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Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? #188236
01/12/19 04:53 PM
01/12/19 04:53 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Let's study the 144K and be inspired. We're told in scripture about these heroes of faith for that purpose. But how many of us have said openly or in our hearts, "No thanks, I'd much rather be one of the great multitude and not go through that ordeal." Yet there they are still challenging us. I believe the Spirit is inviting us to step forward and be among them. True it is a challenge indeed, but how deep is our love for the Lord? What love that he would honor this group as no other, not even the angels who delight to execute his commands and fulfill His will. I hope an army of youth who are often more ready to face a challenge than mature men rise to the challenge.

In Adventism we're up to about 20 million members now - more than the entire population of many countries. I remember when I was younger, the entire population of Canada was that amount. Of course 20 million is small relative to the world's 7.7 billion as of January 2019. 7.7b divided by 20m is 385 which is the number of people for every Adventist. As a percentage, Adventists make up less than a third of one percent of the world's population.

Of the 20 million, if one in twenty among us (according to inspiration the ratio of wise virgins to unwise was between 1 and 20 and 1 and 100 in her day) are rousable, that's 1,000,000. The Lord turned the world upside down with 12 apostles. Think what He could do with 1,000,000.

But that ratio was in her day. Let's say the ratio today is 1 in 200. That's still 100,000. If the 144k is a literal number (I think it is but it may not be) 100K is probably a better estimate of Israel's strength but still on the high side because a good share of the 144k that give the final three angels messages will be eleventh hour workers especially from among the Jews, Catholics and Evangelicals and other backgrounds as well.

But demographics aside, to start this out, what I want to explore is my claim above that the 144k are pictured at the start of Revelation 14 to inspire us with the reward that awaits everyone who cooperates with God in giving those three messages. Further, it's my view that giving the messages is what purifies or generates the 144k. The two are inseparable imo, but what do you all think?


Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188237
01/13/19 12:08 AM
01/13/19 12:08 AM
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Hope of reward - is that your motivation?

Christ's example shows us that a work of necessity is something which one does for another, without hope of reward, and without thought of self; and He says: "If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." Will you do it?

As for demographics: All the preaching in the world will not make men feel deeply the need of the perishing souls around them. Nothing will so arouse in men and women a self-sacrificing zeal as to send them forth into new fields to work for those in darkness. Prepare workers to go out into the highways and hedges. Do not call men and women to the great center, encouraging them to leave churches that need their aid. Men must learn to bear responsibilities. Not one in a hundred among us is doing anything beyond engaging in common, worldly enterprises. We are not half awake to the worth of the souls for whom Christ died. {8T 147.4}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188239
01/13/19 03:27 AM
01/13/19 03:27 AM
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“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.” Revelation 1:3. People who speak of not going through the time of trouble are looking at the trial and not the Refiner and His perfect work. But, these 144,000 are without fault. “And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God“ Revelation 14:5. Most people are not willing to be Refined and stand perfectly with God. But, God has appointed elect in the past- ie 12 disciples. “Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!” He will again. All we have to do is surrender and say, “Here am I, send me.” Isaiah 6:8. God will not arm an army that is not ready to serve.


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188240
01/13/19 03:36 AM
01/13/19 03:36 AM
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The former rain has never stoooed pouring. God wants to endow us with the former and latter rain. But, who is out there combing through the Bible regularly, consecrating themselves regularly, doing miracles for God- casting out demons, healing the sick, restoring blind eyes and raising the dead? All these miracles followed Jesus’ disciples/apostles so that the people would believe their report. The gospel, thus was taken around the known world by the work of God’s apostles who were endowed with various spiritual gifts —-after Jesus’ ascension. The time is now for the church to rise up. God is waiting on us.


