It should be noted that Ellen White struggled with time setters who did not understand prophetic time. As noted in other posts here, she stated that the world lumped all time prophecy together and that her view was different than that of the world. Thus, from the context of her writings, she was talking of the specific time of Christs Advent when she said that there is no prophetic time after 1844.

Revelation 10 as you noted links to the end of the 2300 years in Daniel 8 (8:14), which was long time (a day for a year). The 2300 day prophecy played out in "long time" (a day for a year). When the 2300 years ended in 1844, which aligns with Revelation 10; the long time (day for a year) reference to time ended in the book of Revelation. When the prophecies in Revelation have their final fulfillment, they will be in real time not in long time.

Consider a few statements from EGW:



When EGW wrote out the passage from Revelation 13, she included the 42 months. If she had not intended to say that the 42 months would have a final fulfillment in the endtime (after 1844 and before Christ's Advent) she would not have included the 42 months in her statement that she wrote out in longhand.



Again EGW cites the 42 months that she has repeatedly stated in other places as having been fulfilled from 538-1798 in the future context "will surely take place." There are other examples in the writings of EGW that place time prophecies that have been fulfilled in the past in a future setting. Thus, EGW is made to contradict herself when her words are constructed to say that there is no time prophecy after 1844. She does not contradict herself when her words are understood to say that there is no time prophecy giving the specific time of Christ's coming after 1844.



How did God lead us in our past history? Did God lead us with time prophecy? And what is the implication of EGW's statement if we forget how God has led us in our past history? How shall we know where we are in prophetic history if we cannot determine the length of a Judgment hour?



Since Revelation's "teachings are definite, not mystical and unintelligible, and God would have us understand it" should we conclude that it times are not "definite" that they are "mystical and unintelligible," and that God would "NOT" have us understand them? Such a conclusion about the times in Revelation, is contrary to the teachings of EGW and does not bear evidence that it is by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

The "Judgment of Adam" was not in literal time.
It was not in Long time (a day for a year).
It was in millennial time (a day is a 1000 years in God's sight).
In the DAY that Adam ate the fruit, he died (at 930 years old)
From first mention of time and judgment in Genesis, millennial time is established.
On the Day of Atonement, The priests served in the Temple during the Daylight hours.
Christ states that there are 12 daylight hours in the day.
Based on the 12 daylight hours, a judgment hour is 83-years 4 months
Judgment begins at the house of God.
The RCC claimed and claims to be the Church established by Christ
The RCC received its deadly wound in 1798: IT WAS DEAD
Revelation 3 states that there is a dead church
22 October 1844 when judgment of the dead began the RCC was dead
83 years 4 months later (22 February 1928) the dead RCC was about to be revived

Mussolini healed the deadly wound from February thru June 1929
By June 1929 the RCC was alive (prophetically speaking)
The Day of Atonement came on 14 October 1929
Thus, the Judgment Hour of the living could begin 14 October 1929
At the end of the 83 year 4 month Judgment Hour of the living (14 February 2013)
Pope Benedict XVI resigned
The one pope at a time papal beast that had been revived in 1929
became a 2 pope papal beast when the Judgment Hour of the living ended.

When Ancient Babylon fell it had 2 kings
The papacy now has 2 popes while Spiritual Babylon is poised to fall.
Babylon is fallen is fallen because of its fornications
Pope Francis recently confirmed that the RCC priests fornications
is ongoing: Priests might still be using nuns as sex slaves!
He defrocked cardinals for abusing boys and seminarians
God's call is to flee Babylon But many churches are going back to Babylon.

The 2019 Baptist convention admitted that 750 of its member churches are plagued with
accusations of ministers molesting boys
The Methodist are about to schism over gay marriage (Babylon's fornication)



IMHO Revelation 14:8 is the Judgment Hour of the dead has come. Its repetition in Revelation 18 is "the time allotted for the Hour of the Judgment of the living has ended." We are entering upon the time of the dispensing of the verdict.

As it was in the days of Noah (he went into the ark for 7 days)
The Judgment Hour of the living ended 14 February 2013
we will soon have been seven years waiting for the Lord to visit His judgment verdict.

The other angel (Revelation 18:1) is joining to add His message.

His Child,

Your ignorance of the basics in Biblical interpretation baffles me. I truly do not understand it. How can you expect the 42 months to apply, post 1844, when they have already been fulfilled? Do you truly not know their meaning?

42 months * 30 days in a month = 1260 days.

Does the conversion make it more memorable? The 1260 days were, by your terminology, "long time." They ended in 1798. They started in 538. Mrs. White explains all of this for us in plain terms.

The book of Revelation tells us what those years were:


Clearly the "forty [and] two months" is paralleled to the "thousand two hundred [and] threescore days." And how was this prophecy fulfilled? It was fulfilled in that during this time the papacy suppressed God's Word, and persecuted God's faithful. This was that period of time referenced two chapters later: "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months." (Revelation 13:5).

