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Re: Do We Really Understand Conversion?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#190691
08/27/19 03:40 PM
08/27/19 03:40 PM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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How far are you along this road? And why it is taking you so long to arrive at the point of sinless perfection? The beauty of Jesus' promises are wonderful and amazing, namely, I am as perfect as my Heavenly Father while I am abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, growing in grace, maturing daily in the fruit of the Spirit. It is a reality here and now - not at some future time and place. That doesn't answer the question and your evasion is disheartening to those who are trying since you are saying in other words, that the goal of sinless perfection will NEVER be met. After all, you've been trying unsuccessfully for decades (years upon years), haven't you? What precisely is your problem?
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Re: Do We Really Understand Conversion?
[Re: Daryl]
#190708
08/29/19 12:17 PM
08/29/19 12:17 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Being perfect here and now, like our Heavenly Father is perfect, is a reality while we are abiding in Jesus, while we are walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, while we are partaking of the divine nature. This is the "point in the road" you refer to. The Thief on the Cross and the Apostle John (and others) were at the point. We must continually choose to abide in Jesus, grow in grace, mature in the fruit of the Spirit for this reality to be true here and now. At any given moment we are free to neglect Jesus and resume where we left off sinning. Perfection is conditional - it is only a reality while we are abiding in Jesus, while we are walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, while we are partaking of the divine nature, while we are growing in grace, while we are daily maturing in the fruit of the Spirit.
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Re: Do We Really Understand Conversion?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#190713
08/30/19 08:35 AM
08/30/19 08:35 AM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Being perfect here and now, like our Heavenly Father is perfect, is a reality while we are abiding in Jesus, while we are walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, while we are partaking of the divine nature. This is the "point in the road" you refer to. The Thief on the Cross and the Apostle John (and others) were at the point. We must continually choose to abide in Jesus, grow in grace, mature in the fruit of the Spirit for this reality to be true here and now. At any given moment we are free to neglect Jesus and resume where we left off sinning. Perfection is conditional - it is only a reality while we are abiding in Jesus, while we are walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, while we are partaking of the divine nature, while we are growing in grace, while we are daily maturing in the fruit of the Spirit. That was just a bunch of words amounting to a statement of intent. It says nothing about your inability to achieve sinless perfection after trying FOR DECADES (YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR!) You are no inspiration to anyone joining the SDA denomination which prides itself on a doctrine of keeping the whole law, when you don't and seem incapable of doing... even after trying for sooooooooooooooooo long!To hide behind trite words of intent does not help. It would be best to admit that it is beyond you and honestly say why so that others may benefit from your experience. Why are YOU, personally, failing to keep the whole law as per doctrine?
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Re: Do We Really Understand Conversion?
[Re: Daryl]
#190789
09/02/19 04:34 PM
09/02/19 04:34 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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James, the Word of God is true. God does not lie. He clearly promises people who experience rebirth in God's appointed way do not and cannot sin while abiding in Jesus. Better than this is the fact they manifest the fruits of the Spirit in loving, winsome ways. This beautiful reality is not the result of years and years of trying real hard to get it right. No way. It is the instant fruit of rebirth. Jesus does not promise we lose the ability or freedom to neglect Him and resume sinning. Not sure why you think this understanding of the Promises is unappealing.
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Re: Do We Really Understand Conversion?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#190868
09/15/19 07:22 PM
09/15/19 07:22 PM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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James, the Word of God is true. God does not lie. He clearly promises people who experience rebirth in God's appointed way do not and cannot sin while abiding in Jesus. Better than this is the fact they manifest the fruits of the Spirit in loving, winsome ways. This beautiful reality is not the result of years and years of trying real hard to get it right. No way. It is the instant fruit of rebirth. Jesus does not promise we lose the ability or freedom to neglect Him and resume sinning. Not sure why you think this understanding of the Promises is unappealing. so why aren't you perfect after trying for "hundreds of years"?
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Re: Do We Really Understand Conversion?
[Re: Daryl]
#190875
09/16/19 06:59 AM
09/16/19 06:59 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
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Conversion is a simple assent to a new way of life. Like in marriage, baptism (aka the wedding) is ALWAYS done in sincere hope!
James, maybe you can re-ask him the last few questions in the frame of the analogy?
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Re: Do We Really Understand Conversion?
[Re: kland]
#190876
09/16/19 08:38 AM
09/16/19 08:38 AM
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NON-SDA
Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Conversion is a simple assent to a new way of life. Like in marriage, baptism (aka the wedding) is ALWAYS done in sincere hope!
James, maybe you can re-ask him the last few questions in the frame of the analogy? he doesn't want to admit that he is NOT keeping the whole law. that's his dilemma. like the jews, he places heavy burdens on the people knowing full well that he himself is unable to lift them. BUT mercy supersedes the law, and as it has been freely received, so it should be freely given. conversion is a different thing altogether, it is done in hope that there would be NO divorce. this has nothing to do with perfection and the burden of its vain pursuit.
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