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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: dedication]
#188581
02/25/19 10:40 AM
02/25/19 10:40 AM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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I've had it told me, that soon does not mean imminent.
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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: kland]
#188582
02/25/19 02:56 PM
02/25/19 02:56 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2020
Full Member
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
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I've had it told me, that soon does not mean imminent. Nor does it mean 100 years, or 2000 years.
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: dedication]
#188584
02/26/19 03:48 AM
02/26/19 03:48 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,706
Canada
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Soon --it means there is no time to waste. --it is not teaching a necessary time frame for the Lord’s appearance. --Rather, it means quickly, suddenly, unexpectedly, fast.
Suddenly, with overwhelming surprise, the last crises will strike.
and in another sense -- A person can be enjoying an average day, and then driving on their way home, suddenly, unexpectedly, die in an unexpected accident. For some "soon" is only a few years == not much time at all to make our calling and election sure.
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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: James Peterson]
#188587
02/26/19 11:34 AM
02/26/19 11:34 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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SDA have mangled the Book of Revelation so much that "soon" has become a derisive term, as you pointed out. However, the "soon" of the Book actually referred to 70 AD which John would have lived to see. Remember, the angel told John, "He [i.e. Jesus Christ] who testifies to these things says, 'Surely I am coming quickly.'" Rev. 22:20
Does God lie? Does one say "quickly" and mean an eternity?
///
Revelation is an open book though some portions are sealed. Those things that were to be in 70 AD have been. And those things that will be on the eve of Christ's Advent (2019 or beyond) will be. The Revelation is not the problem. It is the effort to make it fit into man's mindset. Rightly dividing the word of truth is dependent on the Holy Spirit of God that inspired it.
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: dedication]
#188593
02/26/19 02:15 PM
02/26/19 02:15 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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"Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
James and Nadi,
Was Jonah a false prophet? Jonah thought so. He thought it better to die rather than live and be called a false prophet. How did God respond?
Jonah 4:11 "And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left-and much livestock?"
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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: dedication]
#188596
02/26/19 08:18 PM
02/26/19 08:18 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2020
Full Member
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
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Soon --it means there is no time to waste. --it is not teaching a necessary time frame for the Lord’s appearance. --Rather, it means quickly, suddenly, unexpectedly, fast.
Suddenly, with overwhelming surprise, the last crises will strike. Although I am aware of this understanding of "soon" in parts of Scripture I do not at this time subscribe to this line of reasoning for the following reasons: 1. Although "soon" can be understood in the context of speed of approach rather than time frame of occurrence, other phrases such as "time is at hand" indicate when, not speed. The overall tone of NT language regarding the second coming emphasizes its nearness, not its speed. 2. The authors of the NT (and by extension 1st century Christians generally, but this is an assumption on my part) expected the return of Christ within their lifetime, or at the latest that of their children. This is based on phrases from both Peter and Paul such like "as we wait for his appearance" and "as we see the day approaching" etc. and in another sense -- A person can be enjoying an average day, and then driving on their way home, suddenly, unexpectedly, die in an unexpected accident. For some "soon" is only a few years == not much time at all to make our calling and election sure. In the context of the discussion, ie: rapidity vs. nearness, I do not think the timing of the death of a single individual, although important to the individual, bears on the question.
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: dedication]
#188597
02/27/19 03:19 AM
02/27/19 03:19 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Soon --it means there is no time to waste. --it is not teaching a necessary time frame for the Lord’s appearance. --Rather, it means quickly, suddenly, unexpectedly, fast.
Suddenly, with overwhelming surprise, the last crises will strike.
and in another sense -- A person can be enjoying an average day, and then driving on their way home, suddenly, unexpectedly, die in an unexpected accident. For some "soon" is only a few years == not much time at all to make our calling and election sure. Sometimes, talking to an SDA is like reasoning with a member of a cult: they discard context and embrace talking points spoon-fed to them. The above is a classic example. The question is not what "soon" means, but what "soon" means in the context of Revelation, particularly Rev. 22. THREE TIMES, Jesus said that He was coming soon. - Rev. 22:7, Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.
- Rev. 22:12, And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
- Rev. 22:20, He who testifies to these things says, Surely I am coming quickly.
And those THREE TIMES were prefaced by the direct statement of John: " The Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place." Rev. 22:6 That is one bookend. The other is at the beginning: " Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near." Rev. 1:3 *** "SOON", THEREFORE, IN THE CONTEXT OF REVELATION DOES NOT MEAN LIKE LIGHTNING. Rather, it signifies just a little time until ..., not long before ..., nearly there ...///
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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: kland]
#188598
02/27/19 03:27 AM
02/27/19 03:27 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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"Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
James and Nadi,
Was Jonah a false prophet? Jonah thought so. He thought it better to die rather than live and be called a false prophet. How did God respond?
Jonah 4:11 "And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left-and much livestock?" You are comparing apples with oranges. Jonah was prophesying of something that was based on a condition. The people repented, and God had mercy. Whereas, Revelation deals with the definitive end of all things. God's anger is poured out unmixed in seven last plagues. This Jonah point has been raised and debunked 144,000 times already. ///
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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: James Peterson]
#188599
02/27/19 04:23 AM
02/27/19 04:23 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,706
Canada
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James wrote: ""SOON", THEREFORE, IN THE CONTEXT OF REVELATION DOES NOT MEAN LIKE LIGHTNING. Rather, it signifies just a little time until ..., not long before ..., nearly there ..."
So do you, James, teach that Revelation already happened centuries ago? Since John wrote those words in his lifetime. Revelation 22, in your school of thinking, must have been "nearly there" when he wrote? But I don't buy the preterits interpretation of prophecy for many reasons -- Also -- to reject that line of interpretation isn't just an Adventist "thing" -- Many Christians would agree with what I stated that have never studied any Adventist books.
Soon -- when it speaks of Christ's coming is relative to a person's time. It does mean there is no time to waste, for there isn't much time.
No one has to wait longer than their life time. Death is sleep which knows no time. The next thing a person knows when they awake is that the end is here.
So yes, even John, writing the Revelation given him by Christ, around 90 A.D. didn't have much longer to wait. A few more years till his life on earth was done. In death their is no consciousnesses of time. For Him the next thing he experiences, is being called from the grave to witness His Lord's coming in the clouds of glory to take His people home to the Father's house.
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Re: M-103 beginning of the end of free speech in Canada
[Re: James Peterson]
#188600
02/27/19 04:56 AM
02/27/19 04:56 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,706
Canada
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"Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
James and Nadi,
Was Jonah a false prophet? Jonah thought so. He thought it better to die rather than live and be called a false prophet. How did God respond?
Jonah 4:11 "And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left-and much livestock?" You are comparing apples with oranges. Jonah was prophesying of something that was based on a condition. /// And Peter wrote concerning the question of the apparent length of time before Christ's soon coming: 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come...in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness. 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Same as the miniature example of Nineveh The wicked city was facing destruction BUT God gave them more time because people were still repenting and turning to God Yet the time did come when Nineveh was eventually destroyed. In the same way the wicked world is facing destruction BUT God gives more time because people are still repenting yet, the end will eventually come It really doesn't matter the DATE, we all have only our short little life span to " be diligent that we may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."
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