Have to look at the "Four Living Creatures" a bit deeper it seems, most interesting.

Here is from the lesson this week...
"Who are these 24 elders? In ancient Israel there were 24 divisions in the Levitical priesthood. These priests represented the people before God. In 1 Peter 2:9, the apostle declares that New Testament believers are a ?chosen generation,? ?a royal priesthood.? These 24 elders could, perhaps, represent all the redeemed that one day will rejoice around the throne of God; or, perhaps, they represent the people resurrected at Christ?s resurrection and who ascended to heaven with Him (Matt. 27:52, Eph. 4:7, 8).

Either way, this is good news. There are some of the redeemed from the earth around the throne of God. They faced temptations just as we face them. Through the grace of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, they overcame. They are clothed in ?white robes,? signifying the righteousness of Christ that covers and cleanses their sins. They have a golden crown upon their heads, signifying they are victorious in the battle with evil and are part of heaven?s royal line of faith-filled believers."... https://ssnet.org/lessons/23b/less05.html

While studying the lesson this jumped out at me in Revelation 5..
"1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

and compare verses 9 and 10 with Revelation 1:5 and 1:6...
"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Taking the view of the 24 elders as literal resurrect saints, ascended to heaven with Jesus when He returned 2000 years ago, is the road that has become fairly popular, and the translation in KJV tends to support the view. The fact that they sit on thrones indicates that they reign with Christ, something promised to the redeemed in various verses.

Yet the 4 living creatures sing the same song of Christ having redeemed "us" by His blood.


See --
the four beasts AND the four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb...And they sang a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

If the 24 elders are literal saved people, are the 4 living creatures also redeemed people?.
And I guess I have questions on that.|
Some say that the word "us" should have been "them" and the Greek would support that word as well.

I see the Bible versions that say them and they are based on the 'Alexandrian Text' which is not a good manuscript for prophecy to say the least. Here is Youngs Literal Translation on this..

Revelation 5:8-14
Young's Literal Translation
8 And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, having each one harps and golden vials full of perfumes, which are the prayers of the saints,

9 and they sing a new song, saying, `Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because thou wast slain, and didst redeem us to God in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,

10 and didst make us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth.'

11 And I saw, and I heard the voice of many messengers round the throne, and the living creatures, and the elders -- and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands --

12 saying with a great voice, `Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive the power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing!'

13 and every creature that is in the heaven, and in the earth, and under the earth, and the things that are upon the sea, and the all things in them, heard I saying, `To Him who is sitting upon the throne, and to the Lamb, [is] the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the might -- to the ages of the ages!'

14 and the four living creatures said, `Amen!' and the twenty-four elders fell down and they bow before Him who is living to the ages of the ages.

So the four living creatures represent heavenly beings who speak about humans, and the only thing I found was this.. "The four living creatures symbolize the exalted beings who serve God as His agents and the guardians of His throne (Ps. 99:1). Their wings point symbolically to their swiftness in carrying out God?s orders, and their eyes point to their intelligence. Their presence, together with the 24 elders and a myriad of angels around the throne (Rev. 5:11), shows that both heaven and earth are represented in the throne room."

and Selected Quotes from Ellen G. White
He who catches a glimpse of the matchless love of Christ counts all other things as loss, and looks upon Him as the chiefest among ten thousand and as the one altogether lovely. As seraphim and cherubim look upon Christ, they cover their faces with their wings. Their own perfection and beauty are not displayed in the presence and glory of their Lord. Then how improper it is for men to exalt themselves! Let them rather be clothed with humility, cease all strife for supremacy, and learn what it means to be meek and lowly of heart. He who contemplates God?s glory and infinite love, will have humble views of himself, but by beholding the character of God, he will be changed into His divine image.?That I May Know Him, p. 175.

?And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.? Isaiah 6:3.

These holy beings sang forth the praise and glory of God with lips unpolluted with sin. The contrast between the feeble praise which he [Isaiah] had been accustomed to bestow upon the Creator and the fervid praises of the seraphim, astonished and humiliated the prophet. . . .

The seraphim before the throne are so filled with reverential awe in beholding the glory of God that they do not for an instant look upon themselves with self-complacency, or in admiration of themselves or one another. Their praise and glory are for the Lord of Hosts. . . . They are fully satisfied to glorify God; and in His presence, beneath His smile of approbation, they wish for nothing more. In bearing His image, in doing His service and worshiping Him, their highest ambition is fully reached.?Conflict and Courage, p. 233.

In the year that King Uzziah died, Isaiah was permitted in vision to look into the holy place, and into the holy of holies in the heavenly sanctuary. The curtains of the innermost sanctuary were drawn aside, and a throne high and lifted up, towering as it were to the very heavens, was revealed to his gaze. An indescribable glory emanated from a personage on the throne, and His train filled the temple, as His glory will finally fill the earth. Cherubim were on either side of the mercy seat, . . . and they glowed with the glory that enshrouded them from the presence of God. . . . These holy beings sang forth the praise and glory of God.?Reflecting Christ, p. 338.

