Revelation 12 also has a time line - the 1260 days are mentioned twice - 12:6 and 12, but you acknowledge that the prophecy of Satan's defeat spans the whole battle of the controversy. So a time line in a prophecy doesn't bar it from having a broader application. Christ is still the Messiah, the anointed one today as He was during the 70 weeks. Because of His faithfulness, His anointing is irrevocable.

One last question Dedication. Do you think Uriah Smith's explanation of events in 408 BC, quoted earlier, is an accurate fulfillment of the initial seven weeks of the 70 week period? If yes, why and if no how was it fulfilled? Or do you think we simply ignore it. If so, do you think that's safe?

I fail to see how moving the last week way beyond 34AD keeps it contiguous.

An interesting thought. Let's see how you apply it to the future, to see if it fits.

I'm suggesting that the prophecy itself could have two parts, the 70 weeks portion ends at verse 26 and the end times final week is covered in verse 27, in the same way that the prophecies in Matthew 24 apply to Jerusalem and 70AD, but also apply to the end. One thing is clear to me - there is an end time application in the final verse because the last half applies primarily to the end in the same way that parts of Matthew 24 can only apply to the end.

I have some ideas regarding a final application in literal time but it wouldn't be productive to share them now.

Revelation 12 has a definite timeline within it's coverage of the Great Controversy. That timeline itself is not about Satan's defeat, but about the time when he almost wipes the apostolic Christian church off the map.

Revelation 12
Part A
The pregnant woman (God's people prior to Christ's coming) is completely outside of the "timeline". Dragon attempts to stop Christ's successful mission of coming to this earth.

Part B
The fleeing woman after Christ's coming (this is depicted in the timeline)
1260 years when freedom of religion was not part of church/state control.

Part X
Describes Satan's progressive defeat ( outside the timeline) Though it is the believer's assurance of victory all through history.

Part B2
Returns to the fleeing woman (is depicted in the timeline)
The 1260 years of church/state control.

Part A2 The dragon's final war against the remnant. (again outside of the timeline)

We don't reapply the timeline.
We see the 1260 year timeline as a specific era of time within the whole depiction presented.

The same with the 70 weeks.
Daniel nine covers conditions and continuing effects outside of the seventy weeks, (490 years).

However, the seventy weeks themselves are a definite time period within the salvation's history.

Beginning with the decree, followed by seven weeks or 49 years, of trouble as they seek to rebuild and regain national status, then 62 weeks or 434 years of existing as a nation, finally the Messiah comes to ratify the covenant of salvation.
The final week or seven years. 3 1/2 years to the cross when Jesus fully confirmed the covenant, then another 3 1/2 years till the Jewish nation rejected the covenant.

Thus ends the seventy weeks.
It's not the time line that pops up again somewhere else.
It's the effects that go on.




Yes, for sure!! Christ as our savior continues. However Christ's anointing took place in 27 A.D. at Christ's baptism, the beginning of the seventh week.
The prophecy predicts the point in time when the anointing takes place. (see Acts 10:38)



In a previous post I tried to explain that. See here

I only glanced at U.Smith's account.

The command that would re-establish Jerusalem as a kingdom with certain legislative rights was given in 457 B.C.
The seven weeks or (7 X7 = 49) forty nine years, scripture says were "troublous times" it was the time when the streets and walls were rebuilt.
We can read about those troublous times in the books 0f Ezra and Nehemiah.
In 408 BC Jerusalem was no longer lying in ruins, it's walls and streets were rebuild and restored. It was again the "capital" of Judea.

Nehemiah not only organized the rebuilding of the walls, he also established their government. His work was finished in 408 BC when he left Jerusalem.


Here is a bit of a time sequence.

538 BC
The first group of returning Jews arrived in Jerusalem. Around 536 BC they laid the foundations for the temple, but work ceased and by 320 they pretty much had to start over, yet they had a temple up by 516 BC. Due to the opposition of the local population, it took twenty years to build the temple structure, but building almost stopped as the returned ones mainly set up their own homes in the surrounding country side.

516
Though there was a temple built, Jerusalem was still basically in ruins and it's walls in heaps of rubble, and Judea was definitely not a sovereign nation.

457 BC Ezra arrives with the decree
From that point on there was serious building, as well as serious opposition to their building. But the walls remained in heaps.

444 BC
Nehemiah arrives
Rebuilds the walls,
Encourages people to make their homes in Jerusalem itself.

432 BC
Nehemiah Restores Laws

Nehemiah spent 12 years as governor of Jerusalem, then leaves for a time, and then returns to find a lot of "apostasy.
He spends more time governing in order to get Judea on the right track.

That the 3.5 years, 1260 days has a literal, end-time application is clear from Revelation 13:

Dedication, we have to let the plain meaning of the word speak or we'll be found in the class that adds to or takes away from the prophetic word. An unbiased child or novice reading Revelation 12 would say the 1260 days there occurred before the mortal wound of the beast and the 42 months in Revelation 13 occurs after the wound is healed. I say, Church, young people, be prepared for a 42 month reign of the beast. This imo is the final half of the final week of Daniel 9. I underline, be prepared.