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Laodicean] #188247
01/13/19 02:27 PM
01/13/19 02:27 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Laodicean
The former rain has never stoooed pouring. God wants to endow us with the former and latter rain. But, who is out there combing through the Bible regularly, consecrating themselves regularly, doing miracles for God- casting out demons, healing the sick, restoring blind eyes and raising the dead? All these miracles followed Jesus’ disciples/apostles so that the people would believe their report. The gospel, thus was taken around the known world by the work of God’s apostles who were endowed with various spiritual gifts —-after Jesus’ ascension. The time is now for the church to rise up. God is waiting on us.


Amen to both your posts and a hearty welcome to Maritime.

Interesting that you point out the need for spiritual gifts on a Pentecostal scale and greater. I deeply feel the same need. Let's pray earnestly for it. The Lord wants to give it to us and He'll do that as soon as we're clean vessels capable of receiving it. Your name "Laodicean" indicates to me that you're on the right track in terms of acknowledging our problem. It was effective in making me reflect on my own condition. Again, Welcome.

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Laodicean] #188248
01/13/19 02:35 PM
01/13/19 02:35 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Laodicean, the following article was written in 2009 by Dr. Colin Standish (1933 to 2018), the final part of his book, Perfection. Dr. Standish was a co-founder and president of Hartland Institute established in 1984. Colin Standish passed to his rest on October 29, 2018. This is the Standish solution for disunity in the Church. It's also the solution in my view for receiving the gifts. See what you think of it and I'd be glad to hear your thoughts.

Quote:
In recent times, with the doctrinal and lifestyle dissonance within our Church, there has been strong cries for unity. Unity is essential before God’s servants can give the loud cry of Revelation 18:1-5. This gospel reaches to every nook and cranny of the world. Then our Lord and Saviour will appear to redeem His waiting saints. We know that Jesus will not come until the gospel commission has been taken to every nation, kindred, tongue and people (Matthew 24:14). Though there have been remarkable efforts by the Seventh-day Adventist Church to share this message around the world, we must acknowledge the reality that the overwhelming majority of the inhabitants of this world have never heard the name Seventh-day Adventists, much less the thrilling gospel that God has entrusted to this Church as the depository of His truth at the end of time.

Yet we know that Christ’s invitation will not be given to all the world until God’s people are empowered by the Holy Spirit. We have been promised a power greater than Pentecost. So dramatic was the presentation of the message under the power of Pentecost, that Paul was able to report before the fall of Jerusalem that the gospel “was preached to every creature which is under heaven” (Colossians 1:23). Unity preceded Pentecost:

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place (Acts 2:1).

That same unity is necessary at the end of time before God can entrust His people with the Holy Spirit.

I have listened to many sermons on unity, and have witnessed the efforts to make unity the central theme of the 1995 General Conference session. Many of those addressing the issue of unity have quoted the beautiful message of Jesus in His unity prayer:

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me (John 17:21).

Those sermons to which I have listened have, however, singularly failed to address the sole basis upon which this unity can be achieved. So important is this principle of unity, however, that Christ emphasized it twice in His prayer:

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth (John 17:17). And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth (John 17:19).

Until God’s people are sanctified, there will not be unity. Every other call is a call for a counterfeit unity, for such calls are predicated upon that which will destroy unity. Frequently, these are calls to compromise, consensus, or the silencing of truth. God cannot bring genuine unity under false circumstances. So important is this matter that Sister White wrote:

Unity is the sure result of Christian perfection. —Sanctified Life, p. 85

Unity is not a goal, as it is often presented to be. It is the natural result of Christian perfection. Sadly, the wide-spread teaching of the “sin and live” theology has robbed our people of unity. Only a full response to church-wide calls for revival, repentance, and reformation will result in unity. The return of Jesus depends upon it. However, not all church members will respond to Christ’s call. The final shaking brought about by persecution will remove all who continue in worldliness and selfishness. The truth must be held sacred. The pluralistic, eclectic, ecumenical, evangelical thrust that is bombarding the Seventh-day Adventist Church is designed to derail this church from its God-given mission. The servant of the Lord says:

There is no sanctification aside from truth. —Fundamentals of Christian Education, p. 432

If we are to achieve that perfect unity necessary for the pouring out of the latter rain, God’s people must hold the truth sacred. But more than this, they must allow the truth to be translated into the very fabric of their lives, bringing the sanctifying principle of God’s love. Thus Paul emphasized:

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ (Ephesians 4:13-15).