The crowning glory of Christ?s attributes is His holiness. The angels bow before Him in adoration, exclaiming, ?Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty.? Revelation 4:8. He is declared to be glorious in His holiness. Study the character of God. By beholding Christ, by seeking Him in faith and prayer, you may become like Him.?Counsels to Parents, Teachers, and Students, p. 402.

https://sabbath-school.adventech.io/en/2019-01/04/the-heavenly-assembly-in-the-throne-room/

And you see what it says on the 24 elders..."The description of the elders in Revelation 4:4 shows that they are not angelic beings. The title ?elders? in the Bible always is used for humans. In contrast to angels, who invariably stand in God?s presence, these elders sit on thrones. The white robes they wear are the attire of God?s faithful people (Rev. 3:4, 5). The victory crowns (from Greek stephanos, Rev. 4:4) on their heads are reserved exclusively for the victorious saints (James 1:12). All of these details suggest that the 24 elders are glorified saints.

The number 24 is symbolic: it consists of two sets of 12, the number 12 in the Bible being a symbol of God?s people. The 24 elders could represent God?s people in their totality, from both the Old and New Testament times. The number 24 also mirrors the chiefs of the 24 divisions of priests who took turns serving in the earthly temple services (1 Chron. 24:1?19).

The fact that the 24 elders were never mentioned before in the Bible implies that they are a new group in the heavenly throne room. They perhaps are the ones who were raised from the dead at the time of Jesus? death (Matt. 27:51?53).

If so, these 24 elders who ascended to heaven with Jesus become representatives of humanity, to witness the fairness in God?s actions in the realization of the plan of salvation. In Revelation 5:9, the 24 elders, along with the four living creatures (vs. 8), fall down in worship before the Lamb who was slain and yet lives. Together, they sing a new song, extolling the Lamb as the One who is worthy, because: ? ?You were slain and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and have made us kings and priests to our God; and we shall reign on the earth? ? (Rev. 5:8?10, NKJV)."

Now here is something that makes sense on the four living creatures but I need to study it further...

"?Four living creatures.? Ezekiel 1?10 reveals that God has a movable throne. He comes riding on a
chariot, sitting upon His throne, made portable by the wheels of the four living creatures. These
creatures are similar, if not the same, as the creatures found in Revelation 4.
The throne is currently in the Holy Place, prepared for the arrival of Jesus in the heavenly sanctuary. "
https://camelbackchurch.net/site/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Revelation_4-7.pdf

Concerning the 24 elders. I realize the popular view is that they are humans, but I just don't feel real comfortable with it.

1. I don't think the Greek is any different for the word "us" in the Alexandrian Text or the Received text. It's "hemus", which is usually translated "us, we, us-ward, our". The Greek pronoun "aut?s, ow-tos" is far more flexable and could be "them, their, they, him, her, myself, themself" etc. But it is not the word used.

2. Yes, all the hosts of heaven praise God! That is all through the bible. And obviously the four living creatures are full of praise for God. But, they are heavenly creatures, not human.
Yet they also sing "a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred...

3. The article in above post said, "The description of the elders in Revelation 4:4 shows that they are not angelic beings. But that is a supposition, not a fact statement.
The title "elders" in the Bible always is used for humans.
Well yes, elder in the Bible generally means an older man with leadership responsibilities. Shepherds. overseers. teachers, leaders of God's people.
We can ask: are these 24 elders representing the priestly organization that was on earth. Or were the priestly organization on earth following something that was in heaven?

4. The elders sit on thrones showing they share governing powers with God. But other rulers under God, from other planets are also governing with God.


5. They wear white robes. Other heavenly beings also wear white robes. -- white linen garments.

6. They have crowns. Victory crowns. Ellen White calls them crowns of immortal glory.

All the points are not exclusive to humans, though the redeem will receive white robes, crowns and sit on thrones with Jesus, yet there is no inspired word that confirms the 24 elders are raised saints.

7. Ellen White never confirmed the idea that the 24 elders are resurrected saints.

So there's no real bases to get dogmatic about who these 24 elders are -- the point is that all heaven is interested in our salvation and in the plan of redemption, our focus and prayers are to be on Christ, and worship Him with the devotion of these heavenly beings.
.
Sometimes I think EGW never endorsed that position of 24 human priests in heaven, because it could open the door to a Catholic notion of praying to the saints asking them to intercede for us? In their role in heaven they 24 elders do seem to be in an intercessory work with their censers offering prayers of the saints. Believing they are human could led to the Catholic practices.

And this gives a explanation, although not a Adventist source it makes sense and Adventist also repeat it, of the faces of the four living creature...

"Meaning of the FOUR FACES of the FOUR living creatures

The four living creatures in Rev 4: 6, 8 are not often referred to as angels although they have characteristics of angels. They are super-beings identified with the throne of God, and once with the tree of life in Eden (3: 24). They appeared in Ezekiel's vision of the throne of God as Cherubims (Ezekiel 1:5-11, 15, 20; 10:12, 14-15). Isaiah identified them as Seraphim (Is 6: 2-3). Their roles look like guardians of the throne, and more importantly, proclaiming the holiness of God (Is 6: 3; Rev 4: 8). Of particular interest are their faces as described by Ezekiel and John (lion, ox, man, and flying eagle). What is the meaning of the faces?

