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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: Rick H]
#191582
01/23/20 03:19 AM
01/23/20 03:19 AM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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His Child, We have done our best, we who are more experienced in the way, to give you feedback and correction. You have not accepted it. You continue to misunderstand, and consequently misrepresent, the Third Angel's message: It has nothing to do with details of American presidents; it has everything to do with keeping God's commandments, or being a recipient to God's wrath (and retributive judgments). Michael, as Dedication has aptly pointed out, is Jesus Christ. He is our Savior, our Messiah, our Prince. If you read Daniel carefully, you will see this. I once took time here, on the forum, to explain Michael's identity, so please allow me to quote that post again here. Here's my study on the topic of Michael the Archangel.
The word "Michael" occurs but twice in the New Testament, once each in Jude and Revelation. Also, the word "archangel" occurs but twice in the entire Bible. However, the words "Michael" and "archangel" are clearly tied in Jude.
The word "archangel" is the word which throws people off most. The fact that "angel" is usually considered a created being is the tricky part. We forget the real meaning of "angel." The word means "messenger of God." Here is the full definition of "angel" from the Greek word, according to my Strong's Concordance:
angelos, n. angel, messenger; this can refer to a human messenger, such as John the Baptist, or messengers sent by John the Baptist or Jesus, or to the supernatural class of being that serves God: the angel:-- angel [96], angels [80], messenger [4], messengers [3], angel's [2]
Now I would ask two questions: 1) Was Jesus a human? and 2) Was Jesus a messenger, sent by God? My answers to both of these are in the affirmative. So, by this definition, one could even have used the term "angel" for Jesus. However, there is nothing in the definition of "angel" which implies that it must be a created being! (Here is where our traditional concepts can throw us off the track of truth.)
Now, apart from that little side-trip, I will not hereafter attempt to call Jesus an angel, for it is to be noted that the Bible does not try to confuse us by doing this. The Bible writers were careful to use the term for beings other than God Himself, unlike the term "son of man" which can be applied to Jesus, to Ezekiel, or to any number of men.
However, the term "archangel" is not the same Greek word as "angel." As previously noted, it is used but twice. The definition in the concordance is not helpful, saying that the word means "archangel" with no additional information. From that, I might safely conclude that the word is not fully understood. When I find that word in the dictionary, it says archangel means "an angel of the highest order," and that the prefix "arch-" means "chief" or "principal," which to me still leave questions.
It is said that "archangel" means "over all the angels." If you accept this, then the being that is "over" the angels may or may not be an angel himself--simply their superior.
Now, laying the definitions themselves aside, let's look at the identity of Michael. On this point, we can be very clear. There can be no mistake as to who Michael is.
Michael is mentioned in Daniel 10:13. "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: bu, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes [marginal note: Or, the first], came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."
In Daniel 12:1, Michael is further identified: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people...and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."
So, Michael is "the great prince" who stands "for the children of thy people." Who is this prince? Just three chapters earlier, we read this: "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks..."
So, here we have a clear reference to "THE Prince." We know who the Messiah is--that is Jesus. We also know that "prince" means the son of a king. I don't see how the angels (the created messengers of heaven) would be called by this term, do you? So to me, it is quite clear.
Now, if you accept that "archangel" means "over the angels," how many would fit this description? Certainly, Jesus would fit. But we also have God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Depending now on whether or not an angel could also fill this position, perhaps you would have Gabriel (or even other commanding angels). So depending on the definitions (is God "one" or "three"; does Gabriel count), each one may interpret the number of archangels differently.
In conclusion:
1. Messiah is "the Prince." 2. Archangel means "over the angels" or "commander of the angels." 3. Jesus is the Messiah. 4. Jesus, as God, is over the angels (archangel). 5. Jesus pre-existed His earthly existence (John 1:1-14). 6. Jesus did not create Himself (this would be impossible)! 7. Jesus created everything; He is the Creator (Col. 1:14-16).