God "gives" Satan this opportunity to prove himself and his government--to put his best foot forward, so to speak. For 1260 years God allows this beast power to hold authority. Those years ended in 1798 when on February 10 Louis-Alexandre Berthier, a marshal under Napoleon, took the pope captive (and put him in prison where he died a year and a half later). That was the end of the time prophesied.

If you don't accept these truths from me, perhaps Ellen White's authority should lay this to rest once and for all.



Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Dear Sister Green,
You need not be baffled. I teach that the 1260 days were fulfilled as 1260 years from 538 to 1798.
That was the initial partial fulfillment of the prophecy that foreshadowed the final complete endtime fulfillment
that Ellen White wrote of which came from 9/11/01 to April 2, 2005.

Mystery solved.

Christian regards
Hch

Nothing of any prophetic significance happened on April 2, 2005. The great mystery is Babylon, and your teachings mysteriously align with it. See Revelation 17:5.

September 11, 2001 --> April 2, 2005 = 1,299 days NOT 1260.

Check your calendar.


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The miracle of technology?
I wrote a great response to this post yesterday but it does not show up here today.
I must have failed to hit the send button.
Perhaps (Lord willing) I can make another short and to the point.


Green,
Pope John-Paul II died 2 April 2005.
His death was 42 full months after 9/11/01

EGW places the 42 months historically from 538-1798
she then states that they will have their final fulfillment in the endtime
when EGW commented on the endtime 42 months she wrote the verse out by hand
she was not saying that Rev 13 would repeat except for the 42 months
If that had been the case she would not have written that verse





Lest you doubt that she meant that the 42 months would be fulfilled after 1844 and before Christ Comes SHE WROTE IT OUT AGAIN!




In Revelation 17 the 5 fallen popes were Pius XI &XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, and John-Paul I
The one that IS was John-Paul II
and the short space pope was Benedict XVI

The death of Pope John-Paul II on 2 April 2005
Confirms the identity of Benedict XVI as the short space pope

Babylonian New Years day was 29 March on our Gregorian Calendar
The death of Pope John-Paul II on 2 April 2005 (leader of spiritual Babylon)
was a few days after Babylonian New Years Day)
from Babylonian custom, his last year had begun (29 March 2005) and would end 28 March 2006.
Benedict's ascension year was not counted in the reign of Benedict but John-Paul II
Benedict XVI's official reign by Babylonian custom began 29 March 2006
Benedict XVI reigned from 29 march 2006 thru 28 February 2013
which was one day and one month short of 7 years (a short space) for Benedict to rule his church



The 8th pope is not a reference to Francis I. He is 8 chronologically, but he is not of the 7 (Pius XI to Benedict XVI), who align with the 83 year 4 month Judgment Hour of the living.

If you try to force fit Bible prophecy into you mind set it will not work
The Bible is its own interpreter.

the 42 full months from 9/11/01 to 4/2/05 are:
October, November, December; 12 months each in 2002, 2003, 2004; January, February, and March 2005

the 1260 literal days from 9/11/01 ended 22 February 2005; the day, Pope John-Paul II, who was just beginning the dying process was released from the hospital for one day. The following day he sat for a video. He was readmitted to the hospital (24 February 2005) where he remained until he died 2 April 2005. So he was as good as dead when the 1260 days ended 22 February 2005.

Too often folks assume that they know what the Scriptures are saying without looking into all the possibilities.

Even more interesting is a study of the words used to write 42 months. The word translated as 2 in 42 is duo. In Luke 10:1 it is translated as 2 by (ana) two. or by (ana) two and two. When the 42 months are examined as 40 and (duo) 2 and 2: according to the Hebrew calendar which is the calendar use by John when he wrote Revelation...John-Paul II died 40 and 2 and 2 months to the very day from 9/11/01 to 2 April 2005. Not a day more or less.

That tidbit about duo being 2 & 2 is important in Revelation 13. I knew that the 7 popes ended at Benedict. During his reign the beast power moved from the first beast in Revelation 13 to the second beast with the DUO horns. That was during the reign of Bush II. A horn in Bible prophecy is a king (cf Daniel 8) The duo earth kings have been Bush II, Obama, and Trump. That leaves one to come. Daniel 12:1 states Michael stands for his people then comes the Time of Trouble. (When Jesus stands for He people, the time of Trouble does not begin: It is finished...He finishes it) Michael Pence is the Vice President (America's prince in waiting). Thus, I understand when President Trump is broken, Michael (the man as Cyrus was the man named by Isaiah) Pence stands for his people to implement the National Sunday Law and commence the Time of Trouble.

When Christ will come, I do not know. When He will declare "it is finished" I do not know. But the 3rd angel's message will sound and Christ will come.

His Child, when a man mingles his own thoughts with scripture the result is error. Error blinds. The Lord will enlighten the man if he humbles himself and is willing to bring all his thoughts and actions to the test of scripture. This is where the problem began - failure to bring the actions and thoughts into captivity to the will of Christ.

