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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: Rick H]
#187829
11/14/18 01:29 PM
11/14/18 01:29 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Now Seventh-day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the beast" of Revelation 14 will be received on those who follow and those who actually believe on the false doctrines of the Beast which includes the change to Sunday worship instead of Saturday. The beast from the sea arrives at the shore of the land. " Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea ..." John says in Rev. 13:1. So it is coming towards this particular land; and of this beast, it was particularly said, " It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev. 13:7-8 - So, the first question is: what land was that land? And the answer is simply, unequivocally, VERY obviously: Israel. The beast was granted to make war with "the saints" and overcome them. It is Jerusalem being given over into the hands of Rome through Vespasian and his son Titus, both of whom were destined to ascend the throne of the empire.
- Secondly, what was going to be the response of those caught in Jerusalem? Well, according to the Revelation, a false prophet was going to arise and encourage obedience to Rome in a very brutal dictatorship. And this is where the mark of the beast comes into play. It is the currency of Rome that was going to be imposed on the citizens of Jerusalem, coinage with Caesar's "glorious name"; and Rome's demand that Caesar be worshiped.
- But Christians, true Christians were going to refuse and fall like flies. "Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them." Rev. 14:13.
And that is all there is to it. But do SDA care for the truth? They are like a man with a toothache who refuses the service of a dentist. Instead, they go through excruciating pain and tortuous contortions, mangling all the prophecies of God, vainly endeavouring to push the square pegs of their own fantasies into the round holes of what is written. ///
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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: Rick H]
#187830
11/15/18 02:31 PM
11/15/18 02:31 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,540
Midland
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One is reminded of His Child, picking very specific details of a scene and making a big issue of it. "Land" was not the point of the scene, but the beast and perhaps sea were. It doesn't mention "land"; you do. In fact, the beast was still in the sea, not on any land.
But going with your presumed "land" being a big issue, what makes you think "land" was Jerusalem? You said, "VERY obviously". Show us why we should assume that?
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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: kland]
#187831
11/15/18 07:20 PM
11/15/18 07:20 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
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Posts: 1,195
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"Land" was not the point of the scene, but the beast and perhaps sea were. It doesn't mention "land"; you do. In fact, the beast was still in the sea, not on any land. " Then I stood on the sand of the sea." Rev. 13:1 Was John standing in the middle of an ocean and on water? Look before you leap. ///
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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: James Peterson]
#187832
11/15/18 07:33 PM
11/15/18 07:33 PM
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FORMER-SDA Active Member 2018 Banned
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
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"Land" was not the point of the scene, but the beast and perhaps sea were. It doesn't mention "land"; you do. In fact, the beast was still in the sea, not on any land. " Then I stood on the sand of the sea." Rev. 13:1 Was John standing in the middle of an ocean and on water? Look before you leap. /// Still, ...kland has a point. You have not connected "standing on the sand of the sea" with Jerusalem. In fact, John was on the Isle of Patmos when he saw this vision, so the stronger argument would be that it refers to Patmos... Perhaps you should read before you leap...
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: JAK]
#187833
11/15/18 08:50 PM
11/15/18 08:50 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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"Land" was not the point of the scene, but the beast and perhaps sea were. It doesn't mention "land"; you do. In fact, the beast was still in the sea, not on any land. " Then I stood on the sand of the sea." Rev. 13:1 Was John standing in the middle of an ocean and on water? Look before you leap. /// Still, ...kland has a point. You have not connected "standing on the sand of the sea" with Jerusalem. In fact, John was on the Isle of Patmos when he saw this vision, so the stronger argument would be that it refers to Patmos... Perhaps you should read before you leap... Kland > "It doesn't mention 'land'; you do." Me > "Then I stood on the sand of the sea." Rev. 13:1. Was John standing in the middle of an ocean and on water? Look before you leap. Contrary to Kland's audacious claim, it does mention 'land'. ///
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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: James Peterson]
#187834
11/15/18 10:41 PM
11/15/18 10:41 PM
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FORMER-SDA Active Member 2018 Banned
Senior Member
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
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"Land" was not the point of the scene, but the beast and perhaps sea were. It doesn't mention "land"; you do. In fact, the beast was still in the sea, not on any land. " Then I stood on the sand of the sea." Rev. 13:1 Was John standing in the middle of an ocean and on water? Look before you leap. /// Still, ...kland has a point. You have not connected "standing on the sand of the sea" with Jerusalem. In fact, John was on the Isle of Patmos when he saw this vision, so the stronger argument would be that it refers to Patmos... Perhaps you should read before you leap... Kland > "It doesn't mention 'land'; you do." Me > "Then I stood on the sand of the sea." Rev. 13:1. Was John standing in the middle of an ocean and on water? Look before you leap. Contrary to Kland's audacious claim, it does mention 'land'. /// Are you struggling to keep up here, James? Despite your argument with kland, the point remains that you equate the land, or the sand (or whatever) to Jerusalem. The question is not if land is mentioned, but on what basis you think it refers to Jerusalem.
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: JAK]
#187835
11/15/18 11:40 PM
11/15/18 11:40 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Perhaps you should read before you leap...
Kland > "It doesn't mention 'land'; you do."
Me > "Then I stood on the sand of the sea." Rev. 13:1. Was John standing in the middle of an ocean and on water? Look before you leap.
Contrary to Kland's audacious claim, it does mention 'land'.
/// Are you struggling to keep up here, James? Despite your argument with kland, the point remains that you equate the land, or the sand (or whatever) to Jerusalem. The question is not if land is mentioned, but on what basis you think it refers to Jerusalem. The two of you are running on two different tracks. Kland is wondering about the 'land' and now you are wondering about equating the 'land' to Israel. Since this is in response to you, I will address your question that "upon what basis does the 'land' refer to Jerusalem, Israel?" As I pointed out previously, " It was granted to [the Beast of the Sea] to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation." Rev. 13:7 1. to make war ...2. to make war with the saints ...3. to make war with the saints AND overcome them!The saints were Israel, or as in Jesus' day, simply the Jews. And from the progression above, it becomes evident that the Jews were about to face war and lose, badly. This is why the vision has the Beast from the Sea and the Beast from the Land and the "Land" succumbing to the charm of the "Sea" and crushing anyone who would not worship the "Sea" or his Image. Eventually though, the invasion will occur and the 'Land' would be washed away by the "Sea". Rev. 17 ///
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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: James Peterson]
#187836
11/15/18 11:54 PM
11/15/18 11:54 PM
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FORMER-SDA Active Member 2018 Banned
Senior Member
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
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Thank you for that explanation, James. I now see where you are coming from. I don't agree with your view, but I understand it.
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: JAK]
#187837
11/16/18 12:44 AM
11/16/18 12:44 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Thank you for that explanation, James. I now see where you are coming from. I don't agree with your view, but I understand it. Who are "the saints" then that are given over into war and desolation (Dan. 9:26), in your opinion? ///
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Re: What will the Image of the Beast entail...
[Re: James Peterson]
#187838
11/16/18 02:25 AM
11/16/18 02:25 AM
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FORMER-SDA Active Member 2018 Banned
Senior Member
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
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As Daniel and Revelation reference end-time events, the "saints" refer to God's people at the end of time. This could include Jews, Christians, and any who confess Christ.
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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