Blessings,
Green Cochoa. The post that followed that was also good, save for the fact that I now have a clearer knowledge of the Godhead than I did then, and mistakenly referred to the possibility of more than one "archangel." There is only one. I'm clear on that now. And Michael is that archangel. God bless, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: Rick H]
#191583
01/23/20 08:52 AM
01/23/20 08:52 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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Michael is Christ in the final application of Daniel 12:1. But for every truth, the devil has a counterfeit. Michael is mentioned in 15 verses in the Bible. Sometimes it is the name of an individual and other times it is a reference to Christ. Daniel 12:1 is a poor translation (I studied that here in an earlier post) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. (Isaiah 14:12-14) Michael= "who is like God" Satan wants to be Michael ("who is like God"). Satan is a diligent Bible student. He knows that his time is short, and he seeks at every point to counterwork the work of the Lord upon this earth. It is impossible to give any idea of the experience of the people of God who shall be alive upon the earth when celestial glory and a repetition of the persecutions of the past are blended. They will walk in the light proceeding from the throne of God. By means of the angels there will be constant communication between heaven and earth. And Satan, surrounded by evil angels, and claiming to be God, will work miracles of all kinds, to deceive, if possible, the very elect. God's people will not find their safety in working miracles, for Satan will counterfeit the miracles that will be wrought. God's tried and tested people will find their power in the sign spoken of in Exodus 31:12-18. They are to take their stand on the living word: "It is written." This is the only foundation upon which they can stand securely. Those who have broken their covenant with God will in that day be without God and without hope. {CCh 39.5} It is wonderful to see that Daniel 12:1 reveals Michael (Christ) standing for His people when He stands at the end of the IJ. It is sad to not be able to see that Satan will stand for his people first through "America's Protestant prince of the covenant." As Daniel 9 pointed out the time of Christ's coming It also pointed out the very day that the title "prince of the covenant" was conferred on President Bush II in the endtime. Thus, the title "Prince of the covenant" has been passed from President Bush II, to Obama, Trump, and soon to be Pence. When President Pence (America's Protestant Prince of the covenant" stands for his people, the counterfeit will begin. If possible, the very elect would be deceived. God be merciful on us Hch
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: dedication]
#191584
01/23/20 09:33 AM
01/23/20 09:33 AM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,234
Florida, USA
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Don't wait until some president named Michael is sworn in. There may never be a president by that name. The time to prepare is NOW!
Daniel 12:1 "12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of thy people:" is speaking of Jesus. It is He that will stand up for His people. He will call the faithful dead out of their graves into everlasting life!
This awesome Michael is depicted also in Daniel 10, He fights off the evil spirits that tried to convince Cyrus to hold Israel captive in Babylon, and He Jesus, (Michael, the commander of angels, the Son of the Living God) is the One Who will stand up for His people in the end.
Don't waste time waiting for a human "Michael" to gain some position of power -- he may never become president.
The message is to prepare NOW, by uniting our lives with Christ Jesus NOW.
Very true..
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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: His child]
#191590
01/23/20 06:42 PM
01/23/20 06:42 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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As Daniel 9 pointed out the time of Christ's coming It also pointed out the very day that the title "prince of the covenant" was conferred on President Bush II in the endtime. Thus, the title "Prince of the covenant" has been passed from President Bush II, to Obama, Trump, and soon to be Pence. When President Pence (America's Protestant Prince of the covenant" stands for his people, the counterfeit will begin.
If possible, the very elect would be deceived. God be merciful on us Hch
Indeed, God be merciful to you, for you are very much deceived. His Child, Your prognostications have rarely, if ever, come true. If you find that one in twenty of them does (by pure coincidence), it proves nothing regarding the veracity of the others, for which the great majority are proven false. You predicted Trump would be removed from the presidency in 2019. That didn't happen. You predicted Jesus would come, too. It didn't happen. You claimed if Trump were inaugurated on schedule on 20 January 2017 (he was), Christ would come before April 1, 2017. You claimed Trump would NOT become president, and that Obama would remain in office. The exact opposite happened. You claimed Trump, if he became president, would only last until March 29, 2017. Again, false prophecy. In Daniel 11 it states that President Obama will extend his time in office beyond 20 January 2017 and remain until Christ Comes. All of this is probably too much for most folks on this forum to wrap their heads around because it won't fit into their preconceived notions. And some would rather fight against the leading of the Holy Spirit than to change their opinion. (no offence intended, but Laodiceans think they know it all according to Jesus and they don't want to change.) LINK TO POSTIt is quite clear who it is who thought he knew it all. And it is quite clear that it was NOT "the leading of the Holy Spirit" that gave you such a message as this. I will say it straightly: It was an evil spirit. If Trump should become President on 1/20/2017 Then Christ will come before April 1, 2017 as I indicated many time in conversations posted on this forum with Mountain Man. The Babylonian reckoning of a kings reign is from their New Years Day (29 March on our Gregorian Calendar) So from that perspective if Obama leaves office prior to 29 March 2017 then every day from 20 January 2017 up until 29 March 2017 is counted as his last year in office. LINK TO POSTTrump did indeed become president, and on schedule. But Christ has yet to come. You have proven yourself to be a false prophet. Do you know what the Bible tells us about false prophets? Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Matthew 7:15) We must BEWARE of you. Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. (Jeremiah 14:14) You speak "a thing of nought,"..."the deceit of [your] heart." Deceive yourself, if you wish, but you have no right to deceive anyone else. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Matthew 24:11)
