HC, since you acknowledge the inspiration of Ellen White you have a duty to treat her writings as inspired which means allowing them to speak with their full intended meaning. We know from the inspired sources that 1) the judgment of the living is not over 2) that the latter rain has not fallen in its full measure and 3) that the three angels' messages will be repeated in power.

Regarding the last point recall that the first angel's message is that the hour of judgment has come. But you are saying it has passed. I hope you'll consider the seriousness of taking away from the message. "If any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Rev 22:19. In denying that we are now in the "hour of His judgment", you have left the fear of God behind you in favor of your own message. We all need to reacquire that healthy fear and realign ourselves with the first angel who commands us to fear God. We want to be united in these messages under the leadership of Christ.

Charity. The Judgment Hour did not end while Ellen White was alive. So please give evidence that the judgment hour of the living did not end after she died in 1915. On 14 February 2013 when the hour allotted to the ten kings to bond with the papacy ended, the time allotted for the Judgment of the living ended.



The 3 angels messages are being repeated in power: Babylon is fallen...the RC fell due to its priests' fornication scandal...come out of her My people. The Hour of His Judgment has ended..."reward unto her double" (dispense her reward...seal God's people and anoint them with the Holy Spirit). The Fourth Angel is SOUNDING NOW!



You made a great point so let's review the 3 angels messages.
In Rev 14 they are
1 The hour of His Judgment is come
2 Babylon has fallen
3 Don't take the Mark of the Beast

When they are repeated the sequencing is different

2 Babylon has fallen
1 The hour of His Judgment is come
3 Don't take the Mark of the Beast




Notice that after the second angel's message of the fall of Babylon (in conjunction with the priests' fornication scandal) sounds the first angel's message sounds. It does not come before it here in Rev 18 as it did in Rev 14.

The judgment hour message in Revelation 18 is "For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double." 18:5-6 This is a message of the hour of dispensing the reward after the Judgment Hour is done.




The message that God is dispensing the reward cannot be proclaimed until those who are to receive their reward have been judged.

This was not a message that could be proclaimed when the Judgment Hour began, but it can be proclaimed now that the time allotted has ended.



That ONE HOUR was the Judgment Hour of the Living when the church/state papacy was alive from the Day of Atonement 14 October 1929 until Pope Benedict resigned 14 February 2013 when the one pope at a time papacy became a two living pope papacy.


You have a good mind. Your comments are encouraging me to study more to be sure I get it right. And I am very interested on your perception. That is why God tells us to reason together, study together, and pray together and for each other.

What do you think was the purpose of the sanctuary during the Jew's time, what do you think was the ultimate purpose of that picture?

Could it also be a time period whether you accept or reject something with nothing to do with skill or ability but with choice?

BINGO!

The purpose of the sanctuary is given in Scripture: "Then have them make a sanctuary for me, and I will dwell among them." Exodus 25:8.
Does the sanctuary point forward to Christ's sacrifice? Yes. But that is our perspective years after the events.
Did the Jews in the time of the sanctuary understand it that way? IMO, No. Some few, perhaps, like certain Bible writers. But the majority, NO.


No. That is free choice.

By the very nature of the term it indicates a proving time. The idea of a "probation" is the result of a works-based theology, where one must prove to God that you are "good enough" to take to heaven. I reject all forms of works-based religion, including the idea of perfectionism, and a probation, a close of probation, and a time period where one must live a perfect life without a mediator. All these ideas are the result of the very unfortunate (and incorrect) Investigative Judgement doctrine.

Like you I post my new ideas here from time to time in order to have them critiqued. That's a good idea. I've given you my perspective and it hasn't seemed to influence your thinking. For example in the post above you defended your position that the judgment of the living is past. Since we've been admonished not to debate or become involved in "doubtful disputations" but in contrast to share and teach, it's not good for either of us to belabor our views. I've shared mine but if you have any questions let me know. I'll be grateful for your prayers. You're in mine.

Ex 25:9 "According to all that I show you, that is, the pattern of the tabernacle and the pattern of all its furnishings, just so you shall make it.

Pattern. Could be a paper blueprint. Or an idea. Or it could be referring to something that he saw.

Heb 8:1 ¶ Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer.
4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law;
5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, "See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."

Would you be saying that the main point of things was kept hidden from the Jews, that Moses in no way indicated to them that what they were making was a pattern of heavenly things?


Are you saying free choice does not involve works? That free choice only influences your mind and that your mind does not influence your works?



What do you say the following is trying to get across to us? And would you say the "proving time" is over for those it's referring to?

Re 20:11 ¶ Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Seems pretty clear to me that Moses copied a physical item he saw in heaven, and there is no hint regarding the larger meaning. The Hebrew made items according to the pattern Moses gave them, then used these items to worship in the prescribed way. This was their religion; it centered on the sanctuary and the rites performed there. Nowhere in the OT does it equate the lamb offered as sacrifice to a coming savior. It was just the lamb for their sins. Nor does it speak at all about a probation or close of probation.

Of course they knew it was a pattern of heavenly things; Moses wrote that in a book. What he DID NOT write was that these things pointed to a larger picture or coming savior.

Whether free choice involves works does not bear on whether or not there is a probation.

There is no "proving time." Only a "choosing time," which is over only at the judgement. There is no time on earth during which "probation is closed." If there are people living, they have a choice. It remains open for all time until the judgement at the second coming.

The more I examine a supposed close of probation the more I realise that it is simply the old "Shut Door" doctrine in a new form, and projected to the end of time. The Shut Door doctrine was a spin-off of the unfortunate Investigative Judgement doctrine. So one sees that many false and incorrect understandings stem from that one false doctrine.

The Scripture says let us reason together. I have shown that the hour allotted to the papacy is 83 years 4 months (beginning with the dead papacy and repeating with the living papacy). You appear to not believe it, but you have not given any evidence to show an error in the prophetic time. Without your due diligence in presenting evidence, why would you think that I would give up something that is true? Discussing facts to reach a consensus is not debating.