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Re: Beginnings of history after the flood
[Re: dedication]
#196240
08/16/23 07:03 PM
08/16/23 07:03 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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I asked you to notice that Scripture says Asshur went out and built Nineveh before it lists the sons of Shem. In fact it does so 10 or 11 verses before it lists the sons of Shem. Why would it do that? It is speaking to the life of Nimrod in that passage Yes, it does do that. But Asshur was born a generation before Nimrod. And when Nimrod was making life difficult in Shinar and pulling all his contempories into the rebellion , Asshur took his family and left. It's all part of Nimrod's story -- showing not everyone agreed and joined him. Asshur took his family and left to start up his own country It's not that I have antipathy towards his book itself, it has its place, a lot of pagan things have crept into Christianity-- I'll take ideas from it and evaluate them against other sources. It's probably more when people turn it into absolute gospel truth that I have a problem, it is NOT an inspired authority on history or a guide for salvation or ultimate truth. It's just a book with one view. One can agree with some of it and disagree with some of it. But when all other ideas and evidences on history are condemned and only his upheld as ultimate truth, it becomes a problem. When have I ever said Hislop is inspired? I have asked you if Doug Batchelor is inspired and you didn't answer me. Your reasoning was that the devil uses non inspired sources to harm God's cause yet I've seen people mocking Doug for his Biblical views in the comments on line in the comments on his evangelistic series. I also see people mocking those who uphold Biblical truths on line. In fact I was just banned from a forum for upholding the love of God. The devil mocks everything he can to hurt God's cause, including using the hypcrites inside the church. So I really don't understand your attitude towards Hislop. He uses very strong reasoning in his conclusions and God has used people like him throughout history. Luther, Calvin, Knox, Melancthon and Zwingli were all used very powerfully by God, yet they were not inspired, to counteract the very things Hislop exposes. Ellen White quotes a non inspired source very liberally in The Great Controversy.
Last edited by Garywk; 08/16/23 07:05 PM.
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Re: Beginnings of history after the flood
[Re: dedication]
#196244
08/16/23 11:06 PM
08/16/23 11:06 PM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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By "not inspired" I mean not infallible, not a prophet --
I enjoy delving into history, but seems this isn't delving into history but trying to promote a book and all it's reasonings. I really don't want to argue over Hislop. It's just a book, its on the right trend, but there are also some questions. You think it's the best! You seem to think that by questioning some of his conclusions, I'm mocking him, and promoting paganism, and so it seems this conversation is spiraling down into bad feelings.
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Re: Beginnings of history after the flood
[Re: dedication]
#196245
08/16/23 11:26 PM
08/16/23 11:26 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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Here is a link that agrees with your position. https://www.equip.org/articles/the-two-babylons/ Notice what he uses for references to discount Hislop's book.
[quote]The subtitle for Hislop?s book is ?The Papal Worship Proved to Be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife.? Yet when I went to refer?ence works such as the Encyclopedia Britannica, The Americana, The Jewish Encyclopedia, The Catholic Encyclopedia, The Worldbook Encyclopedia ? carefully reading their articles on ?Nimrod? and ?Semiramis? ? not one said anything about Nimrod and Semiramis being husband and wife. They did not even live in the same century. Nor is there any basis for Semiramis being the mother of Tammuz. I realized these ideas were all Hislop?s inventions. Aren't encyclopedias great resources for researching spiritual subjects?
Last edited by Garywk; 08/16/23 11:27 PM.
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Re: Beginnings of history after the flood
[Re: dedication]
#196246
08/16/23 11:34 PM
08/16/23 11:34 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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By "not inspired" I mean not infallible, not a prophet --
I enjoy delving into history, but seems this isn't delving into history but trying to promote a book and all it's reasonings. I really don't want to argue over Hislop. It's just a book, its on the right trend, but there are also some questions. You think it's the best! You seem to think that by questioning some of his conclusions, I'm mocking him, and promoting paganism, and so it seems this conversation is spiraling down into bad feelings.
Not even. Differences in opinion are what makes the world go round. I just want to keep on addressing your misunderstandings as I find Hislop to be convincing.
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Re: Beginnings of history after the flood
[Re: dedication]
#196247
08/17/23 11:07 AM
08/17/23 11:07 AM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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I found an interesting text on Nimrod and Assyria. Mic 5:6? And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.? The implication of this is clearly that Nimrod is very closely tied to Assyria. I have also run across the statement that Hamites founded Assyria.