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Matthew 24:24) You certainly won't deceive me, and I think when people know how many times you have given false prophecies, you will be less likely to deceive them, too. Therefore, I must continue highlighting your falsehoods, that others will not fall prey to them unwittingly. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1) Therefore, I do not believe you. You have proven to be a false prophet, and the Bible says I must not believe you, since you have not the spirit of God. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (Revelation 16:13) The false prophet has an unclean spirit. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10) Take heed. Notice the end of the false prophet. I counsel you to repent and be converted. Cease your prognostications. Realize that you have deceived yourself with respect to the words of inspiration, and that, in wresting them from their proper place, you have converted them to error in your own mind. Submit your judgment to the Godly counsel of the faithful saints among God's people. Meekly learn from those of experience. If you turn away from your errors, and come back to the truth, God will surely turn away from His promised judgments and receive you again. Sincerely, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: Rick H]
#191631
01/28/20 12:03 PM
01/28/20 12:03 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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Green, Since only God is infallible, I cannot say that I have never made a mistake. I do however try to learn from them. nor can I say that I will never make another mistake. But is your condemnation of my mistakes in accordance with heaven's counsel? I must be careful not to set my self up to be a fool. I pray that God will put His word in my heart, to keep me from being a fool that it will not be said of me: How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Pr 1:22 If I had not had successes in Bible study, I would not have a clue where we are in Bible prophecy. My prophetic successes that you reject; give me hope that my current understanding is correct The failures that you readily point out drive me to study more and depend more fully on the Holy Spirit to lead me on. In response to your criticism, I am constrained from pointing out the scores of correct prophetic posts that I have made because that would align prophetic events and dates that would attack an erroneous sacred cow that you cherish Thus, I will allow the Lord to be my defense, and wait under the wings of the Almighty until such a time as He see fit to purify the gold and consume the dross. Christian regards, His child henry
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: His child]
#191632
01/28/20 12:31 PM
01/28/20 12:31 PM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,234
Florida, USA
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Green, Since only God is infallible, I cannot say that I have never made a mistake. I do however try to learn from them. nor can I say that I will never make another mistake. But is your condemnation of my mistakes in accordance with heaven's counsel? I must be careful not to set my self up to be a fool. I pray that God will put His word in my heart, to keep me from being a fool that it will not be said of me: How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Pr 1:22 If I had not had successes in Bible study, I would not have a clue where we are in Bible prophecy. My prophetic successes that you reject; give me hope that my current understanding is correct The failures that you readily point out drive me to study more and depend more fully on the Holy Spirit to lead me on. In response to your criticism, I am constrained from pointing out the scores of correct prophetic posts that I have made because that would align prophetic events and dates that would attack an erroneous sacred cow that you cherish Thus, I will allow the Lord to be my defense, and wait under the wings of the Almighty until such a time as He see fit to purify the gold and consume the dross. Christian regards, His child henry The problem is that you are doing a private interpretation for many if not most of the issues on the forum, and it is quite disturbing. I have seen this happen in other forums, and in the end, the poster is seen in what I can only say is a bad light, and disregarded. Need to be careful that your word is true and not some ideas of self, as at the end we all must give account of every idle word at the judgment. Matthew 12:35-37 King James Version (KJV) 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: Rick H]
#191679
02/01/20 05:19 AM
02/01/20 05:19 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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The problem is that you are doing a private interpretation for many if not most of the issues on the forum, and it is quite disturbing. I have seen this happen in other forums, and in the end, the poster is seen in what I can only say is a bad light, and disregarded. Need to be careful that your word is true and not some ideas of self, as at the end we all must give account of every idle word at the judgment.
Matthew 12:35-37 King James Version (KJV) 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
I am reminded of the conflict between Jeremiah and Hananiah. Truth vs error. The popular message vs the unpopular message. Today we can look back and see who really had God's message. But during the captivity, it was difficult to distinguish truth from error. The issues were a matter of life and death. It is no different now. Everyone claims to have truth. Thus the wheat and the tares will grow together until the harvest. And he Holy Spirit will preserve the 5 virgins that have oil in their lamps. Christian regards His child henry
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: Rick H]
#191698
02/01/20 12:42 PM
02/01/20 12:42 PM
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Banned
Regular Member
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 52
Elk River
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@Rick_H
"His child Henry" knows very well what he is doing. He is sent here to be a distraction, to cause disruptions in the deep searching for truth on this forum. He is perfectly aware of how ignorant his statements are. They are only meant to cause disruption. There have been many others in the past sent here to disrupt these advancements in knowledge of the glory of God. There are whole organizations designed to attack our faith on these online forums.
Last edited by JPT; 02/01/20 12:43 PM.
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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: Rick H]
#191699
02/01/20 12:46 PM
02/01/20 12:46 PM
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Banned
Regular Member
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 52
Elk River
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It is when the righteous unite in truth that these men will have no choice but to flee.
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Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
[Re: Rick H]
#191700
02/01/20 12:58 PM
02/01/20 12:58 PM
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Banned
Regular Member
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 52
Elk River
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What is amazing to me is that I saw the same thing happening here a few years ago, and the one person who stood for the truth against those who want to destroy the Testimonies was removed from this forum. Here it is years later and you are calling this man a false prophet just like the other person who was removed did yet it is ok for you to do it Brother Rick H?
Last edited by JPT; 02/01/20 01:00 PM.
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