Peter puts it in the most beautiful terms:

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently; Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever (1 Peter 1:22, 23).

There is no other way to hasten the coming of Jesus Christ. The Sanctuary message is designed to lead to the justification and sanctification of God’s people, the blotting out their sins, and the uniting of the lives of men and women in God’s truth, providing their title and fitness for heaven. There is NO other way.

Perhaps the greatest challenge that faces Seventh-day Adventist preachers and teachers is to present the concept of perfection within the context of Christ our Righteousness. This centrality of Christ points men and women to the matchless claims of Christ upon their lives and service; a claim validated by the love of God demonstrated on Calvary, and proven through the mercy and long-suffering that He has shown to His people. Perfection presented in a legalistic or Christless fashion will avail nothing. Only as the centrality of the love and power of Jesus is presented in the most winning and attractive way, can we hope to see men and women drawn from, on the one hand, the legalism of human effort, and on the other, from the false security that Christ did it all, that all we have to do to be saved is to accept His perfect life. Between these two failed concepts of legalism and antinomianism, is the truth that Christ is able to keep us from falling into sin by His all powerful, victorious life.

God is drawing His people to the total surrender of the will to Him. To the one Who is altogether trustworthy is the hope, not only of an individual nor of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, nor of Christians, but of the whole human race. Our preaching must reflect this challenge if we are serious about the soon return of our Lord and Saviour.
By Colin Standish, Perfection, Hartland Publications, 2009 p.72 – 79,

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: APL] #188249
01/13/19 02:39 PM
01/13/19 02:39 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: APL quoting Ellen White
All the preaching in the world will not make men feel deeply the need of the perishing souls around them. Nothing will so arouse in men and women a self-sacrificing zeal as to send them forth into new fields to work for those in darkness. Prepare workers to go out into the highways and hedges. Do not call men and women to the great center, encouraging them to leave churches that need their aid. Men must learn to bear responsibilities. Not one in a hundred among us is doing anything beyond engaging in common, worldly enterprises. We are not half awake to the worth of the souls for whom Christ died. {8T 147.4}


Excellent quote APL. It tends to support both the spiritual demographics above and also the connection between actively sharing the 3 angels messages and being part of the 144K doesn't it?

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188250
01/13/19 03:07 PM
01/13/19 03:07 PM
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Yes, Satan’s ecumenical influence is grossly compromising our church. It is a false call to unity that is working to hinder and delay the great outpouring. God will not move until enough souls are equipped to do the work. Ecumenism proliferates assimilation to and condoning of the false teachings of the fallen churches and draws the people away from God’s true gospel. God has called for the SDA Church to be a precious and peculiar church.
On spiritual gifts/early&latter rain: Ellen White (and servants before/after her)was endowed with spiritual gifts because she yearned for God. Because of her childhood injury, she couldn’t go to school. So, She daily spent long hours with God in study and prayer. As a result, He endowed her with a gift for writing, speaking, teaching, evangelizing around the world, healing, prophesying. She did the same thing as great servants of the school of the prophets didin days of old. Question: why was it that Gehazi could not perform the miracle of bringing life back to the boy?
We can achieve much if we surrender and chase after the Lord God Jehovah with all of our hearts. Unity thereafter is a “natural” and genuine process.


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188320
01/23/19 11:58 AM
01/23/19 11:58 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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In the Bible the figure of the Branch of David is also used to depict the 144,000. David was thirty years old when he began to reign in Hebron. In the seventh year of David's reign David went up from Hebron and took Jerusalem from the Jebusites and made Zion, a part of Jerusalem his royal city.

