the dark, or were treated as something mysterious, which would be understood later. Whence did these receive their inspiration?--From satanic agencies, which are many. The Lord laid it upon me to meet these things, and bear a decided testimony against them.... {2SM 76.4}
I was asked how this could be if the visions were all false. I told them that it was Satan's purpose to mingle truth with error, that through these deceptive exercises he might make of none effect the genuine work of God. From that time all their many visions ceased. What has become of those who had the visions, and those who encouraged them? Several now living are skeptics, have no belief in the gifts of the church, no faith in the truth, no religion at all. Such, I have been shown, is the sure result of spurious visions. {2SM 77.4}
The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. "Where there is no vision, the people perish" (Proverbs 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony. He will bring in spurious visions to mislead, and will mingle the false with the true, and so disgust people that they will regard everything that bears the name of visions as a species of fanaticism; but honest souls, by contrasting false and true, will be enabled to distinguish between them.... {2SM 78.2}
Not once should feeling be allowed to get the mastery over judgment. There is danger of excess in that which is lawful, and that which is not lawful will surely lead into false paths. If there is not careful, earnest, sensible work, solid as a rock, in the advancement of every idea and principle, and in every representation given, souls will be ruined.... The greatest care should be exercised concerning those who claim to receive revelations from God. There needs to be much close watching and much praying. Those who are acting a part in the great work for these last days need to counsel together in regard to every new thing that shall be introduced, for no one man's mind is to be left to judge of, or to place before the public, important matters which have a relation to the cause of God.--Letter 6a, 1894. {2SM 91.2}
A curb must be kept upon the spiritual impulse, that no injudicious words shall be spoken, no overwrought ideas expressed, that shall cause impulsive persons to lose their bearings. There are some whose feelings are quickly stirred by strong assertions, and their imagination magnifies the statement to large dimensions; it all appears real to them, and they become fanatical. The spiritual experience is fevered, diseased. When persons yield their will in perfect submission to the will of God, and the spirit is humble and teachable, the Lord will correct them by His Holy Spirit, and lead them into safe paths.--Letter 66, 1894. {2SM 93.3}
But not teachable about Greek letters? There are many things I shall not say now, which it will be necessary to say hereafter. While I would do nothing to hurt this sister, I would not dare to keep silent.... I am placed in a peculiar position, and this matter should never have been so treated as to make it necessary for me to speak on such a subject. It hurts my heart to do it, and were it not that I see the future dangers, I would not utter one word in regard to the matter, but would let it develop, and leave my brethren and sisters to pursue their own course in regard to these manifestations, which are not at all peculiar.... I fail to see in the writings of Sister Phillips anything of a character that should create such movements as have been made. And if things of this nature are to be so eagerly grasped, you will have plenty of them, varied in some respects, yet such as you could treat with as much confidence. I am so sorry, so sorry. {2SM 94.2}
You seem to think I should be able to point out just where the particularly objectionable sentiments lie. There is nothing so very apparent in that which has been written; you have been able to discover nothing objectionable; but this is no reason for using these writings as you have done. Your course in this matter is decidedly objectionable. Is it necessary that you should discern at once something that would produce harm to the people of God, to make you cautious? If nothing of this kind appears, is this a sufficient reason for you to set your endorsement to these writings? ... {2SM 94.3} Wow! What a promise! but honest souls, by contrasting false and true, will be enabled to distinguish between them.... {2SM 78.2}
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: Charity]
#186956
06/30/18 12:23 PM
06/30/18 12:23 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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What a warning too! He will bring in spurious visions to mislead, and will mingle the false with the true, and so disgust people that they will regard everything that bears the name of visions as a species of fanaticism; but honest souls, by contrasting false and true, will be enabled to distinguish between them.... {2SM 78.2}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: APL]
#186957
06/30/18 08:35 PM
06/30/18 08:35 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,705
Canada
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What a warning too! He will bring in spurious visions to mislead, and will mingle the false with the true, and so disgust people that they will regard everything that bears the name of visions as a species of fanaticism; but honest souls, by contrasting false and true, will be enabled to distinguish between them.... {2SM 78.2}
Good quotes warning against speculative re-interpretations and visions. Because the times repeatedly set [Bush is the last president, Obama is the last president, etc.)have passed, the world is in a more decided state of unbelief than before in regard to the near advent of Christ. They look upon the failures of the time-setters with disgust, and because men have been so deceived, (by the failed messages) they turn from the truth substantiated by the Word of God [they not only reject the failed message, they also turn away from the TRUE prophetic message] that the end of all things is at hand.--4T 307 (1879).
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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: Charity]
#186958
06/30/18 08:45 PM
06/30/18 08:45 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,705
Canada
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Aren't we rather off topic --
What is the connect of Daniel 9 (specifically vs. 24) and the 144,000?
What I see is that Daniel 9 is speaking of Christ's FIRST coming when He ratified and confirmed the covenant of salvation with His sacrifice upon the cross. Thus bringing in the means for righteousness by faith which puts an end to sin in all who accept Him as Lord and Savior.
The 144,000 are the final fruit of this great salvation, as they stand victorious with Christ when the time has come for salvation's plan to reap the final harvest.
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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: Charity]
#186964
07/01/18 02:01 AM
07/01/18 02:01 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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Oh that none of us would be found in this camp. Satan has been encouraged in his special work for this time. Those who have erred in the past, and have not humbled themselves to fully confess their wrongs and make them right, will continue to move in their own spirit. They will call truth error and error truth. These workers will eventually be found on Satan’s side of the controversy. . . . {CTr 140.5} Jesus repeatedly tells us to WATCH. Mt 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. I am making every effort to do that. And share what I find. But I took the feedback that has been posted here … to those who are actually reading my book. A doctor reported that he has finished my book and is going to help distribute it because this is a book that everyone should read. after reading it, he bought a country home and is in process of moving out of the city. Another reader (raised a Catholic became a SDA 30 years ago). States that the only problem with my book that he has found so far is that he picks it up to read a little bit and then he cannot put it down. 2 hours go by before he realizes it. he told me today. "Anybody who would find fault with this book, has not read it." I heard two men speak on Bible prophecy this afternoon. One man is here from Germany "on vacation." The other lives between 2-3 hr from me. They both agree on major points in my book. There are people in other parts of the world who are studying Bible prophecy and discovering the same things that I have been discovering.
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000
[Re: dedication]
#186965
07/01/18 09:43 AM
07/01/18 09:43 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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Aren't we rather off topic --
What is the connect of Daniel 9 (specifically vs. 24) and the 144,000?
What I see is that Daniel 9 is speaking of Christ's FIRST coming when He ratified and confirmed the covenant of salvation with His sacrifice upon the cross. Thus bringing in the means for righteousness by faith which puts an end to sin in all who accept Him as Lord and Savior.
The 144,000 are the final fruit of this great salvation, as they stand victorious with Christ when the time has come for salvation's plan to reap the final harvest.
The same prophecy speaks of His second coming. As the message of Christ's first advent announced the kingdom of His grace, so the message of His second advent announces the kingdom of His glory. And the second message, like the first, is based on the prophecies. The words of the angel to Daniel relating to the last days were to be understood in the time of the end. At that time, "many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." "The wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." Daniel 12:4, 10. The Saviour Himself has given signs of His coming, and He says, "When ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand." "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares." "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Luke 21:31, 34, 36. {DA 234.4}
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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