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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189362
05/12/19 03:49 PM
05/12/19 03:49 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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The close of probation is about to happen! Hi Karen, I have not read this study thread, so I don't know what has been said so far. But if you will allow me to ask - Why do you think probation is more likely to close now than in previous years? I am not finding fault with you or your view. I really am interested in learning why. Thank you.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189370
05/13/19 02:01 PM
05/13/19 02:01 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
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Hi MM, thanks for your interest my point of view why the probation is about to close. I can reiterate many aspect, but since it is on my thread already which you can look through them, I will share insights that I have gained this morning in my personal study.
Joel 2:1 "Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming. It is close at hand—"
Because the seven trumpets of Revelation are now sounding clearly with correct understanding—not historical, but prophetical, I know God's church is responding appropriately before the close of probation arrives.
In the antitype we should expect would-wide warning message to be given in trumpet tones announcing the close of probation when the great antitypical day of atonement is closing. The sound of trumpets was heard many times in the past, from the trumpet of the Lord's host at Mount Sinai, which shook the whole earth, and the blast of the ram's horns before the walls of Jericho.
Lev. 25:9 "Then have the trumpet sounded everywhere on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your land." This happened on the Jubilee year.
When you examine the seven last plagues in Rev 16, take a close look at the fourth plague first, you may discover that the scorching of the sun already has begun; the climate changes are real issue. Rev. 16:8-9 "Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory."
God is pouring out the fourth plague because of the Sunday worship. In the fourth seal, saints were killed due to the enforcement of Sunday keeping by Catholic during the Dark Ages.
In the fourth church, there is mention of Jezebel who brought Sun worship to God people. The fourth trumpet warns of the heavenly bodies exhibit signs of time that powers of heaven are shaken.
Rev. 8:12 "The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night"
In the fourth day, God created the heavenly bodies for a purpose of the signs; "let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years" Gen. 1:14.
Although God is clear about the seventh day Sabbath, which has the name of God, the wicked continues to blaspheme the name of God(Sabbath) and do not repent. The close of probation is the answer to their wicked respond and it is nearer than ever.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189385
05/14/19 05:57 PM
05/14/19 05:57 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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God is pouring out the fourth plague because of the Sunday worship. Does this mean human probation has already closed?
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Mountain Man]
#189386
05/14/19 11:44 PM
05/14/19 11:44 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
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The close of probation is about to happen! So what? Amos 5:18, "Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! For what good is the day of the Lord to you? It will be darkness, and not light."Shouldn't you be pleading with God instead to put it off until later like Abraham did before the LORD concerning Sodom and Gomorrah? Shouldn't you be thinking of the great swaths of Muslims and Buddhists in Asia? Shouldn't you be leaving all and travelling through the barren lands of Hinduism urging upon those lost souls the promise of salvation through Jesus Christ? But ye sit upon cushions of a plush armchair and prattle thy tongue that has joined itself to an over-active imagination and fatalistic fixation. ///
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Mountain Man]
#189388
05/15/19 01:58 AM
05/15/19 01:58 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
Michigan, US
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I believe human probation closes when Jesus declares "It is done." He is still in the MHP interceding for His people.
Daniel 12:10 "Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand."
Matt. 24:44 " Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."
As you have looked at the 4th of each column from Seven Churches, Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets, and Seven Plagues, if you approach the 5th ones in the same way, you would see a clear connection, which unfolds the beast power(Papacy) who instigates evil powers to prevent people to be sealed.
Rev. 9:4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads."
God is plaguing the seat of the beast now so their kingdom became darkened: "Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain. They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds." Rev. 16:10-11. Although they would bite their tongues for pain, which they have lied with their mouth too long time, they do not repent.
The fifth trumpet mentions of their end, "In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them" Rev. 9:6.
The fifth trumpet also mentions of their kingdom becoming darkened: "And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit" Rev. 9:2.
Catholic steals prayers of saints by telling people to confess their sins to their priests, just as Absalom stole hearts of the people from David: "In this manner Absalom acted toward all Israel who came to the king for judgment. So Absalom stole the hearts of the men of Israel" (2 Sam. 15:6).
Prayers are represented by smoke in Revelation(Rev 5:8; 8:3-4). Catholic will be punished with smoke, since they stole the prayers of saints: "and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What is like this great city?" (Rev. 18:18).
Rev. 19:2b-3 "He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!”
