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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189525
05/23/19 10:38 AM
05/23/19 10:38 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Karen, I agree with Daryl.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189775
06/16/19 09:59 AM
06/16/19 09:59 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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The fourth Plague says that sun scorches heat. Normally sun provides light, warmth, and energy, but now it causes climate change which intersects with hurricanes by increasing storm rainfall, intensity, and surge. The scorching heat causes the polar ice caps to melt and some estimate the level of the world's ocean would rise by 200 feet if all the Antarctic ice melts. The disruption of ocean will cause catastrophic loss of life. Even the scientists say, "The polar ice caps have melted faster in last 20 years than in the last 10,000."
In God's mercy, the solar disruptions are partial as the fourth trumpet announced, but the force of the fourth plague will intensify to its full when Jesus declares "It is done".
The fourth trumpet says, "And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise"(Rev. 8:12). The announcement is about a disruption of the solar heat.
"I saw the sword, famine, pestilence, and great confusion in the land. The wicked thought that we had brought the judgments upon them, and they rose up and took counsel to rid the earth of us, thinking that then the evil would be stayed. In the time of trouble we all fled from the cities...." White, Ellen G.. Early Writings p. 34
Isa. 34:16 "Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them."
The seven trumpets and the seven plagues are the present and the future. In other words, the seven trumpets speak about the coming judgment of the seven plagues(Amos 3:7). We have to trumpet the sound, the warning, loud and clear. I would not want to be ignorant of the evidences of the plagues which begun to manifest as written in Rev. 16.
The seven churches and the seven seals are the past and the present. The church of God withstood the time of the past and God's people are judged in the Most Holy Place in the present time.
In studying the book of Revelation, we are to match line upon line, precept upon precept to make a sense out of it; without OT, we would not know the full revelation of Jesus Christ. So is the book of Revelation within the book. We must match things to bring it to better understanding.
The fourth seal reveals to us that the Papacy killed saints during the Dark Ages because of the Sunday law. The sun worship (Baal worship) is the original problem of the fourth plague which indicated in the fourth church. The self-claimed prophetess, Jezebel, brought the Sun worship to God's people.
The fourth plague is the consequence of the wrong worship, the Sunday. We have to worship God according to the commandments of God on the Sabbath. The fourth commandment says, "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy." This is the present testing truth!
The heavenly bodies are manifesting signs of time as a consequence of people's rebellion to God's commandments. In the fourth day of creation, God made the solar system to show signs of times, and it is fulfilling its designated course. (Gen. 1:14).
Have you noticed all the fourth elements have the connection to indicate the beginning to the end of the problem?
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189777
06/16/19 11:15 AM
06/16/19 11:15 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
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The fourth seal reveals to us that the Papacy killed saints during the Dark Ages because of the Sunday law. The sun worship (Baal worship) is the original problem of the fourth plague which indicated in the fourth church. The self-claimed prophetess, Jezebel, brought the Sun worship to God's people. SDA have gone berserk! That is NOT what the Bible says in the Apocalypse concerning Jezebel. Here, I will quote it for you because it seems you don't have a proper Bible: "Nevertheless I (Jesus Christ) have a few things against you (IN THYATIRA), because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols." Rev. 2:20 There is nothing there about worshiping the sun or legislating a Sunday law or about a place called the USA, period! You ought to buy a good Bible. They are very cheap these days and are even free on the internet. ///
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189796
06/17/19 05:10 PM
06/17/19 05:10 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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The fourth Plague says that sun scorches heat. Normally sun provides light, warmth, and energy, but now it causes climate change which intersects with hurricanes by increasing storm rainfall, intensity, and surge. The scorching heat causes the polar ice caps to melt and some estimate the level of the world's ocean would rise by 200 feet if all the Antarctic ice melts. The disruption of ocean will cause catastrophic loss of life. Even the scientists say, "The polar ice caps have melted faster in last 20 years than in the last 10,000."