Those who do not do this often attempt to promote their ideas on threads that are not related to what they view as important truth and they will disrupt discussions that are unrelated to their views. But they won't see that they've done anything inappropriate because they think they have truth that has a bearing on the discussion. And although those in the discussion disagree they will still post their ideas prolifically. So Henry, I don't expect you to agree with this but although you don't see it, as a brother, my request is that you post your comments that advance your views on threads that you start. Please only make comments here that directly investigate the thread topic. This applies to all the threads in the forum started by others. We all, myself included, need to respect one another's space and help each other investigate the topic under discussion rather than use a topic to promote our private interpretations.

Charity, well said.

His Child,



I posted this earlier, and yet you seem ignorant of it still: the pope died 43 months and 9 days after 9/11--NOT 42 months.

When I said his death was of no prophetic significance, I meant exactly that. I did not mean it was not significant, only that no prophecy addressed it.

You must understand with greater breadth of mind and thinking than you presently have demonstrated if you wish to rightly divide the word of truth. Mrs. White does not indicate what you have wrested her words to say when she speaks of the "entire chapter" being fulfilled. Consider the following:



So, let's consider that "entire chapter" for a moment.



Look at the first few verses. What "beast" is this? Is it not the Papacy? If so, did it really never yet exist--for it is still future?

This chapter speaks of the time when the papacy rises--when it comes into existence. If that is still future, then what in the world is the "papacy" spoken of throughout the book "Great Controversy"? Is the "Great Controversy" also a prophecy referring to the future, and having nothing to say of the past?

I find it much more reasonable to look at the chapter as not yet fully fulfilled. When Mrs. White addresses it in the sense of it being literally fulfilled in the future, she addresses the completion of the fulfillment; she does not negate the fact that parts of it are already fulfilled, nor is it her intention to say that the entire chapter is still future, only that in the future it will have been entirely fulfilled. ALL of the chapter will take place; not just the part that has taken place so far.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I came across this quote yesterday - more evidence that the seven sealed scroll of Rev 5 to 7, the little book, and the flying roll are all about the same thing - the three angels messages - and all about to be unleashed in the latter rain.

Below Ellen White applies this fascinating symbol - Zechariah's flying roll - to the flight of the three angels messages.


Notice 1) how she equates the flight of the roll to the flight of the three angels messages and 2) her summarizing point: "Many indeed will not understand but will stumble at the words contained in the roll". That is the same warning given in Daniel 12. Only the wise will understand. To the wicked the roll remains sealed. And this is the same message contained in the scroll that is open in the right hand of the mighty angel of Revelation 10. This message crosses the ocean and encircles the globe. But those who refuse to be enlightened by the eye salve prescribed by the True Witness will not be able to read or understand it.

Many will not recognize that these prophetic revelations of the scroll/roll are central to the three angels messages. The time periods in Daniel 8 to 12 which are summarized in the latter chapter are critical in, on one hand correctly identifying the mark of the beast and on the other, in understanding the seal of God and the glory of the latter rain.

Dr. Phil Mills recently published an article on Fulcrum7, and one of his main points is that many Adventist will not recognize the glory of the latter rain.

Quote by Ellen White:

"One thing will certainly be understood from the study of Revelation- that the connection between God and His people is close and decided. {TM 114.5}

"A wonderful connection is seen between the universe of heaven and this world. The things revealed to Daniel were afterward complemented by the revelation made to John on the Isle of Patmos. These two books should be carefully studied. Twice Daniel inquired, How long shall it be to the end of time? {TM 114.6}

"And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And He said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days." {TM 115.1}

"It was the Lion of the tribe of Judah who unsealed the book and gave to John the revelation of what should be in these last days. {TM 115.2}

"Daniel stood in his lot to bear his testimony which was sealed until the time of the end, when the first angel's message should be proclaimed to our world. These matters are of infinite importance in these last days; but while "many shall be purified, and made white, and tried, the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand." How true this is! Sin is the transgression of the law of God; and those who will not accept the light in regard to the law of God will not understand the proclamation of the first, second, and third angel's messages. The book of Daniel is unsealed in the revelation to John, and carries us forward to the last scenes of this earth's history. {TM 115.3}

"Will our brethren bear in mind that we are living amid the perils of the last days? Read Revelation in connection with Daniel. Teach these things." {TM 115.4}

I have posted several times on this forum about counting the "full months" on the Gregorian calendar as 42. Counting them on the Hebrew calendar as 42 plus 2 to the day and the significance of that count. And counting the 1260 days. The data is readily available for those who want to look it up and review it.

The significance of the date of Pope John-Paul's death 1290 days after GW set up an abomination that desolates was also discussed.

And the significance of the 83 years 4 month that aligned with the judgment hour of the dead and the 83 years 4 month that aligned with the Judgment hour of the living.

There is not much more that I can write about the evidence that has been provided thus far. It is up to the Holy Spirit to convince hearts.



I have begun anew to do this work in my heart and life.