The word Euphrates river has an end boundary connotation throughout the Bible. Just a few examples are:

Gen. 15:18 "In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates"

Gen. 2:14 "And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates."

2 Kings 24:7 "And the king of Egypt came not again any more out of his land: for the king of Babylon had taken from the river of Egypt unto the river Euphrates all that pertained to the king of Egypt.

Rev. 16:12 "And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."

Rather than focusing on the literal location, the connotation indicates the time of the end when Jesus is coming. The sixth plague vial poured out upon the great river Euphrates and the way of the kings of the east came, which, in other words, is the second coming of Jesus.

This is the text --

Rev. 9:13-21 " Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet,
Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed,
Angel with trumpet unbinds the four angels who were bound at the Euphrates.
The text says they were BOUND and were to be unbound.

which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

So those four angels which had been bound at the Euphrates were specially prepared to slay 1/3 of the population at a specific time.

And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed,

So those four angels didn't do the work of slaying 1/3 of the population by themselves, they had a huge army of armed horsemen who killed 1/3 of the population.


by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

That army of horsemen sound like fire breathing dragons, with serpent like tails.

And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."

Though they kill 1/3 of the population, there are still 2/3 of unrepentant people living at the end of this trumpet. World population now stands at 7.7 billion. So if 1/3 died, that would be 2.5 billion die, there would still be 5 billion unrepentant people left. Who still have a chance to repent.

It doesn't sound like the 2nd coming I've read about in the scripture. It sounds more like dispensationalist interpretation where they believe at Christ's second coming the outright enemies will be destroyed, Christ sets up his kingdom here on earth, and by force converts all the rest, and reigns for 1000 years here on earth.

The biblical understanding that I believe is that at the 2nd coming, the righteous go to heaven with Christ for 1000 years.
And ALL the unsaved are no longer alive. There will NOT be billions of unrepentant ones still doing business as usual. The earth will be empty of human life for 1000 years.




4. The 6th trumpet is NOT the second coming, these four from the Euphrates are not good angels, they have tails like serpents and heads that hurt. Like the three spirits like frogs, represent beast, dragon and false prophet, these four represent human powers. Powers released from the Euphrates.
Yes, the Euphrates was kind of a border line, separating God's people from the idolaters of Babylon.

I don't see a practical value in believing that the four angels are evil. First, they shouldn't be the controlling forces in slaying 1/3 of humanity.

A proper exegete would be by linking the functions and meanings of words rather than speculating mystically. There are always unrepentant people in every generation. Why would God kill them arbitrarily because they were alive at a particular time?

The punishment of God will come on the day of vengeance at the Second Coming. God said, I will avenge your blood: Rev. 18:20 "Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her" and 19:2 "For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand."


Those who are unrepentant-the remainders of the slayed population will be cast to the lake of fire: Rev. 19:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."
We find horsemen who follow the white horse rider, Jesus Christ, in Revelation: Rev. 19:14 "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

The pericope of the passage must come from a recognizable text that can provide cohesiveness and meaning to a full passage. Thus, at the sixth trumpet, a voice came from the temple, the Father God's voice, to loose the four angels, and they instantaneously obeyed by passing the vials of the plagues to the seven angels. Then, 200 million horsemen were activated to slay the wicked upon the earth. Those holy angels would no longer minister to the wicked. They will withdraw God's common grace, mercy, and blessings from the wicked. Consequently, evil will destroy evil: Ezek. 38:21 "And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother."

So the part fits the whole that the destructive powers of evil, the head, and tail are the activities of the evil angels. The interpretation does not violate theological contexts in its immediate and broad contexts.
The sixth trumpet fits the snapshot of the introduction that the probation for humanity will cease at the second coming of Jesus.

What we may think is of practical value, isn't the guide, we need to look at the context of the passage'

Those four angels bound at the Euphrates weren't in "control". They were bound.
The Greek word for" bound" (de?: to tie, bind;) is only used twice in the Book of Revelation.
Those four bound angels at the Euphrates in Rev. 9:15. and Satan bound in the bottomless pit in Rev. 20:10
In both cases the "binding" renders them incapable of action.
John uses the same word three times in the epistle of John. John 11:44 Lazarus bound in grave clothes,. John 18:12 soldiers and Jewish officers bound Jesus, John 18:24 Annas bound Jesus and sent Him to Caiaphas.