In failing to give weight to the details of the prophecy you are doing the same here Dedication. The prophecy says an anointed prince will appear after the first seven weeks and Ezekiel says that can only be fulfilled by Christ. In 408 Nehemiah did not fulfill this aspect. I can see why you read it as you do. What concerns me is the bias of opinion that prevents so many from acknowledging the possibility that it may mean just what it appears to say.

That the beast (papal power) through the image of the beast (American religious right) will unite church and state and enforce religion with global aims, I totally agree will happen. That this will result in terrible persecution will also happen. That's been part of our understanding all along.

Prepare -- yes -- not questioning that at all. It is coming.

However, we've been told repeatedly NOT to put time frames on end time events. And I'm convinced more than ever that to do so will lead into serious deceptions.

Yes, history repeats, but not prophetic timelines.

Yes, by studying history we can know something about the players and their methods when they "take to the field" in the end time, but the timelines do not repeat.

Prophetic time was realized in literal time, the 1260 days/ 42 months/ time/times and half, are all symbolic numbers to denote a literal 1260 years.

To make the symbolic numbers themselves literal doesn't even work. A literal 42 months is more like 1277 days not 1260 days. Why the different symbols -- to show that they are symbolic--symbolic numbers to denote a literal 1260 years.


Your last thoughts really trouble me.



I fully agree that "the anointed Prince" or MESSIAH, can only be Christ. On that point we agree!

What is troubling is that it appears that you are rerunning the 70 week prophecy and having Christ come after the first 7 weeks, before the 62 weeks???? If that is the case then it is a clear set-up (opening the door) which would lead to the greatest deception of the "temporary kingdom" in the present world for the one pretending to be Christ to make his appearance.

Also Daniel 9:25 is only partially quoted ==

Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks and threescore and two weeks


Why did you leave off the threescore and two weeks?
A full prophetic 69 weeks or 483 years would pass from 457 BC till the Messiah's anointing at his baptism, would take place!

The first seven weeks were fulfilling the decree to restore the nation of Judea which was in total ruins when Daniel received the vision.

Decree to restore Israel's capital 457 BC
Seven weeks (49 years) of opposition till restoration achieved.
457 - 408
Another 62 weeks (434 years) till Messiah was anointed in 27 A.D. at His baptism. (Acts 10:37-38)
A week in which Christ was confirming the covenant with Jerusalem (and for the world)
During that last week -- He was crucified in the midst of the week. And at the end the stoning of Stephen signified the nation's rejection of the covenant. 34 AD

Charity, do you then agree that the first seven weeks is NOT clear that it relates to the coming of the Prince? Because I've been thinking about this and reading the text and like APL, it is very clear to me that verse 25 says nothing about a Prince coming after the first 7 weeks, but after 7 weeks and 69 weeks. What happened after 7 weeks is up for discussion but in no way invalidates the prophecy of the prince.

Revelation 12:1-4 pre-Incarnation context: pregnant Woman was in wilderness for 1260 years prior to Christ's birth. Beginning at Egypt's death decree in Moses' Day the 1260 days that are years end when Christ was born.

The fulfilment of the 1260 days repeat in Christ's 1260 day/3.5 year ministry.

Then 12:6 states that the woman goes into the wilderness for 1260
years after Christ ascends to heaven. These are from 538 to 1798.

Then Revelation 13:5 cites a new time period that has been thought to be the latter, as 42 months. This 42 months can rightly be applied to 538-1798, but it's final complete fulfillment is in the endtime according to EGW. (a specific time prophecy that is to intervene between 1844 and Christ's Advent:





Ellen White places the 42 months in the future a second time:

In the OT there are a number of Messianic prophecies that speak of the Branch that parallel those in Daniel 9. In these the royal, kingship element is combined with the priesthood, both offices being conferred by anointing, therefore Messianic. We tend to view the Messiah more as priest, but in the OT types the two roles are equally present.

The prophecies of the Branch in Zechariah are especially interesting to me because they point forward to the latter rain. According to Ellen White, the early rain came to the early church upon the heavenly coronation and glorification of Christ as king and priest at Pentecost. This will be repeated at the latter rain when the Lamb, the sacrifice and priest is once again honored as such and also as the Lion King of the tribe of Judah. This occurs when the Lamb takes the seven sealed book from the Father's hand and breaks the seals. This event is typified in Zechariah's prophecies of the Branch, and foreshadowed in Daniel 9.

What I'm suggesting is that the first seven weeks of Daniel 9 have a purpose – to help us identify in our day when the Lamb takes the book and when Christ is once again glorified at the latter rain.

The reason we can know that these prophecies of the Branch apply to the end is that Ezekiel and all of the prophets have said that these can only be fulfilled by the true King of the Israel of God. This is confirmed in the last verse below: “And they that are far off [the final generation] shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.”

What my studies have concluded is that Daniel 9 identifies the day that President Bush II was anointed as the Protestant counterfeit Prince of the Covenant and thus President Obama as his successor was the last American President identified in Bible prophecy until prophecy met it's fulfillment.

Now that the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation have explained themselves by their fulfillment in these last days, I understand that when President Trump leaves office, President Michael Pence will stand for his people and Michael (Christ) will stand for his people.


The #IranUSwar is about to commence (Daniel 11 Chittim...Iran attacks US fleet) and the final events will be rapid ones.