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Re: The Presence of Christ and the Changed Life
[Re: Daryl]
#193825
02/27/21 06:43 PM
02/27/21 06:43 PM
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No response to this post??? Nadi,
I shared your posts with my wife and this is her response in her own typed out words to your post:
It's not my place to condemn you or preach to you. You don't need that.
Somewhere along the way you became discouraged and that's OK. We all go through dark seasons. The point is not to stay there too long. We all experience doubt and we are sometimes so afraid to express our doubt that we will be preached at or criticized by others.
You know the Lord is merciful to those who doubt in Jude 1:22.
Man, you're right if we put our whole focus on church leadership we may be disappointed. Even Jesus in His day was plain disgusted with the leadership and in Revelation it says that He is sick of pretenders and wants to vomit them out of His mouth.
"How precious are your thoughts to me O God! How great is the sum of them!" Psalms 139:17
Thank you for your honesty.
Can we be your friends?
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Re: The Presence of Christ and the Changed Life
[Re: Daryl]
#193827
02/27/21 07:28 PM
02/27/21 07:28 PM
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OP
NON-SDA Active Member 2020
Full Member
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
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Sorry, my bad. I didn't realize a response from me was so important. There is a danger that my comments will be interpreted as anger against the church, and looking at people instead on God, and not keeping my eyes on Jesus. This leads to doubt and discouragement, and questioning God. And although it started with a component of that, by examining the dynamic I realized that God is not working in ANYONE'S life. The self-serving mantra of "keep your eyes on Jesus" and "we shouldn't look at others" are convenient dogma of the uncommitted leaders and rank and file members who want to continue their abuse of the flock and each other free of any judgement. By contrast, the apostle Paul, in virtually every one of his letters, reminded the church to REMEMBER HOW HE ACTED AND LIVED AMONG THEM. In other words, "Look at me for an example." As a result of the above, I realized that God was NOT acting in ANY capacity, because he's not changing ANY lives. And he certainly hasn't changed mine. So I stopped fooling myself. My reality does not include any actions of any kind of "god." This is your choice, not my dictum.
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: The Presence of Christ and the Changed Life
[Re: Nadi]
#193828
02/27/21 08:34 PM
02/27/21 08:34 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
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Does God change lives? Yes.
When you "surrendered to God" or "accepted Jesus" did you experience a "presence of God" in your life? Yes
Did you, and or Do you, feel God's presence and participation in your life each day?
No, our feelings tend to fluctuate, they are not a safe criterion. We are not to look within for evidence of our acceptance with God. We shall find there nothing but that which will discourage us. In times when one does not "feel" God's presence, is especially the time to search God's Word and believe God's promises. We must take Christ at His word, believe that He came to this earth to die because He loved me and wants me in His kingdom. The cross of Calvary is an eternal pledge to every one of us
Does he give you a "calm assurance" (whatever that means) that he is with you, helping you, daily.
Yes, but it is not an automatic always, all the time. It is based on the individual seeking God DAILY. It is based on a continuous relationship.
Just one story -- when my daughter had just received her drivers license she drove to a pre-determined destination by herself. She was to phone home when she arrived (This was before cell phones) Time passed -- way past the time when she should have arrived. I had absolutely NO CALM -- all kinds of terrible things were racing through my mind. UNTILL I fell on my knees, and started praying, committing her into His care. Repeating promises of His love and care -- and YES, it was very real the peace that settle over me.
There are so many times -- so many little things, as well as bigger things, in which I sense God's presence and care. It is humbling, for why would He care so much, and yet it is the hope and assurance that He is real and His promises are real.
When you come to a decision point in your life (large or small) and you bring the matter to God in prayer, what do you get for an answer? and how is that answer relayed? Does he speak to you in words you can hear?
There was once when I literally heard His voice -- maybe it was the voice of my guardian angel -- I don't know, but I do know it saved my life. I was all alone driving. The voice shouted in my ear, I obeyed and escaped sure death.
If the decision is between something defined as right or wrong in scripture -- we need to look to God's Word for the answer, not ask Him to change His mind.
However, I think you are asking about decisions that involve choices, either of which could be right. That does take a lot of praying. Asking for some tangible sign -- to open or close doors -- or some other evidence to help us choose. God did give us minds to weigh the pros and cons and compare them with His Word. Sometimes it would be easier if He just spoke -- "do this" -- but He does give us choices as well as help in making them.
does he give you a dream, where someone or something comes to you with instructions? Or a vision or trance where God gives direction?
Not usually, though it can happen. I have had dreams that influenced my decisions -- though I've never put much confidence in my dreams.
