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Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: kland] #190035
07/09/19 11:36 AM
07/09/19 11:36 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
When did women not wearing only dresses first begin?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: kland] #190039
07/09/19 04:59 PM
07/09/19 04:59 PM
K
kland  Offline OP
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Does the start time frame affect whether it's right or not?

Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: kland] #190041
07/09/19 05:30 PM
07/09/19 05:30 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Probably not, however, it would still be interesting to know when it first began.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: kland] #190047
07/11/19 12:39 AM
07/11/19 12:39 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Canada
History of trousers (pants) would be an interesting study.
Here's just some points I picked up -- this is by no means a comprehensive review

Trousers were not always "mens" clothes, as many cultures dressed their men in garments that were not bi-legged garments.
Much of the early types of clothing were wrap skirts, robe like garments, or simply skillful wrapping of cloth for both genders.
Some history reports link the rise of trousers very strongly to horse riding. .

For example'
"The first recorded reports of trousers were made by sixth century BC Greek geographers. They noted the appearance of Persian, Eastern and Central Asian horse riders. The extended periods on horseback made trousers a practical choice. Images of male and female horse riders wearing trousers can be found on ancient ceramics."

This except is interesting:
"Scythian warriors, both male, and female, from Central Eurasia, are depicted wearing tight fitting trousers in Greek art dating from the 6th centuries BCE. Similar styles, consisting of a tunic and trousers have been found surviving in tombs. The Greeks wore a wrapped garment, the chiton, and viewed the wearing of trousers as something done by foreigners and females"

"In the Roman world, the toga was the typical wrap garment for men on formal occasions. Casual wear consisted of a tunic. Earlier members of the military didn?t wear trousers, seeing them as the clothing for barbarians, or effeminate like their Greek predecessor. However, the combination of being defeated by the trouser wearing Teutons, and their own increased usage of cavalry, also increased their need to adopt trousers."

It seems that especially warriors on horseback wore pants, while the toga, or wrapped garment style was considered the clothing for the elite.

As the Roman military accepted trousers and as time progressed into the middle ages, pants for men became more common -- though they went through some pretty interesting designs. Like big puffy pants from the waist to the knees, with tight stockings on the lower legs. Yet even in the middle ages the basic clothing for men was a tunic and stockings.
Women (especially in colder climates) wore some form of trousers or leggings under their dresses. But the distinction between women's dress and men's garments became more and more different

So gradually trousers became a masculine dress -- equipping him for WORK and war.
Women were relegated to the home and clothed in volumes of cloth called dresses,

In the United States, for many years, it was LAW that women must wear dresses, they could be fined or even imprisoned, for wearing pants in public. Women wearing pants in public is a rather recent thing -- starting after WWII, but not really accepted till about the 1970's. Even up to 1993 there were laws prohibiting women from wearing slacks in certain official government positions.

Interestingly -- during wartimes (first and second World War) women put on trousers and did men's work (they had to for their husbands were gone to war, and they were expected, not only to keep up the home front, but also to work to support the war effort) after the war they were put back into dresses.
Though some women put on trousers for work and riding all through those years, they were not allowed to wear trousers in public places and gatherings. Even as late as the 1960's all females wore dresses in public -- to school and church and in business type jobs.

The thing is -- slacks or trousers are a liberating garment. They free a person to move, work, ride, play. Even though those things can be done wearing a dress -- it is not nearly as free.
That's why men switched from their wrap skirts, robes, togas, chitons and kilts and put on trousers way back in ancient times.

Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: kland] #190056
07/11/19 06:17 PM
07/11/19 06:17 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Interesting history.

TY


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: kland] #190065
07/12/19 11:12 AM
07/12/19 11:12 AM
K
kland  Offline OP
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Thanks dedication.

Quote
Trousers were not always "mens" clothes, as many cultures dressed their men in garments that were not bi-legged garments.
Much of the early types of clothing were wrap skirts, robe like garments, or simply skillful wrapping of cloth for both genders.

Which is what I was saying that men and women both wore robes in the past. Especially during the Jewish times.

Quote
Earlier members of the military didn?t wear trousers, seeing them as the clothing for barbarians, or effeminate like their Greek predecessor.
Pants are women's clothing!

Quote
after the war they were put back into dresses.
...
The thing is -- slacks or trousers are a liberating garment. They free a person to move, work, ride, play.
"put back into dresses". I like that. Sort of men designing high heels for women. To sort of confine or disable them. Ever see a woman in high heels try to walk up and climb the steps to the platform? She sort of looks incompetent.

Just to put it to the extreme wink :
We could say, women should wear dresses to show their submissiveness of being limited.

Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: kland] #190070
07/12/19 02:45 PM
07/12/19 02:45 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by kland
Thanks dedication.