In the fifth seal, martyrs cried out for avenging their blood, and God will avenge on her(Catholic) at the end of probationary time by the smoke. The ten horns will burn her with fire: "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire(Rev. 17:16).
Rev. 19:3 "Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!”
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189393
05/15/19 03:35 PM
05/15/19 03:35 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Karen, did I misunderstand it when you wrote - "God is pouring out the fourth plague because of the Sunday worship." The plagues are poured out after Jesus declares "It is done" (after probation closes, after every case has been been decided).
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Mountain Man]
#189407
05/17/19 11:07 PM
05/17/19 11:07 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
Michigan, US
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If you consider the seven plagues, you can not deny that they already being present: 4th plague is sun scorching heat(climate changes); 5th plague is full of Darkness in Catholic; 6th plague is Ecumenism. (I just mention these three plagues for now).
God has given us the prophecy to discern the times of end, and indicate the nearness of the close of probation. I believe the seven last plagues have already begun to fall before Jesus declares "It is done." God is so merciful that if anybody want to repent by seeing the plagues falling, God will accept and forgive him or her.
The seven trumpets are the warnings of the seven plagues to the wicked. If there is no one repenting anymore during this last chance, there is no need for Jesus to be in the MHP to intercede. So the close the probation will occur by declaring "It is done."
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189478
05/21/19 10:20 PM
05/21/19 10:20 PM
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According to the following quote, the seven plagues are not yet falling:
It was impossible for the plagues to be poured out while Jesus officiated in the sanctuary; but as His work there is finished, and His intercession closes, there is nothing to stay the wrath of God, and it breaks with fury upon the shelterless head of the guilty sinner, who has slighted salvation and hated reproof. In that fearful time, after the close of Jesus' mediation, the saints were living in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. Every case was decided, every jewel numbered. Jesus tarried a moment in the outer apartment of the heavenly sanctuary, and the sins which had been confessed while He was in the most holy place were placed upon Satan, the originator of sin, who must suffer their punishment. {EW 280.2}
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Daryl]
#189485
05/22/19 02:47 PM
05/22/19 02:47 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Senior Member
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
Michigan, US
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If you read the right above the paragraph, Ellen G White mentions that her statement is to describe scenes after Jesus declares "It is done."
"I saw angels hurrying to and fro in heaven. An angel with a writer’s inkhorn by his side returned from the earth and reported to Jesus that his work was done, and the saints were numbered and sealed. Then I saw Jesus, who had been ministering before the ark containing the ten commandments, throw down the censer. He raised His hands, and with a loud voice said, “It is done.” And all the angelic host laid off their crowns as Jesus made the solemn declaration,
“He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.”
Of course, it was impossible for the plagues to be poured out in full measures while Jesus still officiates in the MHP, but Rev. 16 portrays the certainty of the seven last plagues which have begun to fall partially before the maximized wrath of God arrives. I cannot negate the evidences of the seven plagues absolutely contemporary. I believe that is why the seven trumpets have the notion of incomplete judgment as "one third" to indicate intensifying progression of the seven plagues to full extent.
1st plague is pestilence upon the earth, and 1st trumpet is 1/3 of earth cover with bloody mixed with fire and hail(warning of health problems). 2nd plague is about sea pollution, and 2nd trumpet speaks about sea became bloody; in other words, 1/3 sea creatures dying by pollution(crustacean is not safe to consume and so dangerous for health). 3rd plague is pollution of drinking water, and 3rd trumpet warns the springs of water turn to bitter(lack of pure water). 4th plague is sun scorching heat (climate changes), and 4th trumpet warns about the heavenly bodies dis-functioning(Rev. 8:12). 5th plague is poured upon the seat of the beast(Papacy), and 5th trumpet warns about their agenda is to counteract sealing of God(Rev. 9:4). Their kingdom became darkened. 6th plague is ecumenical movement(to wipeout remnant people of God), 6th trumpet clearly indicates cessation of Jesus' intercession(Rev. 9:13-14). 7th plague declares "It is done" and 7th trumpet says the kingdom of this world become the kingdom of Christ(Rev. 11:15).
Why would the seven trumpets warn the coming seven plagues if there is no chance to recognize and repent? Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." We must send out a loud cry of the seven trumpets, so the wicked can repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#189486
05/22/19 04:23 PM
05/22/19 04:23 PM
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I am not questioning the opening of the seven trumpets, however, until Christ utters those words, “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.”, probation hasn't closed yet and none of the seven plagues have fallen yet.
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