Yes, the first death leads to two resurrections, one thousand years apart, with the first resurrection leading to eternal life and the second resurrection leading to the second death in the Lake of Fire, from which there isn't any awakening, as it leaves neither root nor branch.

Take a look at the Sabbath School Lesson #13 that will be discussed this Sabbath.

As far as your, (Karen's) sequencing of the lake of fire, just doesn't fit for me.
The way it makes much more sense is seeing the authors lumping things together to make a point.

Peter in 2Peter 3 writes that to God a 1000 years is as a day, and a day as a 1000 years.
Peter tells in a nutshell the major points of what takes place over a 1000 year period.

If one believes it all happens at the second coming then all the events of Revelation 20 don't make sense anymore. For everything is already burned up and destroyed and the earth is already made new at the beginning of the 1000 years. Why would it all burn again?
No, Peter simply sweeps over the whole 1000 years without going into everything in those 1000 years.
He tells us Christ is coming, everything in this earth will be destroyed, the earth will be made new. The high points, not the details or timing.

In Revelation 20, the lake of fire comes AFTER the 1000 years are over.
Yes Rev. 19 assures the reader that even though the representatives of the beast and false prophet died the first death (sleep) at the second coming (as did all the lost alive at that point in time) yet the system of the whole beast and false prophet will experience the second death, they will be captured and end up in the lake of fire. And there we see them in Rev. 20 after the 1000 years.
The lake of fire happens AFTER the 1000 years are over.
The earth is made new AFTER the earth is cleansed with that fire that cleanses everything AFTER the 1000 years.
Once the earth is made new, there will be no more death, sorrow, or sin ever again.
That's the only way it makes sense to me.

Heb. 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."

Does this verse mean everyone, righteous and the wicked, will die "once to die"? Yes, the passage plainly states that. However, does the passage of "once to die" mean the first death for every human? Or must we distinguish what it means between the death of the righteous and the wicked from here?

Let me think carefully and dig deeper.

The baptism ceremony means death and resurrection. And the righteous experience death when the self is crucified with Christ.

With this said, the righteous experience "once to die" as Paul stated in Gal 2:20.

Gal. 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Once we die to Christ, there is no need to experience any other death. Remember that a saint's death is not a death but a sleep.

Again, the Bible never calls the saint's death the first death, but sleep in the Lord.

Ps. 116:15 "Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints."
John 11:13 "Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Rev. 14:13 "...Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."

Of course, the wicked will experience "the once to die" when they die. But it is not the first death because Revelation denotes the first and second death as suffering the lake of fire alive.

Some wicked alive will have to experience a lake of fire at the Second Coming, for they will be captured alive to be thrown into it. Rev. 19:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

If they are captured alive, where will they be preserved if the lake of fire only comes at the third coming of Jesus?
The second death is mentioned only in Revelation. And the concept of the first death is hidden elsewhere in Rev. Thus, Rev. 19:20-21 clarify this understanding of the first death, which happens at the second coming.

I'll stick to the literal definition of death, the conversion experience is not literal death While spiritual conversion, and spiritual life, does determine which resurrection we come up in, it does not give the definition of the first and second death.

Here it is from scripture:

All people die the first death literally.
And yes that death is equally experienced by the righteous and wicked, all die that first death.
Whether it is Abraham and Daniel or Ahab and Jezebel.
They all died the first death and are in the grave.

This sentence fell upon ALL Adam's descendents:

Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen. 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread, till you return unto the ground; for out of it you were taken: for you are dust, and unto dust shall you return.

Eccl, 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Heb. 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."
.

Because Christ gained the victory over the grave ALL will be resurrected

1 Cor. 15:22-23 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order:


John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The preadvent judgment determines which resurrection the people come up in, whither it be the first resurrection unto life (they are the blessed) or the second resurrection of damnation (they experience the second and final death from which there is no return)

2 Cor. 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power

But those who have "forsaken the right way, and are gone astray" "that cannot cease from sin" "shall utterly perish in their own corruption; "And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness," 2 Peter 2:12-15 They die again in the second death (see Rev. 21:8)

I will also stick to what dedication just posted.

There will be a lake of fire at the Second Coming of Jesus and on the third coming.