Quote
Trousers were not always "mens" clothes, as many cultures dressed their men in garments that were not bi-legged garments.
Much of the early types of clothing were wrap skirts, robe like garments, or simply skillful wrapping of cloth for both genders.

Which is what I was saying that men and women both wore robes in the past. Especially during the Jewish times.

Quote
Earlier members of the military didn?t wear trousers, seeing them as the clothing for barbarians, or effeminate like their Greek predecessor.
Pants are women's clothing!

Quote
after the war they were put back into dresses.
...
The thing is -- slacks or trousers are a liberating garment. They free a person to move, work, ride, play.
"put back into dresses". I like that. Sort of men designing high heels for women. To sort of confine or disable them. Ever see a woman in high heels try to walk up and climb the steps to the platform? She sort of looks incompetent.

Just to put it to the extreme wink :
We could say, women should wear dresses to show their submissiveness of being limited.


The distinction between clothing was obvious enough for God to have forbidden men wearing women's garments and vice versa. Calling it all robes does not mean anything. Both men and women wear shoes but there are men's and then there are women's. For modesty and for distinction, that is the principle. Design all you want, but for Christian modesty and gender distinction.

///

Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: kland] #190074
07/12/19 03:33 PM
07/12/19 03:33 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,707
Canada
Originally Posted by kland


Quote
Earlier members of the military didn't wear trousers, seeing them as the clothing for barbarians, or effeminate like their Greek predecessor.
Pants are women's clothing!

That my be assuming too much, but the Greeks seemed to think so, and it carried over to Romans.
The Greek's ancient histories tell stories (often called "myths) of a race of women who managed to form a society of women in which men were not allowed any power. They were quite skilled at war and horse riding.
The stories were quite numerous, and have been discovered in quite a few different places and by multiple authors. The Greeks both feared and despised this race of women, yet declared them to be beautiful and strong. You may have heard of the "Amazon" women.

The stories show that women fought for liberation from being subjected by men way back in ancient times. They were written by men who apparently sought to show the triumph of men. For though they talk of the women as mighty warriors, they never write of any battles that the women actually won, but rather of men overcoming them.

Did such a race exist? There are various opinions.
Some say they were actually beardless Mongolian men, mistaken to be women. Some say they were just myths to show that men will always end up as rulers as the Amazon women were eventually defeated and wiped out. The women received "bad press".

But there is evidence that suggests they actually existed.
1. Ancient historians wrote about them, like Homer, Heredotus, Plutarch and Eusebius

2. in the Altai Mountains of Siberia, an excavations began in the mid 1990s. The archaeologists unearthed the burial grounds of an ancient race of people known as Pazyryk. The Kurgans, as the log-barrows they were interred in were known, have revealed several mummified remains of mostly women. One such Kurgan contained the well preserved remains of a woman who had been interred with her resplendent feathered headgear, intricate body art and sacrosanct artifacts. She has since been called the "Siberian Ice Maiden".

3, Several other kurgans were excavated and revealed mummified women displaying scars and wounds perhaps inflicted in battles. Most remains are bow-legged, an indication of years of riding on horseback. Bizarre but true are the remains of horses found at these Kurgans, some sacrificed and propped up on stakes, others interred with the dead.


Whatever the truth is about them --
The Greeks seemed to believe they existed, and yes, the Greeks credited these women with inventing trousers.

Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: James Peterson] #190117
07/15/19 01:27 PM
07/15/19 01:27 PM
K
kland  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted by James Peterson

The distinction between clothing was obvious enough for God to have forbidden men wearing women's garments and vice versa. Calling it all robes does not mean anything. Both men and women wear shoes but there are men's and then there are women's. For modesty and for distinction, that is the principle. Design all you want, but for Christian modesty and gender distinction.

What do you think are the distinctions between men and women's robes?
So would you say there could be a distinction between men and women's pants?

Re: Should women wear only dresses? [Re: kland] #190122
07/15/19 07:56 PM
07/15/19 07:56 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted by kland
Originally Posted by James Peterson

The distinction between clothing was obvious enough for God to have forbidden men wearing women's garments and vice versa. Calling it all robes does not mean anything. Both men and women wear shoes but there are men's and then there are women's. For modesty and for distinction, that is the principle. Design all you want, but for Christian modesty and gender distinction.

What do you think are the distinctions between men and women's robes?
So would you say there could be a distinction between men and women's pants?

I perceive that you're a fashion designer and this matter is of great interest to you. So definitely, yes. A distinction ought to be made in women's and men's US pants. For example, you may design men's pants to be of darker hues with pockets on the outside, and women's to be lighter and decorative with pockets on the inside. But really, let me not trample on your imagination and talent; just remember in your work to implement the design principle commanded by God as found in the Bible: for Christian modesty and gender distinction.

///

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