To be "bound" means to be tied up, with ropes or chains, restricted.
THE CONTEXT concerning these four angels is that they were bound, they restrained in some way.
It was in God's mercy they were held back, but just like in Israel of old, when people turn away from God, His protection is withdrawn.
Thus when iniquity reached a full level, in His own timing God commissions the trumpet angel to unbind, and loose those four angels They were given their days to display their evil work.

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Agreed we are not to speculate. That is why I seek to look at the context of the passage and see what the words used mean, There is nothing mystical, it's right in the passage. Those four angels were bound, restrained, till a heavenly angel unloosed them.
Actually mystical, spiritualized interpretations come from ignoring context and linking words together.


????God? Arbitrarily?? Now looking at the context of the passage, WHO killed 1/3 of the population?
What does the passage say as to who killed 1/3 of the population?

And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed,
by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

So taking all this in context and not jumping all over to unrelated texts, we see plainly it's those four angels that were loosed from their restraint, who, with huge armies did the destruction.
The horsemen in that army are the ones with tails like unto serpents and heads that hurt. These are NOT Christ's horsemen riding with Him from heaven..




Yes, God will take care of the whole sin problem in a final way at the second coming. But Karen -- if you follow God's dealings with mankind all through scripture, there is no way you can come to the conclusion that He hasn't let judgments fall all through history.
Just an example -- Israel was often besieged and suffered because of armies attacking. If they turned to God, He would deliver them. But eventually God's didn't protect them anymore, Jerusalem fell twice to invading armies . Judgments have fallen all through the Biblical history.
The sixth trumpet is such a judgment. And yes, it is a warning that a much greater judgment is coming.





And Karen, this is where I see the biggest problem that makes it impossible for me to even consider your interpretation as the correct interpretation.
The lake of fire in Rev. 19:20 takes place after the 1000 years are past. Not at the second coming.
The coming of Jesus pictured as horsemen in Rev. 19:14 depict Christ's second coming before the 1000 years.

The sixth trumpet is not talking about either of those two events.

The sixth trumpet is telling us something happens involving huge armies that kills 1/3 of the population. JUST 1/3
That leaves 2/3 of the population, living unrepentant and continuing in their sins. Thus it can not be the second coming.

And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."

You seem to tell me this army that kills 1/3 is Christ's second coming?
I ask you, what about the 2/3 that are not killed at that coming, but remain alive, unrepentant.
You tell me they will be thrown in the lake of fire, but that is at the end of the 1000 years????

So what happens during those 1000 years? It seems to be just lifting different thoughts out of the passage and totally ignoring the context of the passage itself.

The only thing I see that method of interpretation leading to, and fitting is a popular interpretation which believes that at Christ's second coming He will destroy the worst of His enemies, but then sets up His kingdom here on earth for the 1000 years and forces everyone to receive Him as their king. But that's a deceptive way Revelation gets interpreted because the one setting up that kingdom won't be Jesus Christ, that will be an impersonator pretending to be Christ, and most of the world will believe it is the true Christ.





Yes, yes, it is the activity of evil angels. Those four angels that were bound at the Euphrates are not the heavenly four angels that are holding back the winds of strife. Nor is that huge army that destroys 1/3 of the population Christ's heavenly horsemen.

To find true interpretation the CONTEXT needs to be recognized, before one goes looking for word associations.

Actually we come to Revelation from very different perspectives. For me the historicist interpretation makes perfect sense and gives cohesiveness and meaning as each cycle of seven churches, seals and trumpets span over the great controversy playing out in time from John's day to the final restoration of all things.
The middle chapters 12-14 portray the two spiritual forces, 1. Satan and his agents and their false counterfeit worship program which for a time appear to be victorious through force and deception, and
2. the Lamb and His faithful Who ARE victorious without guile or deception in faith and obedience to righteousness.
From chapter 15 onward the book deals specifically with endtime events, the demise of the evil forces and the grand ending in eternity of the redeemed.

On the other hand, you seem to place most everything in the future, end time, and thus merge everything together in (what I perceive) as a jumble of allusions and spiritualization. Not that the thoughts in themselves are wrong, and may even be included as a lesson learned from the experience, yet it's not the context of the passage and yes, I see them as a mystical interpretation -- I realize that for you, in your personal understanding you seem to see them supporting key Adventist teachings, but that method of interpretation can just as easily fit any other end time teachings, for the method is based on rather random word association rather than actual context within the passage itself, and different believers associate those words differently.

