What you're advocating is a logical fallacy. Women can go to other women for spiritual advice whether the other woman is ordained or not. I know of pastors who I would never approach for any kind of advice as I do not trust them. The same goes for some elders in the church.

I have more respect for some women's spiritual acumen than I have for a lot of men's but that doesn't override the plain reading of scripture.

What is ordination?
It's only "logical fallacy" because ordination has been made the sign of authority.
Where does the bible say ordination is the sign of authority?

Why is it no longer a sign of being called for a spiritual service for the Lord.

I see. I disagree that ordination of women has been made a sign of authority by mankind.



The word bishop comes from a Greek word meaning an overseer of a church or a group of churches. In other words a pastor.

I'll stick with scripture. You can do as you please.

By casting your own vote first.

First I didn't say women's ordination has been made a sign of authority.
I said ordination [itself] has been made a sign of authority, no longer a sign of setting apart and blessing people to do spiritual work for the Lord.

I think I explained that the "OVERSEER" being a man is the better plan.
But the "overseer" was not really the same as a pastor or "shepherd".
In the early church each region had a "bishop". Whenever the church councils met, these bishops would meet and discuss the matters of the church as a whole. Their job was to mentor and guide the leaders (men and women) in the churches under their care.

The text you quote does not say only bishops can be ordained (set aside and blessed to preform a spiritual work or ministry) It's not speaking of ordination at all.

The way things are now set up, I'm afraid the answer is yes.

Since ordination has been turned into a sign of authority and is no longer a sign that church is setting apart and blessing men and women for various different spiritual leadership positions, many women see this as a belittling of their roles in church leadership and thus have started to fight for equal treatment.
It is now no longer so much a desire to obtain the blessing of the church, but a fight for equality.

It's the nature of things when there is a fight for equality, the focus will always find some more "fights" to wage under the banner of equality, it doesn't stop.
I think we have accepted the Catholic definition for "ordination" and now find ourselves in a fight for "equal right" .
The Catholic definition sets the "ordained" up on a pedestal in a different class from the regular members.

If the church had given the same honor and blessings to other spiritual leaders who dedicated their lives to a specific mission and ordained in the Biblical sense, and not made the "ordained minister" the only one blessed and "set apart" and honored. We may have avoided this "equality" fight, and given other roles the blessings they deserved.

The answer, in my opinion is not to make women presidents and top leaders in the church but to re-evaluate the meaning of ordination.

Didn't you just say this in your next post?



I'm afraid you're being dishonest with me again.

No, I am not being dishonest I am stating a very honest opinion.
Either you are not reading the whole thought, or you totally misunderstand.


The issue of Women's ordination hasn't made ordination a sign of authority.
Ordination has been made a sign of authority long before the women's ordination issue was agitated.
The catholic meaning for ordination has been accepted, the biblical meaning of ordination rejected.

But because ordination was turned into a sign of authority it has now however, become a "fight for equality" which is a different issue.

What does BIBLICAL ORDINATION mean?
Why quote the qualifications for a bishop which says nothing about ordination, to prove ordination?
It doesn't say ordination is a qualification for a bishop.
It doesn't say only bishops may be ordained.

Why shy away from that question?
IIt has not really been addressed by the church.

Women's ordination hasn't made ordination a sign of authority.
Ordination has been made a sign of authority long before the women's ordination issue was agitated.
The catholic meaning for ordination has been accepted, the biblical meaning of ordination rejected.


Ellen White tried to show a better way suggesting other spiritual leaders, like deaconess should be ordained, but that all fell by the wayside.
The Bible ordains missionaries.
We tried to implement it in our church. Several young people going as student missionaries were asked to come up front and the spiritual leaders of the church knelt around them with hand on their shoulder or head and prayed for their safety, spiritual strength and a close walking with God ...basically ordaining them for this task.


But the church has made ordination a sign of legal authority (an ordained person can do legal marriages etc.etc etc) a non-ordained person can still preach, teach, be a missionary, lead out in outreach programs, all of course without a special blessing from the church. So what is ordination? Is it the Biblical sign that the church asks God's blessing and gives their support to a person's spiritual ministry?

Yes, ordination is now basically understood as being restricted to Ordination of bishops. Why else would a list of qualifications for bishops be used to somehow show the meaning of ordination?
Of course the law of the land has had their hand in that as well. But that's not the Biblical definition of ordination.
So what is the BIBLICAL definition of ordination?

The Biblical sign of ordination to me is how effective/powerful a person's ministry is. But the church has been given the task of ordaining people. To do that we have to follow the closest instructions given us and the bishops qualifications, along with the deacon's, are the best we have.

I don't see ordination as being a big deal. I would far rather have the signet of God than that of man for if our lives have God's signet success in our witness will be very apparent. We will be bringing people to Jesus. The joy of that is so great any monetary rewards from man's signet pale in comparison. I can't see any sign of them being equal in value.

It's for this reason I've never seen any reason for the big brouhaha over women's ordination. The joy coming from the presence of God in our lives far outweighs money.

I would also point out what Paul said to Titus about ordination. I got to thinking about this more and started doing searches on line, in the SOP, and in the Bible. This quote actually came from what Ellen White said in Testimonies volume 5 page 617 on ordination