Is it you position that God does not Judge people worthy of receiving the Holy Spirit before the Latter Rain is poured out?


Or that Christ cannot bring His reward because He did not Judge the people who are to receive it?

Not sure why you think I was saying that.

Talking about Nadi believing you have choice clear up to the end.
Holy Spirit being poured out or not isn't affected by that, is it?

Correct,

The option to choose remains open right up to the physical second coming.

As you know, I do not believe in a probation, nor close of same.

However, be that as it may, I am curious to know on what evidence you link "it is done" from John 19:30 with "let the filthy be filthy still, and the righteous be righteous still" from Revelation 22:11?

I had asked,

Is the answer not found in the previous chapter, at least some of them are included as the dead being judged?

Re 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,
18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great."

"free and slave, both small and great." That pretty much included every one, right?
But the righteous, too?

Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

Only those gathered together to make war against Him.

Re 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

I think they are dead, don't you?

When did they make their decision? Before that time, right?

Re 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So would you agree, that they have made that choice prior to the physical second coming?

I do not see the exact timing of the choice to bear on the question as I understand it. My assertion is that the ability to chose is never taken away, nor comes to an end, while humans are on Earth.

As previously stated, if at any time there are people on Earth, they continue to have a choice.

It is true that an individual may have already chosen, either pro or con, and God is the judge of that. But there is no time when the ability to chose ("probation" if you want to use that term) is arbitrarily taken away ("closed" if you want to use that term.) There is always a choice.

The second point related to this question is that at no time must God's people live on Earth without a Mediator. The notion that one must perfect their character because they must live in the sight of a Holy/Perfect God without a Mediator is unbiblical and damaging. In the Great Commission Jesus says he will be with us always, even to the end of the age. (or world, if you prefer the KJV) Matthew 28:20

I agree with Nadi's comment.

I agree.... but man having choices is not above God's Sovereignty overruling their choices when necessary for executing His Plan of establishing the Kingdom of God on this earth.

Kland brought Rev 22: to prove text that their choices to reject Jesus are sealed forever. Read Context kland...you have problem to draw context and consider other scriptures that contradicts your interpretation.

Rev 22 happen's right after Jesus 2nd coming where He and His Priesthood will rule(shepherd) the nations. It is a symbolic picture of the New Jerusalem where they and their kingdom will be the highest mountain where all the nations will flow to it to gain learn of God's ways in the law. (Isaiah 2) At Jesus 2nd coming, which is only the first harvest as prophecied in the law in the firstfruits and in the Feasts harvest times; is the first resurrection reserved for the leaders only (See Rev 20:5,6) where others who didn't make that resurrection some of them will continue to be just and others will not until the time of the Great White Throne Judgment where we find that every knee will bow and give glory to God.



Good point! I agree. Their will still be a mediator during the Millenium and after that age. Eze 44-46 talks about the uncorrupted priesthood will mediate with Christ for the people. Let us note that they will be the mediator of the NEW Covenant and not the old. The New Covenant says that God promise to make us His people (Deut 29) and write His laws inside our hearts (Jer 33 and NT). The New covenant does not depend on our choices. It is the Old covenant that depends on the people choices (Ex 20:19) to follow all of God's law despite it is written outside their hearts. As long as the law is not written in our heart, choosing the right path is unnatural and often not known as we do not understand the law.

Basically, the Old Covenant where the people made a silly and impossible vow to keep while the law is outside our hearts is founded on their ability to keep their vow. Whereas the New Covenant is not dependable on the people choices, but rather on God's ability to keep His vow.

The question was, does ceasing of choice happen before the 2nd coming? The question had to do with timing of choice, right?

Is that statement disprovable?

As I view it, the "ceasing of choice" happens AT the second coming, and not before. I cannot get any more specific than that; IOW I cannot say at what point in the second coming, if any, choice ends. Just "AT" the SC.

It is no more nor less provable or disprovable than any other idea related to the topic.

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The ideas of "probation" and "the close of probation," along with the "investigative judgement" fly directly in the face of concepts of God. In terms of a probation and a close of probation, I have expressed my views already. But this idea goes against the desire of God that all men should be saved, and that all may come to repentance, and that God is unwilling that any should perish, and other similar ideas expressed in Scripture. So my question is "Why would God arbitrarily cut off one's choosing salvation, without any CLEAR, UNMISTAKABLE warning about WHEN this would happen??" This idea directly challenges the idea of the justice of God. Therefore I reject it. And to base the entire idea on the single text of Rev. 22:11 (I say single because no other texts have so far been offered) makes it a very weak argument.

Likewise the IJ. The whole idea challenges the omniscience AND justice of God.
* What is the IJ for? Not for God, He knows everything. He is also not just the judge, but the RIGHTEOUS Judge. Not only that, but He knows the end from the beginning. So it is clearly not for God.

* Is it for those on other planets? It is yet to be established from Scripture that this is the case, or even that THERE ARE other intelligent beings watching from other planets.

* If the "other intelligent beings" are watching, then they already know, so it is clearly not for them.

* Is it for humans? Well, if it started in 1844...WE'RE NOT THERE! So it is clearly not for us, even though the doctrine states they WE are being investigated. Secondly, God has provided (according to SDA theology) the 1000 years after his coming for humans to examine the books a realize that God is just and has made a just decision. So the IJ is clearly not for humans.

In the end, I must hold that probation and the IJ is not just unbiblical, but actually challenge the attributes of the Deity, which is something I am unwilling to do.

One would have to devise a MUCH STRONGER argument, based on clear Scriptural evidence, if they expect or are hoping for a shift in my position.