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When Michael Stands Up
#189034
04/07/19 11:14 PM
04/07/19 11:14 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1. Cleansing the Temple On the first day of the week before the Passover, the ninth day of the first Hebrew month, Christ rode triumphantly into Jerusalem and the record says he viewed the temple and then went out. The following day, on the tenth day of the month, he drove out the money changers for the second time. We know that it was the tenth day because 1) it is strongly implied by the text that it was the following day Mark 11:11-15, and 2) in the type, the Passover lamb was set aside on the tenth day. Christ became a marked man from that day because it settled the Jews in their purpose to put Him to death. Inspiration tells us that the first time he drove out the money changers He was announcing his mission. While the gospels do not say directly what day he did this, they do tell us that it was just before the Passover, and since Ellen White tells us that this was his announcement of His mission, the type points us again to the 10th day. Notice what He did: He stood up in the temple as guardian and judge, king and priest, and cleansed it. It struck me today that this may also be a type of when Michael stands up and cleanses and delivers the church one last time in the final battle. Ellen White tells us that Christ's dual cleansing of the temple is a type of the second and third angel's messages, both of them cleansing messages. When Jesus began His public ministry, He cleansed the temple from its sacrilegious profanation. Among the last acts of His ministry was the second cleansing of the temple. So in the last work for the warning of the world, two distinct calls are made to the [fallen] churches. The second angel’s message is: “Babylon is fallen is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.” And in the loud cry of the third angel’s message a voice is heard from heaven saying, “come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins. Review and Herald, Dec. 6, 1892. The Conquest of Canaan Israel crossed the Jordan and began to possess the Promised Land on the 10th day of the first month as well. Joshua is a type of Christ who brings spiritual Israel to her inheritance. He, as captain of the hosts of heaven leads the armies of Israel triumphantly in her final conquest. Since anciently the 10th day of the month is the day Christ, captain of the hosts lead Israel by Joshua into Canaan, this date is a leading candidate for that time prophesied by Daniel when He will stand up again and lead us fearlessly on white horses into the great final battle. But before the armies of light and darkness fully engage the prophecy tells us there is a dramatic pause, a prophetic half hour of silence, seven days, as God takes His place as judge of all the earth. Revelation 8:1. Anciently, when Israel crossed the Jordan on the 10th day, the men were circumcised and the record states that the Lord removed the reproach of Israel on that day. Again this is a type of Michael standing up for His people, removing the reproach that Satan, the accuser of the brethren has cast on them. In Zechariah 2 and 3 we have the same picture. At the close of chapter 2, God rises to judge and vindicate Israel. In the next scene of Joshua and the Angel, the Lord removes Joshua's reproach. Joshua's filthy garments, a symbol of the sins of Israel and his own sins that he bears as high priest are exchanged for the righteousness of Christ and the crown of His glory. The pause over and the reproach of Israel removed, seven days later on the 16th of the month which is the Feast of First Fruits, the armies of spiritual Israel swing into action. The seven trumpets sound culminating in the overthrow of spiritual Jericho, Babylon the Great at the seventh trumpet. Some such as Pastor Henrique are teaching that the 144,000 are manifested on the Feast of First Fruits and this is a reasonable interpretation. The only caution I'd give is that no one knows he is fully sealed until he passes the test of the death decree and hears the voice of God announce the everlasting covenant. And as I mentioned above Ellen White also cautions us that there will be two distinct cleansings of the church at the end brought about by the second and third angels. She states in another place that the third angel's message is the sealing message. So notice that the cleansing of the second angel's message is not the sealing message. It precedes the sealing message of the third. Daniel also cautions that among the wise (those who receive the wisdom and grace of the latter rain), some of these will fall to purify and refine those who remain. So while the 144,000 may be manifested on the Feast of First Fruits at the beginning of the battle of Armageddon, it is only those who are victorious right to the end of the battle who will be sealed. Many Adventists still hold to the view that Michael standing up marks the close of probation and that Armageddon takes place after this. While all of the inspired sources do teach that probation closes for many when Michael stands up, (the unwise virgin class), they also teach that probation doesn't close for the rest of humanity – the wise virgins and the rest of the wedding guests - until the end of the battle. Regarding the perils of Armageddon the Lord Himself cautions us: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Revelation 16:15. He forewarns us that during Armageddon it is entirely possible to loose our salvation because probation has not yet closed. I'd be grateful for any comments, questions, feedback, etc pro or con.
