Renaming truth and likening it to an error and then tossing it out with the error is a straw man argument that will deceive some of the people some of the time, but it will not fool all of the people
all of the time.

By the way, who said probation closed?

I agree -- the "close of probation" is the "shut door" idea.
However, the "shut door" did not "spin off" the investigative judgment.
The Millerites believed Christ would come in 1844, and probation would be over. People would be either saved or lost.
The investigative judgment wasn't even understood at that point.

The "shut door" came from their understanding of the ten virgins who fell asleep waiting for the bride groom. The five that ran out of oil, ran to buy some, but when they got back, the door was shut, they could not go in.
It was taught by a lot of Millerites that never accepted the "Sabbath/Sanctuary" teachings of those who later became Seventh-day Adventists. A great variety of views were held by various groups of Millerite Adventists, who adhered to the "Shut Door," and it created great confusion after 1844. The term "shut door", to the Millerites meant, "no more mercy for sinners?"

For the small group that would later be called Seventh-day Adventists, it was actually the sanctuary doctrine that showed a door of mercy for sinners was still open.
They turned to Revelation 3, where it talks about a door being shut and another door being opened.

And...that added nothing to help me better understand the issues involved.

That's true. The idea of probation actually predates SDA Adventism.

So why was the physical thing in heaven, for what purpose?




Hmmm. I might be kind of understanding what you're saying. You're saying there is a choice time, regardless of whether it affects works, but that time is not prior to the END.

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Who are the dead, when did they die, and why?

I apologize for the lack of helpfulness of my post in reply to yours.
The response was how I read it at the time.
Would you like me to revisit it?

There are many people who hear that the time allotted for the Judgment of the dead and living have ended and say that it means that "probation has closed." That is their perception, not reality.

We are in the sealing time of the 144,000, the final shaking, and only when Christ states "it is done, let the filthy be filthy still, and the righteous be righteous still" will probation close.

God's people cannot receive the out pouring of the Holy Spirit to seal them if they have not been judged any more than Christ can return and bring His reward with Him if the world has not been judged before He comes.

That is an interesting question, since in Revelation 21:22 John says he did NOT see a temple in heaven. "I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." On the other hand Revelation 11:19 says there IS a temple: "19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

IMO, what Moses saw as a pattern was a physical representation of spiritual concepts. Exodus 25: says he actually saw the pattern on the mountain, and not in heaven: "40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount."

So, because the newly formed Hebrew nation needed a religion different from the Egyptians and surrounding nations, God called Moses up onto the mountain and outlined ("showed him") the religion, the temple, the rites and rituals, etc. (ie: "the Law") for Moses to pass on to the people.

This religious system DID (seem to) have symbolic elements of a coming savior*, but apparently this aspect was not revealed to Moses, or, if it was, he was instructed not to share that with the people.

* The 5 books of Moses describe the sanctuary, the services, rites and rituals, the laws, the penalties, prescribed sacrifices, etc. but there is not a single reference to any forward-looking symbolism of Christ in the sanctuary system.

I'm not sure what you mean by this phrase, as I believe the time open for choosing extends right up to the actual physical see-Him-in-the-sky second coming of Christ.

I believe that based on the following:
1. By definition, God knows everything. (He is omniscient) This includes people's hearts. (1 Samuel 16:7 "...for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." and others)
2. It is God who judges. (Isaiah 33:22: "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; it is he who will save us."
3. There may be those who's first knowledge of God will be his second coming. Although Scripture says "this gospel will be preached in all the world," this may or may not indicate that ALL INDIVIDUALS will hear and have a chance to decide. With a current population of about 7 Billion, and a growth rate of 1.07% yearly, the World Population Clock estimates that 82 million people are being added to Earth's population every year. Is the spread of the gospel exceeding, or even keeping up to, that rate? Not to mention those who have already died without knowing about God. *

* This opens a huge "can-of-worms" which is not the thrust of this thread or discussion.

I should have said final choice.

but that time [of final choice] is not prior to the END.

I have been studying.

1) #IranUSwar
2) President trump gets the boot
3) Michael stands for his people
4) Michael stands for His people