David is a type of Christ who also began his ministry at thirty. And like Christ David was a prophet, priest and king. I mentioned recently that Ellen White in vision was shown the mighty angel of Revelation 18, as he gave the loud cry pointed directly to Christ and his royal atonement in the heavenly sanctuary. This gesture of the angel describes a work of atonement in heaven and a corresponding work of repentance in God's people. Repentance has been the missing element in Adventism in every generation since 1844. The lion/lamb of Revelation 5 has been ready to break the seals that lock human hearts since that time but every generation has refused.

But I believe David Gates is right. Things are about to change whether we are ready or not because the iniquity of the modern Amorites is now full. The seals will be broken by the Davidic Branch and a king will reign in righteousness.

The years of grace of Daniel 9 have been fulfilled. We're on the cusp of that period when the walls of Zion will be measured and built of lively stones:
Quote:

Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psa 50:1 The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
Psa 50:2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
Psa 50:3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
Psa 50:4 He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
Psa 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
Psa 50:6 And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.
Psa 50:7 Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I am God, even thy God.

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188321
01/23/19 12:13 PM
01/23/19 12:13 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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The early rain has been falling for some time now on God's remnant. The first inauguration of David in Hebron is a type of Christ's first inauguration which resulted in Pentecost and the early reign. The second inauguration of David in Hebron was a type of the second inauguration of Christ pictured in Revelation 5 as the lion of Judah.

The start of David's reign in Hebron was also a harbinger of the conquest of Zion seven years later. The conquest of Zion is a figure of the armies of God under the power of the latter rain which is about to fall on the world. The best days of the church, the complete restoration of Zion, are straight ahead when the glory of Christ in His sanctuary encircles the globe and a knowledge of His royal atonement covers the earth as the waters cover the sea.
Quote:
Zec 2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188325
01/24/19 09:22 AM
01/24/19 09:22 AM
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Yes, David was a prophet and king. However, unlike with Melchizedek, the bible does not place him in the priesthood. When he was hungry and in need of a weapon, the priest gave him the holy bread that was being replaced by the fresh batch and gave him Goliaths sword. He could not go in to the holy place and get for himself. The priest gave holy bread to David not because he was priest, but because he had not been with a woman for specified days, there was no common bread available and because the bread was being replaced. 1 Samuel 21:4-6. The Earthly priesthood was reserved for the Levites only. David was of Judah. 1 San 30:6-7 shows us that he relied on the priesthood to inquire of the Lord via the ephod, Urim and thummim. He himself was not allowed to carry out the office of the Priesthood. Jesus was king and priest by order of Melchizedek.


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Laodicean] #188334
01/25/19 01:43 PM
01/25/19 01:43 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Laodicean
Yes, David was a prophet and king. However, unlike with Melchizedek, the bible does not place him in the priesthood. When he was hungry and in need of a weapon, the priest gave him the holy bread that was being replaced by the fresh batch and gave him Goliaths sword. He could not go in to the holy place and get for himself. The priest gave holy bread to David not because he was priest, but because he had not been with a woman for specified days, there was no common bread available and because the bread was being replaced. 1 Samuel 21:4-6. The Earthly priesthood was reserved for the Levites only. David was of Judah. 1 San 30:6-7 shows us that he relied on the priesthood to inquire of the Lord via the ephod, Urim and thummim. He himself was not allowed to carry out the office of the Priesthood. Jesus was king and priest by order of Melchizedek.

I agree that David was not a Levite and did not assume any Levitical duties, but he functioned as a priest-king after the order of Melchizedek in that he ate the shewbread and was guiltless. Anyone else who did this would be have been an offender but David was a type of Christ and his men with whom he shared the shewbread were a type of the armies of God. David also wore the ephod and linen garment of a priest as he lead the ark of God and danced before the Lord, and he sat within the Holy Place before the Lord as a priest after Melchizedek's order where the common people had no access. Luke 6:3, 4; 2 Samuel 6:14; 2 Samuel 7:19-29.