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Re: When Michael Stands Up
[Re: Charity]
#189038
04/08/19 01:48 AM
04/08/19 01:48 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book” [Daniel 12:1]. When this time of trouble comes, every case is decided; there is no longer probation, no longer mercy for the impenitent. The seal of the living God is upon His people. LDE 259.2
What is meant by the following:
1) every case is decided 2) there is no longer probation 3) no longer mercy for the impenitent.
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Re: When Michael Stands Up
[Re: Charity]
#189039
04/08/19 02:05 AM
04/08/19 02:05 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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“I was then pointed to the flattering things taught by some of these transgressors of God's law. I was shown also a bright light, given by God to guide all who would walk in the way of salvation, and also to serve as a warning to the sinner to flee from the wrath of God, and yield a willing obedience to his claims. While this light should continue, there would be hope; but there would be a time when it would cease,—when he that is holy will remain holy forever, and when he that is filthy will remain filthy forever. When Jesus stands up, when his work is finished in the most holy, then not another ray of light will be imparted to the sinner. LS88 341.1
“But Satan flatters some, through his chosen servants, as he flattered Eve in Eden, ‘Thou shalt not surely die;’ and tells them there will be a season for repentance, a time of probation when the filthy can be made pure. The co-workers with Satan and his angels carry the light into the future age, teaching probation after the advent of Christ, which deludes the sinner, and leads the cold-hearted professor to carnal security. They become careless and indifferent, and walk stumblingly over the hours of their probation. The light is made to reach far ahead, where all is total darkness. Michael stands up. Instead of mercy, the deluded sinner feels wrath unmixed with mercy, having awakened too late to the fatal deception. This plan was studied by Satan, and is carried out by ministers who turn the truth of God into a lie.” LS88 341.2
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Re: When Michael Stands Up
[Re: Charity]
#189044
04/08/19 09:58 AM
04/08/19 09:58 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
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Ellen White's statements on Michael standing up are like her statements on Armageddon. Some of her statements seem to suggest that Armageddon takes place after the close of probation for all of humanity while many others make it plain that she did not believe that. When you accept all of them they are easily reconciled and her position is plain that during Armageddon, which is the final spiritual war between the forces of darkness, (the dragon, the beast and the false prophet), and the forces of light, the probation of some closes at or near the start of the war but for some it closes during the war and for some at the end. The same is true for her statements regarding Michael standing up. Look it up for yourselves friends. Compare her statements carefully with scripture, with Daniel 12:1-13, Revelation 16:15 etc. They agree of course.
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Re: When Michael Stands Up
[Re: Charity]
#189045
04/08/19 04:13 PM
04/08/19 04:13 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Charity, you wrote - "He forewarns us that during Armageddon it is entirely possible to loose our salvation because probation has not yet closed." This is the first I've heard of anyone stating definitively that the Bible and EGW say the battle of Armageddon begins before Michael stands up, before the close of human probation, and that some Christians will be sealed and saved after Michael stands up and that others can forfeit their salvation.
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Re: When Michael Stands Up
[Re: Charity]
#189055
04/09/19 05:31 AM
04/09/19 05:31 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Many Adventists still hold to the view that Michael standing up marks the close of probation and that Armageddon takes place after this. Michael "standing up" says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what he was doing before, but what was going to happen when He did: all-out war against the Jews! We know this for certain because the angel told Daniel so. He said, " And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time." Dan. 12:1b. Jesus also gave this interpretation in Mat. 24:15-22. In fact, Michael is not the only one who is said to "stand up"; but in every single case where anyone "stands up", the expression is used to signify -- not the end of some exercise in advocacy -- but the beginning of conflict. In the book of Daniel, using the KJV as SDA are wont to do, here are all the references to "standing up". The following are particularly pertinent: - Daniel 8:22, "Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power."