Thus we probably would never come to an agreement,
As I see the sixth trumpet as symbolic of a literal conflict. The Turks were allowed to destroy 1/3 of the Christian population, conquering and ending the eastern Christian Byzantine Empire, and greatly harassing the western Christian world. . Their armies were large and they were aggressive for over several 100 years with countless battles, it seemed their army was endless., During the reformation time, Europe was under continuous attacks from the Turks. Previously the papal church had launched out and out warfare on "the heretics" (those who didn't accept Rome's authority) So the Turk' s aggressiveness gave those not in agreement with the church some respite, but the church didn't change.

The book of Revelation speaks about two different times of the Lake of Fire.

Rev. 19:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone"

Rev. 20:10, 14, 15 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

In Ch. 19, when Jesus returns, those wicked who are alive will be "cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone" (Rev. 19:20). These are the remainders of the unrepentant after 1/3 of humanity slain by 200 million horsemen.

At the second coming, the lake of fire has a more intensified heat than after a thousand years when the New Jerusalem is coming down to earth from heaven because there are more combustible materials on earth than in the third coming. It says, "a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Isa. 51:6 "Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished."

Isa. 30:33 "For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it."

Rev. 20:10, 14, 15 say that on the third coming of Jesus, the wicked resurrect, and Satan and evil angels will be cast into the lake of fire. All the elements melt already at the second coming; there is no mention of brimstone with the lake of fire.

I don't believe God casts unrepentant sinners into the lake of fire twice. There is only ONE lake of fire which totally cleanses the earth.,

Scripture says being cast into the lake of fire is called the second death (Rev. 20:14; 21:8).


The lake of fire is the final act in destroying all sin. . Now, there?s something about prophecy we need to understand. And this point has been explained many times by people who study Biblical prophecy. Imagine you?re looking at a mountain range from a long distance away. From your perspective, you see mountains with several peaks. But do you know what you don?t see? You don?t see the distance between them. As someone who enjoyed mountain climbing I realize this is very true.There are peaks and valleys in a mountain range, but from a distance, you don?t see the valleys. Some prophecies seem to be right together, but then you see there is a considerable valley of information between them.. From the time that of the first utterance of the prophecy\ until the fulfillment of the prophecy begins, there could be a valley of time between the actual events, or fulfillment of the prophecy.

So yes, there are places in scripture where the author doesn't bother to show us the 1000 year valley between the Second coming and final judgement, and just focus on the fact the earth will be utterly destroyed by lake of fire that covers the earth like a boiling molten sea.

That's basically what happens in Revelation 19

Christ with the armies of heaven ride forth and by vs 18 all the rebels, from the kings, to the commoners are dead, food for the vultures.
Paul tells us the beast (the man of sin) is consumed by the brightness of Christ's coming.2 Thess. 2
Any literal fire at the second coming is NOT the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death from which no one returns.

1000 years after the second coming, the beast and false prophet and all who joined them receiving the mark of the beast, will live again and join Satan in the Lake of fire..
At the second coming the unrepentant living die, but it's not the "second death" , the second death is eternal death. ( They are asleep in death,till the 1000 years pass, which for them will be but a moment and they are awakened out of their sleep, they are raised. These resurrected unsaved, gather a great army to attack God's city.
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Rev. 19:20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.?
Rev. 20:10 ?And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev. 20:14 ?Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.?
Rev. 20:15 ?And if anyone?s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.?

Rev. 21:8 ?But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.?

When was the beast was taken and the false prophet? What did they do to deserve to be cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone?

The beast and the false prophet were captured at the Second Coming of Jesus, according to Rev. Ch. 19. They were "cast alive into a lake of fire" of brimstone because they deceived people that received the mark of the beast and caused them to worship his image. God won't preserve them until thousand years later to put them in the lake of fire. Scripture speaks of the first death event that will happen at the return of Jesus without spelling it out. The first death is the portion for the most wicked. God will resurrect those-special resurrections - which pierced Christ to include them in the first death.

Rev. 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

Jesus comes to bind Satan, so He can take God's people to heaven when He makes this final war. The most wicked alive will die in the first death by the glory of His coming at this time. If there is a second death, there must be first death.