But notice that David, like Melchizedek, was king of Salem, that is of JeruSalem, and king of righteousness, that is king of Zion. It is when the Branch of David, the 144,000 appear with the lamb on Mount Zion that the three angel's messages are given in power. Revelation 14:1-5. Why? Because the Lion of Judah, the royal Lamb is again crowned at the beginning of the latter rain. His inauguration is described in Revelation 5 but the results are described in Revelation 14. The first angel of Revelation 14:6 and 7 points to the hour of God's royal judgment; these angel messengers point to the everlasting gospel and to Christ's final work of atonement to liberate His people from sin. Thus the first angel's message is the proclamation of a royal jubilee and the 144,000 who declare it are the first fruits of that Jubilee.

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188337
01/25/19 08:54 PM
01/25/19 08:54 PM
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Basically, Revelation 14:1-5 should be attached to Revelation 13.
Revelation 12 depicts the forces of the dragon
AND the woman and her remnant against whom these forces wage war.

Revelation 13 goes into greater detail on the forces of the dragon
and then in the next 5 verses shows the remnant standing firm in Christ in spite of these forces.

Verse 6 starts a new cycle --
The giving of the message during the "time of the end" which began in 1798.

Quote:
I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, . . . saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come. Revelation 14:6, 7. {CTr 338.1}

The proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages has been located by the Word of Inspiration. Not a peg or pin is to be removed. No human authority has any more right to change the location of these messages than to substitute the New Testament for the Old.

The first and second messages [Revelation 14:6-8] were given in 1843 and 1844, and we are now under the proclamation of the third; but all three of the messages are still to be proclaimed. It is just as essential now as ever before that they shall be repeated to those who are seeking for the truth. By pen and voice we are to sound the proclamation, showing their order and the application of the prophecies that bring us to the third angel’s message. There cannot be a third without the first and second. . . . {CTr 338.3}

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188339
01/25/19 10:08 PM
01/25/19 10:08 PM
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David and his men ate the shew bread not just David -they were not priests

Last edited by Laodicean; 01/25/19 10:10 PM.

Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: dedication] #188340
01/25/19 11:10 PM
01/25/19 11:10 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Basically, Revelation 14:1-5 should be attached to Revelation 13. . .Verse 6 starts a new cycle --
The giving of the message during the "time of the end" which began in 1798.


Let's look at the cycles some more.

The first cycle begins with the seven churches and covers from the Apostles to today. Since Ellen White places Revelation 5 in the future and Revelation 4 is the introduction of 5, this cycle continues to the seals in Chapter 6. And since she places the seals and the trumpets in the future as well, the cycle continues from chapter 2 to 11. (But she also implies that the seals and trumpets are parallel or at least partly overlap.)

Notice though that the 144,000 are sealed in chapter 7 just after the Lamb takes the seven-sealed book but before the trumpets sound. Why? For the same reason they appear in Revelation 14 just before the three angel's messages. The trumpets are the final warning and call to repentance. Their warning blasts are given in power by the 144,000. These are heaven's marines that follow the lamb wherever He goes, that follow Him on white horses as he rides forth to the final battle of Armageddon conquering and to conquer. Rev 6:2 and 19:11-14.

Revelation 12 to 19 repeats and expands on the first cycle from 2 to 11. In Revelation 12, the woman gives birth to the man child who is caught up to God's throne. The man child is a symbol of the 144,000. These are the Elijah messengers who like Elijah can say to the wicked rulers of this world, "As the Lord liveth before whom I stand" because by faith they stand before the throne of God. In chapter 13 the mortal wound of the beast is healed and it is in this context that the 144,000 shine forth on Mount Zion with the Lamb declaring to the world a jubilee of full liberty from the bondage of sin and the beast.