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Re: Beginnings of history after the flood
[Re: dedication]
#196248
08/17/23 02:20 PM
08/17/23 02:20 PM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Let's look at that quote in its context MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting. 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time [that] she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. 5:5 And this [king] shall be the peace, when the Assyrian (Asshur) shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. 5:6 And they shall waste (or feed) the land of Assyria (Asshur) with the sword, AND the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver [us] from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. 5:7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. 5:8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people MICAH contemporary prophet with Isaiah, prophecying during the reign of Hezekiah in Judah. The kingdom of David (the shepherd from Bethlehem, who became king of all Israel), had been divided. The crown would soon depart from both kingdoms. But a king (the Messiah) would arise from Bethlehem filled with the majesty of the name of the LORD. He, like David would come from Bethlehem and when HE takes the throne and crown it will be forever! The Assyrians (Asshur) would conquer the northern kingdom. And enter the land of Judah (they actually conquered all the cities in Judah EXCEPT Jerusalem. For God gave them peace -- Judah would raise up seven shepherds (seven more kings would reign) and eight more prophets would arise, before they too would lose their crown. Asshur will be driven back to his borders (God miraculously delivered Jerusalem when it was surrounded by Assyrian armies) and fed to the sword in his own territory. (see 2Kings 19) Remember Assyria, when the prophecy is given, is the world power. What nation will conquer Assyria by the sword? Is it not the nation from the land of Nimrod who will stand at the gates of Assyria with the sword, and then tread into the boarders of Judea. (2Kings 20:17) The remnant of Israel would be scattered amongst many people. For "now vs 3, when the prophecy was spoken" God would give them up (due to their rebellious spirit) but the Messiah would come, they were not left without hope. So -- seems this prophecy isn't talking about ONLY about the Assyrians. AND land of Nimrod --
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Re: Beginnings of history after the flood
[Re: dedication]
#196250
08/17/23 02:42 PM
08/17/23 02:42 PM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
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You will find other websites that will say that as well -- doesn't mean it is true Both sides are presented on the internet.
The problem is most people START from the wrong premise -- They don't realize PREFLOOD religion was being brought back. So they have to attribute everything to post flood things and add that to the Bible story.
People can translate ASSHUR right out of the Bible and make it read as they see fit.
But at least that website does mention that the land belonged to Asshur, but was taken over by Nimrod's aggressive greed to dominate the world, which might of happened, for the area was repeatedly invaded over the years. And yes Nimrod's empire was short lived. And it's still the land of Asshur according to the Biblical records .
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Re: Beginnings of history after the flood
[Re: dedication]
#196251
08/17/23 02:44 PM
08/17/23 02:44 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting. 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time [that] she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. 5:5 And this [king] shall be the peace, when the Assyrian (Asshur) shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. 5:6 And they shall waste (or feed) the land of Assyria (Asshur) with the sword, AND the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver [us] from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. 5:7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. 5:8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people MICAH contemporary prophet with Isaiah, prophecying during the reign of Hezekiah in Judah. The kingdom of David (the shepherd from Bethlehem, who became king of all Israel), had been divided. The crown would soon depart from both kingdoms. But a king (the Messiah) would arise from Bethlehem filled with the majesty of the name of the LORD. He, like David would come from Bethlehem and when HE takes the throne and crown it will be forever! The Assyrians (Asshur) would conquer the northern kingdom. And enter the land of Judah (they actually conquered all the cities in Judah EXCEPT Jerusalem. For God gave them peace -- Judah would raise up seven shepherds (seven more kings would reign) and eight more prophets would arise, before they too would lose their crown. Asshur will be driven back to his borders (God miraculously delivered Jerusalem when it was surrounded by Assyrian armies) and fed to the sword in his own territory. (see 2Kings 19) Remember Assyria, when the prophecy is given, is the world power. What nation will conquer Assyria by the sword? Is it not the nation from the land of Nimrod who will stand at the gates of Assyria with the sword, and then tread into the boarders of Judea. (2Kings 20:17) The remnant of Israel would be scattered amongst many people. For "now" God would give them up (due to their rebellious spirit) but the Messiah would come, they were not left without hope. So -- seems this prophecy isn't talking about ONLY about the Assyrians. AND land of Nimrod -- You must think I am very scripturally ignorant to think I don't know Micah's prophecy is a prophecy of Christ and that I don't know what is happening with the kingdom of Judah. That's actually insulting. Micah actually ties Nimrod to Assyria. Mic 5:6? And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.? Who will waste the land of Assyria and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof? Not another nation. This is a spiritual prophecy.of Jesus. This is spiritual warfare and these type prophecies may last until the end of time for their fulfillment for it is at the end of time that Nimrod, in the person of the devil, will be overthrown.
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