Matt. 12:29 "Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house"

There will be no one to deceive by Satan during the thousand years since that alive-wicked died in the first death.

At the third coming of Jesus, "the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:10). Yes, Revelation also speaks about the second death that will happen to all those resurrect of the wicked after the thousand years of the judgment after the redeemed saints review all the cases.

Then, the lake of fire will consume death and hell by the second death. It will be experienced by all those "whosoever not found written" in the book of life (Rev. 20:14, 15). Some of the most wicked will have to suffer death three times; natural death, the first and second.

The first death is NOT something that is unique to the second coming. It is the lot of the whole human race.

Everyone from Adam to our present day dies the first death, both the saved and the unsaved go to their grave. The first death is called a "sleep" in scripture, because they will all be awakened, resurrected at some point. There are only a few exceptions -- Enoch and Elijah, and the last saved living at the second coming who escape the first death. Everyone else, from Adam and Eve, to our present day, including many of my loved ones, who were laid in the grave, have died the first death. If Jesus doesn't come in the next few years, you and I, like all those generations before us, will suffer the first death as well. Human life is short and ends in death. All who die the first death are resting in total unconscious, mindless sleep, awaiting the resurrection.

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
15:23 But every man in his own order

Those who pierced Christ have all already died the first death, they are dead. They are dead, in the unconscious sleep of death, awaiting the their resurrection.

The Bible speaks of three resurrections.
Everyone who is resurrected has already died the first death.

1. A limited special resurrection just before Christ's second coming, (Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.) in which a special group of saved who are sleeping in the first death, will be made alive again to see Jesus coming. They will be taken to heaven with everlasting life.
And another special group of those that pierced Christ, who also died the first death many years earlier, will be raised just before Christ's second coming, and will see Jesus, the One they crucified, coming in brilliant glory, (Matt 26:64 (Jesus answered the High Priest)Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.they will see Christ coming, but their restored life will be very short, for they die again.

2. THE FIRST RESURRECTION takes place at the second coming, in which all the saved who died the first death throughout earth's history, are raised unto eternal life. Never to face death again.
Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy are they that have part in the first resurrection: on such the second death has no power,

3. THE SECOND RESURRECTION takes place after the 1000 years in which all the UNSAVED who died the first death throughout earth's history (they were not resurrected in the first resurrection) they are resurrected after the 1000 years. These will face the second death in the lake of fire.

Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
Rev. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.



Who is the beast? Who is the false prophet?
Do you believe they are two individuals alive at Christ's second coming?
Or two systems in operation, with many people involved in each system?

I don't believe they are two individuals. The beast has been around for 1500 or more years deceiving people. The beast is an organization, a false priesthood, a religious system that claims to take the place of God. Yes, some individuals from that papal power will be alive at Christ's second coming, but thousands who engaged in that system, are in their graves, and those alive at the second coming will join their deceased fellow mates in the grave. Rev. 19:18 explains that--19:18 Calling the fowls...That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Notice what happens to ALL MEN who are fighting against Christ when He comes, in verse 18, they will be dead, no more life, till the 1000 years are over, they won't be preserved or burned up in a lake of fire at this point.--

Same with the false prophet, (the second beast of Rev. 13) it is a religious/political power . ALL men active in these systems will be dead. The systems -- the beast and false prophet aren't "preserved" those thousand years, in the lake of fire, but the lake of fire will destroy those systems completely. They are thrown in after the 1000 years, unless you believe the lake of fire lasts 1000 years, because scripture has them in the lake of fire with satan, after the 1000 years in Rev. 20:10

So yes, when are they all captured? It will be after they are all resurrected in the second resurrection, after the 1000 years, when the whole systems that deceived the world over ( not just the last final deception) are thrown into the lake of fire, that's when the second death has it's power over those systems to obliterate them forever.

There is only ONE LAKE of fire, it represents the final and complete cleansing of all evil, and it takes place after the white throne judgment takes place.
Just because this lake of fire, is referred to previously does not mean it happens every time it's referred to, it is the final destiny of all evil, and takes place ONCE AND FOR ALL to cleanse the earth of all sin and its results forever.

Are you saying that the another special group will experience third death? There is no such as third death in the Scripture. Like you mentioned that when saints die in the natural death, the Bible refers as sleep in the Lord, not the first death.