If you're trying to say that the fraudulent "global warming" which has since deceptively been changed to "climate change" is about the fourth plague, then you are diluting the plagues foretold in the Bible.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#190097
07/13/19 10:56 PM
07/13/19 10:56 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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Posts: 511
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Rev. 16:8-9 "And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory." This is the fourth plague of the seven last plagues of Revelation. The issue of the sun scorching hot is not going to happen without harbinger of signs in God's mercy. I see the "climate change" as the beginning of the fourth plague. I have no doubt that the extend of severity would be indescribable and catastrophic at the full measure of the plague. The cause of this fourth plague is indicated in the fourth seal of Revelation. During the Dark Ages, Sunday Law was enforced and persecuted millions of faithful Christians to martyrdom(Rev. 6:7-8). The fourth church mentions of self-claimed prophetess Jezebel who brought the Sunday worship to God's people(Rev. 2:20). God promised that He will not do anything unless He tells His secret to His servant the prophet (Amos 3:7). The fourth trumpet is so plainly clear that the heavenly light source will manifest signs of warning for the fourth plague. Rev. 8:12 "And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise." The fourth commandment says "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy"(Exodus 20:8). Please note that the counterpart of the seventh day Sabbath is Sunday. In the fourth day of creation, the sun and the moon are created to manifest signs of time(Gen. 1:14). When the "fourth ones" are all interconnected to hint the secrets of God to His people, I do not want to be an ignorant about this Scriptural revelation. In Noah's time, those who ignored strange things happening in the nature were perished: "Suddenly a silence fell upon the mocking throng. Beasts of every description, the fiercest as well as the most gentle, were seen coming from mountain and forest and quietly making their way toward the ark. A noise as of a rushing wind was heard, and lo, birds were flocking from all directions, their numbers darkening the heavens, and in perfect order they passed to the ark. Animals obeyed the command of God, while men were disobedient. Guided by holy angels, they ?went in two and two unto Noah into the ark,? and the clean beasts by sevens. The world looked on in wonder, some in fear. Philosophers were called upon to account for the singular occurrence, but in vain. It was a mystery which they could not fathom. But men had become so hardened by their persistent rejection of light that even this scene produced but a momentary impression. As the doomed race beheld the sun shining in its glory, and the earth clad in almost Eden beauty, they banished their rising fears by boisterous merriment, and by their deeds of violence they seemed to invite upon themselves the visitation of the already awakened wrath of God." Ellen G. White. Patriarchs and Prophets p. 98
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#190140
07/16/19 11:09 PM
07/16/19 11:09 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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1 Tim. 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
What is God's mystery?: "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets" (Rev. 10:7).
What is Satan's mystery?: "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 17:5).
Jesus said, the mystery will be uncovered: "Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known" (Matt. 10:26).
God has declared to his servants the prophets what is the MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. The beast of Revelation 13 received three things from the dragon, the Satan: "the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority" (Rev. 13:2b). Power = religious power; Seat = political power; Authority = economic power
Gideon heard of the telling of Midianites' dream in secret and took only 300 soldiers to destroy the enemies. (See Judges 7:13-15). Amos 3:7 "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."
Col. 1:26 "Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints." God's mystery was established from the eternity, but Satan's mystery exists after sin has entered (Rev. 17:5).
The book of Revelation exposes and unmasks Satan's mystery. The work of sealing God's people mentions in the five chapters of Revelation: 5:1-5; 6:1-17; 7:1-3; 8:1-2; 9:4-6. The work of enforcing 'the Mark of the Beast' appears every chapter beginning of chapter six to twenty-two. God emphasizes the importance by repeating the concern: "do not receive the Mark of the Beast!"
Early Writings p. 37 "These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob?s trouble."
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#190205
07/21/19 08:31 AM
07/21/19 08:31 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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What is God's mystery?: "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets" (Rev. 10:7). Well, you needn't worry about that since the answer stares you right in the face: "as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." But God declared a lot of things to the prophets, so what exactly is it? And there it is given to us on a platter: "Then the seventh angel sounded: and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" Rev. 11:15 The mystery of God that was kept secret throughout the ages was that He was going to overcome all things, even though outside looked as if nothing good was going to happen, ever. Our salvation is sure! As simple as that.///
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#191317
11/29/19 03:18 PM
11/29/19 03:18 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
Michigan, US
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Revelation has two classes of "the kings of the earth." 1). Those who fornicate with the harlot (Rev. 6:15; 16:14; 17:2,18; 18:3, 9; 19:19) 2). Those who believe in Jesus (Rev. 1:5; 21:24)
*The one of the classes of the kings of the earth is being deceived by Satan, the devil. "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty" (Rev. 16:14). *This class of the kings of the earth is committing fornication with the harlot. "With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (Rev 17:2). *This class of the kings of the earth is under the reign of the harlot. "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth" (Rev. 17:18). This class of the kings of the earth is essentially connected with merchandise in the world. "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies" (Rev. 18:3). *This class of the kings of the earth faces a financial bankruptcy. "And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning" (Rev. 18:9). *This class of the kings of the earth will be eaten up by the bird feast at the Second Coming. "That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army" (Rev. 19:18-19). *This class of the kings of the earth includes all those who reject Christ. "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains" (Rev. 6:14).
The other class of the kings of the earth is the believers in Christ. *Jesus is their Prince. "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Rev. 1:5). He purchased them by His own blood and made them kings and priests: "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen" (Rev. 1:6). *Jesus denies to be the kings of the unbelievers. "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36). *The unbelievers rejects Christ to be the King. "But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar" (Rev. 19:15). *This class of the kings of the earth has inheritance of the kingdoms in the cosmic world. "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it" (Rev. 21:24). Just as Jesus inherited the kingdom of God(Rev. 11:15; 12:10), the believers will receive the reward:"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev. 21:7).