Were the four horns pleading for mercy on behalf of anyone? OR were they preparing themselves to attack? - Daniel 8:23, "And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up."
Was that king pleading for anybody with lots of incense before standing up; or was he, irrespective of anything done before, about to engage in brutal warfare? - Daiel 8:25, "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."
Before standing up, what was he doing? And what does "standing up" REALLY mean? - Daniel 11:2, "And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia."
Were those three kings seeking mercy before God previously? OR were they just said to be starting out in war and that is all? - Daniel 11:3, "And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will."
What was that mighty king doing before? - .... and on and on and on and on. Read the references for yourself.
It is so sad that SDA who promote themselves as faithful to the rudiments of honest exegesis, take terms such as this totally out their contexts, apply fantastic meanings to them, plug them back in and arrive at strange and exotic interpretations -- in complete and blind disregard for the clear, consistent and simple meanings that may be derived very plainly from the text.///
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Re: When Michael Stands Up
[Re: Charity]
#189061
04/09/19 07:16 PM
04/09/19 07:16 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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James, you obviously do not believe Michael standing up refers to the end of the investigative judgment and the close of human probation. Why are you here?
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Re: When Michael Stands Up
[Re: Mountain Man]
#189064
04/09/19 07:33 PM
04/09/19 07:33 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2020
Full Member
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
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James, you obviously do not believe Michael standing up refers to the end of the investigative judgment and the close of human probation. Why are you here? I did not realize that belief on those two points was a prerequisite to participation on this forum. I myself reject both the IJ and the concept of probation, as I see insufficient Biblical support for either one. If you would like to pursue that discussion, there are threads for each idea already started. James can speak for himself.
Last edited by Nadi; 04/09/19 07:33 PM.
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: When Michael Stands Up
[Re: Mountain Man]
#189067
04/10/19 12:14 AM
04/10/19 12:14 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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James, you obviously do not believe Michael standing up refers to the end of the investigative judgment and the close of human probation. Why are you here? That is a good question. Why am I here?When Jesus began his ministry, He came to his own in Nazareth and stood up to read from the prophet Isaiah. Then He concluded by interpretation, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing." Luke 4:21. What ensued could very well have been something like what you ask of me, except it was asked of Him, "Jesus, why are you here?" As Luke says, " ... all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, and rose up and thrust Him out of the city; and they led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw Him down over the cliff." Luke 4:28-29 That is not far from the way the Roman Catholics treated the Reformers Wycliffe, Hus and Luther, is it? In any house, no one sees exactly as the others do; but woe to him who uses that to divide and cast out. Perchance he may inadvertently be casting himself over the cliff instead of the other way around. Hebrews 13:1-2 ///
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Re: When Michael Stands Up
[Re: Charity]
#189068
04/10/19 01:12 AM
04/10/19 01:12 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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I did not realize that belief on those two points was a prerequisite to participation on this forum.
I myself reject both the IJ and the concept of probation, as I see insufficient Biblical support for either one. The following General Forum Rules of Maritime SDA OnLine are now in effect:
5 - You must either believe in or respect the 28 fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
6 - You must also either believe in or respect one of those 28 fundamental beliefs regarding Ellen G White as a messenger of God for both her time and our time.
The following Forum Rules of Conduct, in addition to the above General Forum Rules for all the forums of MSDAOL, will be be followed in any topic and any forum of MSDAOL:
7 - Common SDA beliefs may be challenged, but inflamatory statements that go beyond mere discussion will not be allowed. This is somewhat subjective, and therefore imperfect.
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