First, look at the throne through the lens of Semitic socio-religious and political traditions. Contextually, the vision of these beings occurred in the heavenly sanctuary. So, we won't look any farther. An allusion is made to Moses when he was instructed to make figures of cherubims to spread their wings over the mercy seat (Ex 25: 18-22; cf. 1 Kgs 6). Not so much information is given about their appearance.


Second, the four faces are familiar among Jews. According to Number 2; 10: 11-25, the encampment of Israel were divided into FOUR divisions "under their banner (Hebrew "degel")" around the TABERNACLE.
Commentaries explain the standards or banners this way:
(The degas (Hebrew), "standard," was the large field sign that belonged to each division of three tribes, and was also the banner of the tribe at the head of that division. The oth, "ensign," was the small flag or banner that was carried at the head of each tribe and of each subdivision of a tribe. (Freeman, J. M., & Chadwick, H. J. (1998). Manners & customs of the Bible (p. 163). North Brunswick, NJ: Bridge-Logos Publishers.)

"The Hebrew term used here, oth (also meaning "sign"), likely refers to an insignia, perhaps comparable to a family crest, unique to each tribe. Since Moses characterizes each tribe in a particular fashion (Deut 33), it is likely that certain symbols were associated with each individual group." (Barry, J. D., Mangum, D., Brown, D. R., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Ritzema, E., ? Bomar, D. (2012, 2016). Faithlife Study Bible (Nu 2:2). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.)

"Standards were visible signs of a certain recognized form for directing the movements of large bodies of people. As the Israelites were commanded to encamp
'each by his own standard, with the ensign of their father's house,"
the direction has been considered as implying that they possessed three varieties:
(1) the great tribal standards, which served as rallying points for the twelve large clans of the people; (2) the standards of the subdivided portions; and,
(3) those of families or houses.?
(Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 95). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.)

The Four divisions and their totemic symbols are the following:
Judah on the East (Lion)-Isachar, Zebulon
Reuben on the South (Man)-Simeon, Gad
Ephraim on the West (Ox)-Manaseh, Benjamin
Dan on the North (Flying eagle holding a serpent)-Asher, Naphtali (Jewish tradition says the emblem of Dan was changed from a snake to a flying eagle)

The concept of the encampment of Israel around the TABERNACLE parallels the FOUR living creatures AROUND THE THRONE. We are here given the reason why the four living beings worship God and proclaim His holiness in the same manner Israel was to worship God and to be holy to Him (Lev 11: 44, 45; 19: 19: 2; 20: 26). But their significance is deeper than that. The faces of the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders are used symbolically to highlight the Judeo-Christian concept of the redeemed in the book of Revelation: the 144,000 (Jewish) and the multitude from all nations (Gentile nations). See my article ?The recipients of the book of Revelation? for further clarification.

Mathew Henry makes allusion of the encampment to the preaching of the gospel thus: "These were of use for the distinction of tribes and families, and the gathering and keeping of them together, in allusion to which the preaching of the gospel is said to lift up an ensign, to which the Gentiles shall seek, and by which they shall pitch, Isa. 11:10, 12."
(Henry, M. (1994). Matthew Henry?s commentary on the whole Bible: complete and unabridged in one volume (p. 188). Peabody: Hendrickson.)" ...

https://sparksrevelation.wordpress....four-faces-of-the-four-living-creatures/

Thank you for sharing!!! From this information I understand the 4 living creatures to represent God's people either in exodus (delivered from Egypt but not yet home) and in exile. We are in exile and exodus heading home but not home yet.

I see the tradition of just pointing to people who came to Heaven as just a "selfie" and not the message of what God is trying to tell us.

Jesus is up in heaven. God is up in heaven. We don't have them dwelling among us in the sanctuary/temple or the person of Jesus on the earth. What Revelation 4 and 5 are teaching us is that the priests have been replaced with the 24 elders. Historically, the Sanhedrin that was involved with the passion of our Lord appears to be 23 Sadducee priests plus the high priest for a total of 24 Sadducee priests. The job of the priests were to tell the truth about Jesus. However, these 24 people decided to give a false witness about who Jesus was. This is their heavenly counterparts who do indeed give the truth about Jesus and who minister from the throne in heaven to the 4 living creatures; Us, God's people in exodus on the earth.

The word "Sanhedrin" is a Greek term, scholars had wondered what the Aramaic or Hebrew word was. Archaeology discovered that it is "Elders"

Thus instead of a selfie saying "Wish you were here" postcard from heaven, John was telling us that there is a priesthood of 24 elders who quite literally brings communication from heaven to the four living creatures. This is the living word of God. The testimony of the 12 tribes and the testimony of the 12 apostles. The true priesthood, the true Sanhedrin, brining the truth about Jesus and informing God's people for what we need for specific times in history, the idea of present truth and from where we will learn present truth.