When we study carefully "the kings of the earth" in Revelation, each individual who is born on the earth named as the kings of the earth. I think it is because redemption is promised to those "whosoever believes in Him" and they are the kings who are saved from the earth. In other words, the onlooking universal beings will call the saints who are redeemed from the earth, the kings of the earth. When you have an eternity in view, this understanding becomes plainly clear.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#191333
12/04/19 08:06 PM
12/04/19 08:06 PM
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OP
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Those who are saved from the earth are called the kings of the earth and Jesus is the Prince of this class of the kings of the earth(Rev. 1:5,6).
Jesus promised in Rev. 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." This is literal reward to those who are saved for the kingdom of God.
In Eph. 2:6, the saints are already accounted as sit on the throne of God: "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."
When Jesus ascended to heaven after His resurrection, He took 24 Elders and set them on the throne: "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold" (Rev. 4:4).
In the vision of Chapter 12, we see that a pure woman who represents the church wearing a crown: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars" (Rev. 12:1).
It is a biblical concept that a king sits on a throne, would wear a crown and has his dominion. Revelation has this imagery plainly presented for the church of Christ: church sit on the throne(Rev. 3:21; 4:4; Eph. 2:6); church wear a crown (Rev. 12:1), and brings their glory and honor from their own kingdom(Rev. 21:24, 26; 2:26; 1:6; Matt. 18:29). ----21:24 "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." ----21:26 "And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it." ----2:26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" ----1:6 "6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. ----Matt. 19:28 "28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
The eternal plan of God is that the redeemed saints would reign the cosmic world with Christ for ever and ever (Rev. 22:5).The earth will become the center of the universe and the throne of God and the New Jerusalem will come down after the thousand years (Rev. 21:3). I believe that we would be learning to be king during the thousand years from Jesus Christ. Notice that Scripture says that we shall reign with Christ during the thousand years: "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." "6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
What God promised to Abraham that he would become a great nation is going to be fulfiledl in the eternal kingdom of God. And all the saints are going to receive the same promise as Abraham. Thus each individuals who are saved are called "Nation." Gen. 12:1-3 "Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Rev. 21:24, 26 "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." "And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it." Rev. 22:2 "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."
It makes a sense to me when God promised to Abraham a nation (singular), but in Revelation, the redeemed ones are nations (plural) because each individuals are given a kingdom or a nation.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#191337
12/05/19 04:38 PM
12/05/19 04:38 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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God's desire is to build a holy nation and a royal priesthood for each redeemed saint in the cosmic world of His kingdom: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light" (1Pet 2:9).
During the thousand years, there would be a lot of healing of our wounds which acquired from the kingdom of Satan: "and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations" (Rev. 22:2).
Each individual of the kings of the earth who represents as a nation of their given kingdom, will stand before the throne of God and will receive a crown as a king:"be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Rev. 2:10); "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown" (Rev. 3:11).
Dragon with seven heads and ten horns represent Satan who has intention to take the crown that Jesus promised to the church. We can see that in a symbolic language that his heads have the seven crowns: "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads" (Rev. 12:3).
The sea beast has a similar image as Satan with the seven heads and ten horns: "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy" (Rev. 13:1). Notice, the sea beast has crowns on the ten horns instead on the seven heads. Ten horns represent the kings of the earth who fornicate with the beast, the harlot: "With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (Rev. 17:2). In Revelation, the mystery of the harlot and of the beast is made known clearly: "I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns" (Rev. 17:7).
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" (Rev. 17:12). Notice, Revelation reveals that the seven heads and ten horns are always appear together (Rev. 12:3; 13:1; Rev. 17:3, 7, and Rev 17:9,12) because of its co-dependency until the Word of God fulfills: "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled" (Rev. 17:17).
I perceive that the sea beast (sea beast = Catholic) is a vicegerent of Dragon: "the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority" (Rev. 13:2). The sea beast makes the kings of the earth to fornicate with her money which she has "glorified herself, and lived deliciously" (Rev. 18:7) with it. Ten horns represent ten kings who seek to receive worldly kingdom (Rev. 17:12) through fornication with the harlot (harlot = Pope). That means the ten kings represent the kings of the earth who fornicate with the costly things of the beast: "Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate" (Rev. 18:19). Evidently, the beast's secret to overcome the church is through the means of economy, let alone doctrinal deception in the Bible truth. In the symbolic language, having ten horns with ten crowns indicate its strategy of economy sanction upon the inhabitants of the earth to impose the mark of the beast through a financial means.
When we grasp this secret of the beast's activity which occurs concurrent, we know that the close of probation is imminent. This is what the seven trumpets' message entails. Without the seven trumpets' warning message, the spiritual Babylon will not collapse, but increases torments as to "in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them" (Rev. 9:6).
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