2 Pet. 3:6-7 " Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

2 Pet. 3:10-11 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness"

Rev. 19:20-21 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

At the second coming, Nothing is left after the lake of fire with brimstone dissolves all the elements.
Mal. 4:1-3 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

The wicked "shall be ashes under" the soles of our feet at the Second Coming from the lake of fire.

The lake of fire always receives the wicked alive, not as dead. That is the connotation of the lake of fire in Revelation. Therefore, the second death follows after the first death in the lake of fire a thousand years later.

Rev. 20:8 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

This passage does not mean that the beast and the false prophet will burn until the third coming. They will resurrect again to receive the final punishment after a thousand years.

Well Karen, I totally disagree with your sequencing of the events above and have explained it several times already from scripture.

Maybe if I quote Ellen White you will see that, even though the earth is made desolate, in ruins and depopulated, at the second coming, that is NOT the second death, nor is it the lake of fire. People do not die the second death twice.
Yes, all those who enter the lake of fire (which is the second death) will face the lake of fire alive (They were resurrected) at the end of the 1000 years, and die the eternal death, but the lake of fire, which is the second eternal death, DOES NOT occur at the second coming, that doesn't happen until AFTER the 1000 years and AFTER the last judgment scene before the Great White Thone, that's pretty plain in Rev. 20.

2 Peter 3 covers the WHOLE 1000 year period, it does not all happen at the second coming. A thousand years to the Lord is as a day, and a day as a thousand years. (That's right there in that same chapter) Peter's depiction includes the whole 1000 years and ends with the earth made new.

And besides, those who were alive at the second coming, but died, for them that death (though 1000 years) is but a short sleep, it's still the "sleep" death, from which they awake and find themselves outside the city, lost. They, along with all the lost who come up in that second resurrection, will first be shown just how much God wanted to save them but they rejected and rebelled against His saving grace, BEFORE they perish forever in the lake of fire.

Dear Dedication, I hear what you are saying about the lake of fire from your perspective. You put the second death as identical to the lake of fire. So, you have to disagree with my perspective.

I understand that the lake of fire with brimstone happens at the second coming, as Rev. 19:20-21 clearly stated, which I believe is the first death for the wicked alive. When New Jerusalem comes down to earth after 1000 years, all the dead wicked resurrect to receive the final judgment. They will be thrown alive into the lake of fire as Rev. 20:10 says: "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Every element on earth will melt at the second coming because fierce fire occurs with great earthquakes. All the nuclear plants and gas pipes in this world will explode. Rev. 16:18 says, "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great." 2 Pet. 3 described the Day of the Lord as the second coming, not as a course of the duration of 1000 years.

Only Satan remains in the bottomless pit(the earth) for 1000 years in total darkness. The sun and moon do not exist anymore. And the hails of 60 pounds will cover the ground.
Rev. 20:3,5 " And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

Rev. 16:21 "And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

Jeremiah described the desolate earth after the second coming: Jer. 4:23 " I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light." This desolate condition of the earth was the beginning point before the creation occurred. Gen. 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep..."

When the wicked resurrect to receive their rewards after the thousand years of white-throne judgment, the lake of fire only has to devour the wicked with the devil and his evil angels.

Yes, that's correct, I do because the Bible puts the second death as the lake of fire.

21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev. 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I agree with the fact the earth will be left desolate, depopulated and ruined at the second coming. Yes there will be a terrible earthquake that topples and ruins buildings and even moves mountains, there will be hail smashing vegetation and man made structures, etc. There may even be some fires. I fully agree the earth will be desolate, after the second coming, nothing but ruins during those 1000 years.
BUT it's not the fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matt. 25: )The second coming does not inflict the second and final death. All that die at the second coming, are still dying the sleep first death as they will awake again. Nor is it the fire that burns and melts everything on the planet.

What is Peter referring to in 2 Peter 2. Do you see the phrase "seconding coming in that passage? Is Peter talking about the time when Christ comes to take His redeemed to heaven?

3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (When is the day of judgment against ALL UNGODLY MEN) That judgment is after the 1000 years when all the unsaved are resurrected)
3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (It may well begin at the second coming, as the day representing 1000 years stretches from the beginning of the "day of the Lord" to its end 1000 years after the saved have had a chance to review the sentence of the ungodly)
3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Remember 1000 years after the second coming, billions of unsaved are raised to life. They have to have a place to live. They wake up to a world in utter ruins. The world looking like a conquered city, but NOT where everything is completely burned up, because they start building again How would they prepare a vast formidable army, which takes some time) if everything was melted (that would include all metal) and everything burned up?