To say that God will answer your prayers with Yes, No or Wait, or to say that "In the end it all worked out" is to set the bar at the lowest possible level for an All-Knowing, All-Powerful, All-Loving God.
I don't really see it that way. Too often we want to be in control of God, to get control of some of His power to do or have what we want -- rather than let Him do what He (who knows us better than we know ourselves) knows is best for us.
While God desires for us to be in good health and happy in this life, that is not the most important thing. He is much more interested in our eternal life -- to save us from sin and the eternal death and bring us into true health and happiness in an eternal life with Him
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Re: The Presence of Christ and the Changed Life
[Re: Nadi]
#193885
03/14/21 08:32 AM
03/14/21 08:32 AM
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SDA Active Member 2024 Supporting Member 2023
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,205
Alberta, Canada
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So my question is "Who has experienced a change of life, who experiences the Spirit within, and what is the Presence of Christ like in your life?" Interesting responses from interesting people. I did notice, however, that all responses avoided the crucial question in the OP. Perhaps I have not been clear with the question. I'll try again. Does God change lives? When you "surrendered to God" or "accepted Jesus" or "Asked God to take control of your life" (all of which, by the way, I have done multiple times over) did you experience a "presence of God" in your life? Did you, and or Do you, feel God's presence and participation in your life each day? Does he give you a "calm assurance" (whatever that means) that he is with you, helping you, daily. When you come to a decision point in your life (large or small) and you bring the matter to God in prayer, what do you get for an answer? and how is that answer relayed? Does he speak to you in words you can hear? "Nadi, this is the right path for you." Or does he give you a dream, where someone or something comes to you with instructions? Or a vision or trance where God gives direction? To say that God will answer your prayers with Yes, No or Wait, or to say that "In the end it all worked out" is to set the bar at the lowest possible level for an All-Knowing, All-Powerful, All-Loving God. For the intelligent, thinking person, it is no bar at all. Humanity sets the bar for other humans much higher. So this God is unable to render a clear, unmistakable answer. The real point, however, is that I have never experienced any of the events mentioned above. No presence of God. No assurance of his care. No clear answers to my life predicaments or direction seeking. And I have never encountered anyone who displays such characteristics. The very fact that some of you are apologizing for behaviors indicates that you haven't either. And the fact that none of you have admitted to Gods clear presence, voice and direction also indicates he doesn't act. And if you do say you have experienced such there are only two possibilities: 1. You're lying. 2. God favors some people over others. I must also add that it is largely from my time on this forum, under various user names, that I recognized that God is neither in my life nor in any of the forum members lives. I cannot speak for you, but I have AGONIZED over having God's spirit, fasted and prayed, read Scripture, pleaded in prayer....all to a deaf and uncaring God. Now, none of this bothers me anymore. You all keep up the in-fighting, the defense of a weak and unresponsive God, the squabbling about "false doctrines" and "Sunday Laws" and "Mark of the Beast" and all the other stuff I used to take such interest in. Not that I'm any better that you. I just don't care.... Would you be master of your fate, captain of your soul, if you really had no choice? If God is so uncaring and impotent, how is it that you have been lurking in the shadows for so long? What have you been looking for? Where did you find the will to come here? It would have been so much easier to just crawl back into the bottle? Why bother with a site packed to the brim with comatose Laodiceans, Peter, puddle walker, wannabes, and hypocrites? Did you believe someone here could restore your faith? I thought you had read the Bible? Don?t you remember what Christ said, don?t put your faith in people. People will always let you down. How many stood by Him? None! Are you really surprised? Those words apply to you, too. So "Nadi", you want someone to model Christ for you? I wish I could. Sadly, I?m not worth the dirt between His road weary toes. Have I experienced a change of life? When, I was eighteen or nineteen (I?m not sure which, I was drunk and high most of the time), I was an agnostic, unfaithful husband, and lousy father to my new born daughter. Late one night, between "social functions", I was laying in bed thinking about one of those people who you never see, or almost never. He was a young Mennonite man. Strong as an ox, I once saw him playfully flatten a guy over six feet tall against a wall with one hand. Yet he was one of the most gentle, patient, and good natured souls I had ever encountered. He was constantly challenged and ridiculed for being a Christian, in a decidedly unchristian small northern town. Many times, he was placed in situations that would have justified physical confrontations, he would have easily won. Yet, through humour, patience, wisdom, and faith he always found other ways. I came to admire his character which was far stronger than his arm. This led me to search for truth in a place where it had never really occurred to me to look before. I asked God to show me why my friend had so much peace? I had never in my life held a Bible, and certainly never read one. But that night, I saw Christ nailed and bleeding, staring into my eyes. Through His agony, He poured His love, His life, His soul into me. Did I