But the gospel invitation and warning is rejected by the world and then the plagues fall. Interestingly, Ellen White implies that the plagues overlap the trumpets and seals as well.

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188342
01/26/19 02:18 AM
01/26/19 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: Charity
Originally Posted By: Laodicean
Yes, David was a prophet and king. However, unlike with Melchizedek, the bible does not place him in the priesthood. When he was hungry and in need of a weapon, the priest gave him the holy bread that was being replaced by the fresh batch and gave him Goliaths sword. He could not go in to the holy place and get for himself. The priest gave holy bread to David not because he was priest, but because he had not been with a woman for specified days, there was no common bread available and because the bread was being replaced. 1 Samuel 21:4-6. The Earthly priesthood was reserved for the Levites only. David was of Judah. 1 San 30:6-7 shows us that he relied on the priesthood to inquire of the Lord via the ephod, Urim and thummim. He himself was not allowed to carry out the office of the Priesthood. Jesus was king and priest by order of Melchizedek.

I agree that David was not a Levite and did not assume any Levitical duties, but he functioned as a priest-king after the order of Melchizedek in that he ate the shewbread and was guiltless. Anyone else who did this would be have been an offender but David was a type of Christ and his men with whom he shared the shewbread were a type of the armies of God. David also wore the ephod and linen garment of a priest as he lead the ark of God and danced before the Lord, and he sat within the Holy Place before the Lord as a priest after Melchizedek's order


David “girded himself with a linen ephod.” Yes, but the Hebrew word for ephod -
“ éphawd” -also means “girdle” which is an undergarment. He stripped his outer clothes and he exposed his undergarments and that’s one reason why Saul’s daughter, Michal, criticized him- he punished her by making her childless. 2 Samuel 6. The priestly ephod is not an undergarment. It is an outer garment. David had the people pull the Ark of the covenant on a beast driven cart. If he represented the high priest, then he would have surely had the levites carry the cart with staves as God had instructed. Because of his wrong choice, that was contrary to God’s command, Uzzah was struck dead when he tried to steady the Ark OTC. 2 Samuel 7- you said David was allowed to go into the holy place. This is not mentioned in the Bible. Only the priests were allowed to eat the bread —in the holy place. Sauls Edomite servant saw David and his men get the bread. That’s how he went back to Saul and told. Saul later killed the priests and their families and flocks as a result.The Bible said the priest had the 5 loaves of bread under his hand. David said,” The bread is in a manner common.” The Bible also indicates allowances made by God in time of emergency or need. The priest inquired of the Lord for David and gave him food and a sword.1 Samuel 22


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188356
01/28/19 03:02 AM
01/28/19 03:02 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Are you sure that EGW puts these things in the future?

Let's go back to Revelation chapters 4 and 5.
I see EGW puts them at the time of Christ's ascension.

We know the basic scene --

It’s an amazing worship scene in which God is declared worthy to receive honor and praise.
But something is missing? The Father holds a scroll Upon which the ultimate destiny of everything seems to depend. It’s basically the scroll of the everlasting covenant containing "the history of God's providences, the prophetic history of nations and the church. Herein was contained the divine utterances, His authority, His commandments, His laws, the whole symbolic counsel of the Eternal" and unless it is opened that covenant cannot be fulfilled.

But NO ONE in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

No one in heaven -- (not even God the Father could open the scroll without breaking the covenant)

There is considerable consternation – John, the apostle who is viewing the scene is overcome with anxiety and grief and starts to sob.

Where is Jesus? He is not yet in heaven (for no one there could open the book) He is not on earth, (no one there was worthy either) nor under the earth (in the grave) Where is He?

Jesus is on His way to heaven ---
He is being escorted by a host of angels (you will notice the hosts of angels in God's throne room aren't mentioned in Revelation, until after Jesus arrives)


Now let EGW tell us in the last chapter of Desire of Ages:

"The time had come for Christ to ascend to His Father's throne....