I don't have any issues understanding that the earth will be in ruins and depopulated at the second coming.

My real issue is in the interpretations you give to the first and second death.

Why do I disagree with your description of the first death?

Because you don't think the first death is the death that ALL DIE due to Adam's sin.
For you the first death is a punishment reserved only for very wicked people at the second coming.

Why is this a problem for me?
It ignores the victory Christ won over the grave.

Did Christ win the victory over the grave?
Is referring to death as "a sleep" something natural, or was it won by Christ's death and resurrection?
How do we understand the finality of the sentence given to Adam and his descendants?
Did God tell Adam, If you eat of the forbidden fruit you will fall asleep or that he would die?

This sentence uttered in Genesis, fell upon ALL Adam's descendants:

Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen. 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread, till you return unto the ground; for out of it you were taken: for you are dust, and unto dust shall you return.

Eccl, 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Let me explain a very important truth that I see missing in your interpretations:

That death that Adam, Abel, Cain and all people after them experience, as they died and were buried, and returned to the dust of the ground, WOULD HAVE BEEN THE END for them all. They return to dust and that would be the end forever.



But Christ won the victory over the grave, what does that mean?


1 Cor. 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.
15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

If Christ had not gained the victory over the grave by rising from the dead, then all those who die, whether wicked as well as those who accept Christ ARE ALL PERISHED.
In other words -- if Christ had not risen, no one will ever rise, even though we think they are asleep in Christ they would be perished forever.

But Christ did rise, He won the victory over the grave!

1 Cor. 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
15:23 But every man in his own order:


John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This is the truth that gets lost in your interpretation.

Your interpretation seems to say that death has always been just a sleep.

Yet when Adam sinned, death passed on all his descendants. This is the death we see every time we go to a funeral.

The truth is that this death, which every human faces WOULD BE THE FINAL death if Christ had not died, bearing our sins, and by rising again won the victory over the grave. The first death would have been the one and only death.
Why? because there was no sacrifice to cover.

You can argue this death that falls on every man is just a "sleep", BUT this is only true because CHRIST WON THE VICTORY over the grave, by dying as our sacrifice, and being resurrected .
Because He died and rose, ALL will be resurrected (all are now considered "sleeping" because they will wake up again. This was the hope given to Adam and Eve, and fulfilled when Christ died and rose again.

If Christ had not come to this earth, died and rose again, there would be no resurrection for anyone.
Without Christ's death and resurrection, that first death would be the final death, there would be NO second death, as there would be no resurrection of the dead.



Did Christ die the first or second death?
Now we believe Christ died the second death. How is that, as it looks like the first death?
We know wages of sin is death.
We realize that Jesus died without a sacrifice to cover Him. He took that risk, that His dying would be the eternal death, by coming to this world. Just by yielding to one sin, death would have held Him captive forever. Eternal death.
(The second death is the eternal death)
Without a sacrifice, a perfect substitute to cover our sins, sin results in eternal death.
For a time Christ could not see beyond the tomb while on the cross.
Jesus did NOT have any provision made to cover Him should He have yielded to sin. And He took on the sins of the whole world!!!!

But because Jesus had no sin of His own. Though He died for our sin, He Himself had no sin.
He ROSE!!!! he was triumphant over the grave!!!!!!

He gained the victory over sin, over death and over the grave.


Mankind still dies the first death, but because Christ won the victory over the grave, they WILL live again. Some to the resurrection of life, but others in the resurrection of damnation;. John 5:28-29

Those two resurrections from the first death were won for mankind by Christ.
It's because Christ won the victory over the grave that the first death is referred to as a sleep, because Christ guarantees we will be resurrected.

His death doesn't save us from the first death, but it guarantees us the resurrection from the first death. and if we accept Christ, accept His victory over sin, His cleansing power, and follow Him, we will never face a second death eternal death.

The second death is not His wish for anyone.

But sadly Christ's resurrection which wins the victory over the grave and assures the resurrection, also necessitates the second death, as those who reject what Christ won for them, though they too are raised to see what they have rejected, must die again, for they clung to sin, they refused to accept His victory over sin, which would have empowered them to forsake sin. ."if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation...having trodden under foot the Son of God, and have counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was to be sanctified, an unholy thing, and have done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10: 26-29