change? I thought so then, but soon it became all too apparent that the only change was that, like Adam before the tree, my eyes had been opened. I quickly returned to my unwholesome habits. Only, now I was aware of my sad state. After decades of running, I finally realized the ugly truth. A Christian is not perfect, far from it. The constant attacks on my faith, the steady diet of discouragement from failure after failure, fall after fall, the silence and ice cold stares from "loving" church members after my marriage finally disintegrated, convinced me that we are all too far gone, too accustomed to steering our own ships, most of us will never stand back and let Jesus take the wheel. Sometimes, I think about the friend from my youth. I still don?t know how he stayed so strong, so connected to God. Such people are few and far between, but there have been others over the years. The metal guitar lead in an up and coming band who surrendered his life to God. Now, an acoustic playing Adventist pastor, so filled with gratitude and joy that members follow him and his family from place to place, from church to church, as the conference continually reassigns him. The metro street worker who gave a barefoot homeless man the shoes off of his feet and continued with his daily rounds in socks. What is the Presence of Christ like in my life? Well, I know He loves me. Otherwise, I wouldn?t be here. I wouldn?t be the master of my fate, captain of my soul. The devil?s voice is sweet, indeed. But, he only offers a single choice, death. He would never offer his life for me, never reach out through white hot pain to wipe a tear from my face and with a shaking finger, write his name across my heart. He would never bless me with his dying breath. Has my life really changed? Does God have any power in the real world? I don?t have any answers for you, Nadi. The platitudes and euphemisms of religious folk fall flat in the real world. All, I can tell you is that for most of my life, I have been a drunk, a drug addict, a thief, an adulterer, and a violent criminal. I certainly was not the sort to apologize over hurt feelings. Unlike, the good people of this site, I was never someone you would want to invite over for dinner. And still, through all of that, Jesus kept calling out to me, whispering His love to me through the haze of pain that I had inflicted on Him. After decades of running, giving God the silent treatment every time satan called, I gave up or maybe I just got too tired to run anymore. I decided to keep right on talking to God, even if I was not following Him, even if I didn?t sense Him, I decided to not let Him go. He would either heal me or He would kill me. Either way, I was done with running from Him. I?m not sure how to describe the intervening years... They have been a sort of slow motion falling away. Changes coming so gradually that I hardly notice. Over time, I found myself not wanting to steal: returning a lost wallet, trying to return overpayments to strangers online. Parties and drugs just sort of lost their shine as their shallow appeal became slowly apparent. Suddenly, lies that we?re always so easy and natural, caught in my throat, making my heart pound, and engendering a feeling of nausea. Monogamy become a precious, even sacred thing. Violence is something I came to abhor. The more calamitous the world becomes the more I long for peace. Perfect is light years away, but I know I?m forgiven. I have seen the power of my God. What draws you back to this place, Nadi? Why do you care what we flawed and hurting Christians experience? Somewhere, deep inside, you must hear the voice of Love, pleading through the pain you share.
"...I will not forget you. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: The Presence of Christ and the Changed Life
[Re: Nadi]
#193889
03/14/21 07:20 PM
03/14/21 07:20 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
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Blessings, Prodigal. A precious promise -- Phil. 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
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Re: The Presence of Christ and the Changed Life
[Re: Nadi]
#196039
07/19/23 12:55 PM
07/19/23 12:55 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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One of the aspects of Christianity is the promise of God to come and dwell in us, give us the Fruits of the Spirit, and create a new person from the old.
So my question is "Who has experienced a change of life, who experiences the Spirit within, and what is the Presence of Christ like in your life?"
The reason for asking is that I see very little evidence for God's power in people's lives, either mine or anyone else's, and especially not in the lives of those who make the strongest claims to the Spirit, and not at all in any kind of church leadership or management.
So I would like to explore this question, because this is one of the key reasons I have moved away from Christianity.
If you can discuss this in a kind and loving way, understanding that that I am seriously looking for answers here, you are welcome and please help me out.
If you can't...well, that just proves my point. I realize this is a very old post but it is a very important one. I would say the biggest reason we don't see an answer to our prayers is our lack of faith. Jesus told the two blind beggars that it would be done to them according to their faith. The same goes for us. In my eyes we need to claim God's promises such as Ezekiel 36: 25-27 and the new covenant promise found in Jeremiah and Hebrews. John tells us in in John 17: 3 that to know God and Jesus Christ who He has sent is life eternal. This is what is called righteousness by faith by SDAs as intimately knowing God as a person changes us from the inside out for God is so loving, kind, just, etc... that we can't help loving Him once we personally know Him. We come to reflect who He is by the indwelling power of the HS.
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