All heaven was waiting to welcome the Saviour to the celestial courts. As He ascended, He led the way, and the multitude of captives set free at His resurrection followed. The heavenly host, with shouts and acclamations of praise and celestial song, attended the joyous train. {DA 833.2}
As they drew near to the city of God, the challenge is given by the escorting angels,--


"Lift up your heads, O ye gates;
And be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors;
And the King of glory shall come in." {DA 833.3}
Joyfully the waiting sentinels respond,--

"Who is this King of glory?" {DA 833.4}
This they say, not because they know not who He is, but because they would hear the answer of exalted praise,--


"The Lord strong and mighty,
The Lord mighty in battle!
Lift up your heads, O ye gates;
Even lift them up, ye everlasting doors;
And the King of glory shall come in." {DA 833.5}
Again is heard the challenge, "Who is this King of glory?" for the angels never weary of hearing His name exalted. The escorting angels make reply,--


"The Lord of hosts;
He is the King of glory." Psalm 24:7-10. {DA 833.6}
Then the portals of the city of God are opened wide, and the angelic throng sweep through the gates amid a burst of rapturous music. {DA 833.7}


In the very next sentences we find many references to Revelation five!

There is the throne, and around it the rainbow of promise. There are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion,--all are there to welcome the Redeemer. They are eager to celebrate His triumph and to glorify their King. {DA 834.1}

But He (Jesus) waves them back. Not yet; He cannot now receive the coronet of glory and the royal robe. He enters into the presence of His Father.
(He comes as the LAMB SLAIN) He points to His wounded head, the pierced side, the marred feet; He lifts His hands, bearing the print of nails. He points to the tokens of His triumph; ... Before the foundations of the earth were laid, the Father and the Son had united in a covenant to redeem man if he should be overcome by Satan. They had clasped Their hands in a solemn pledge that Christ should become the surety for the human race. This pledge Christ has fulfilled. When upon the cross He cried out, "It is finished," He addressed the Father. The compact had been fully carried out. Now He declares: Father, it is finished. I have done Thy will, O My God. I have completed the work of redemption. If Thy justice is satisfied, "I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am." John 19:30; 17:24. {DA 834.2}

The voice of God is heard proclaiming that justice is satisfied. Satan is vanquished. Christ's toiling, struggling ones on earth are "accepted in the Beloved." Ephesians 1:6. Before the heavenly angels and the representatives of unfallen worlds, they are declared justified. Where He is, there His church shall be. "Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other." Psalm 85:10. The Father's arms encircle His Son, and the word is given, "Let all the angels of God worship Him." Hebrews 1:6. {DA 834.3}
With joy unutterable, rulers and principalities and powers acknowledge the supremacy of the Prince of life. The angel host prostrate themselves before Him, while the glad shout fills all the courts of heaven, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing." Revelation 5:12. {DA 834.4}

Songs of triumph mingle with the music from angel harps, till heaven seems to overflow with joy and praise. Love has conquered. The lost is found. Heaven rings with voices in lofty strains proclaiming, "Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb forever and ever." Revelation 5:13.



And in Acts of the Apostles we continue --

Christ's ascension to heaven was the signal that His followers were to receive the promised blessing. For this they were to wait before they entered upon their work. When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as this ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even
with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity. The Pentecostal outpouring was Heaven's communication that the Redeemer's inauguration was accomplished. According to His promise He had sent the Holy Spirit from heaven to His followers as a token that He had, as priest and king, received all authority in heaven and on earth, and was the Anointed One over His people. {AA 38.3}

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: dedication] #188382
01/29/19 10:35 AM
01/29/19 10:35 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Are you sure that EGW puts these things in the future?


Yes. She does both, applying it to the past as you point out above and to the future as I've posted in other threads.

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