I always thought that as Adventist we had a good grasp of the final battle between Satan and his followers in their struggle against God which would be on Earth right at the end. The Battle of Armageddon, was in the future and all Adventist believed it was still to come, and it would become very real at the Second Coming and involved the beast and the nations of the world who will join the devil on one side, while Jesus will be on the other. Seems pretty straightforward, but there was a surprising struggle in the church on this issue which was not resolved and was stopped in a surprising manner. Here is the article on our understanding of this which has itself been a battle..

"The history of the development of this teaching has been traced in considerable detail in a work entitled "Development of Seventh-day Adventist Teaching on Ar?mageddon." * In this article the material has been reduced to present a general sweep of the development of this teaching without submitting documented proof for the conclusions arrived at.

FOUR PERIODS
The development of our teaching on Ar?mageddon and the king of the north, which has usually been associated with it, may be considered as being divided roughly into four periods with three transition pe?riods between.

During the first period, which extended from about 1846 to about 1871, Seventh-day Adventists understood the Papacy to be the king of the north, and Armageddon was the climactic struggle between the forces of Christ and those of Satan at the Second Advent.

The second period began about 1871 and ended about 1903. In 1871 the inter?pretation was introduced that Turkey, not the Papacy, was the king of the north, and Armageddon, which was now linked with it, was held to be a struggle of the nations gathered in Palestine against Christ under the seventh plague. The years between 1871 and 1881 were transition years.

The third period began about 1903 and ended about 1952. The main difference be?tween this period and the one that pre?ceded it was that Armageddon was held to be a gigantic military engagement among the nations of the world gathered in Pales?tine. Christ's part in this view of Arma?geddon was largely minimized. The years from about 1886 to about 1912 were transi?tion years.

The fourth period began about 1952 and continues to the present. During this pe?riod there has been a partial return to many of the basic positions of the first pe?riod. The Papacy is generally held to be the king of the north, and Armageddon is understood to be primarily the climactic struggle between the forces of Christ and those of Satan at the end of time. The years between about 1924 and 1952 were transi?tion years.,,,"

Seems like it started out with the correct view then the world events happening at the time were interjected, as we can see happening in many sermons today, and the original view gets blurred to say the least. So lets continue with the article..

"Millerism was composed largely of American Protestants; hence, it is not sur?prising that on matters of lesser impor?tance the Millerites simply adopted the prevailing Protestant view of the matter. Armageddon was a subject of lesser impor?tance. Only as it was believed to have some bearing on the Second Advent was it con?sidered at all.

The prevailing Protestant view of the seven last plagues of Revelation 16 was that five of them had already fallen, the sixth was in the process of fulfillment, and only the seventh was still in the future. As for the symbols of Revelation 16:12-16, the great majority of Protestant expositors held that the Euphrates represented Tur?key or Mohammedanism. There was little unanimity of opinion on the interpreta?tion of the other symbols of this passage.

In harmony with the prevailing Protes?tant view of Revelation 16, William Mil?ler, leader of the movement that bore his name, taught prior to 1840 that five of the plagues had fallen, the sixth was in the process of being poured out, and the sev?enth would be poured out about 1840.

Miller had little to say about the kings of the East. As for the remaining symbols of Revelation 16:12-16, Miller taught that when the Euphrates (the Turkish power) was dried up (ceased to exist) three wicked political principles (the three unclean spirits) would go forth from the kings of the earth (the dragon), the Papacy (the beast), and Mohammedanism (the false prophet) to gather all nations and all peo?ple (the kings of the earth and of the whole world) to Armageddon. Armaged?don would involve both political and reli?gious strife and would be fought mainly in the United States. Miller appears to have believed that while it was going on, Christ would come, vanquish His enemies, and separate the wicked from the just.

Miller did not relate the prophecy of Revelation 16:12-16 to the prophecy of Daniel 11:45 about the end of the king of the north, because he understood the king of the north to be the Papacy; whereas, the Euphrates of Revelation 16 was the Turkish power.

Miller changed his view of Armageddon at least twice: once in 1840 and again in 1844. However, most of Miller's followers seem to have held his original view. The reason for this appears to have been that it received more publicity than his later views.

However, not all of the Millerites fol?lowed Miller on his interpretation of Reve?lation 16. Chief among those who differed with him was Josiah Litch. Litch held that all of the seven last plagues would be poured out after the Second Advent. He believed that at the Second Coming the saints would be taken to the sea of glass where Christ would organize His kingdom. While this was going on, the seven last plagues would be falling on the wicked. Under the sixth plague the Euphrates would be literally dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the Eastern world (the kings of the East). Following this the dev?il's armies (the kings of the earth and of the whole world) would be gathered in Jerusalem and Palestine by the three un?clean spirits?proceding from Mohammed?anism (the dragon), popery (the beast), and infidelity (the false prophet)?for the purpose of battling against the King of kings and Lord of lords. At this point Christ would come with all His saints to drive out the wicked from Jerusalem.

When October 22, 1844, passed and Christ did not return as the Millerites ex?pected, the movement broke up into sev?eral fragments. One of the smaller frag?ments later developed into the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

The question of Armageddon was not one of prime concern to the emerging Sev?enth-day Adventist leaders; however, the timing of the plagues was. Early in 1846, probably as a result of the visions of Ellen Harmon, James White adopted the view that all of the seven last plagues were in the future but before the Second Advent. This view differed markedly from the views held by Miller and Litch. Seventh-day Adventists have held to this view through the years regardless of what their particular views on Armageddon and the king of the north have been..."

Now something happens which throws the Adventist view into turmoil which is very interesting...

"In March, 1848, an event occurred that was destined to influence our teaching on Armageddon. This was the rise of modern Spiritualism in Hydesville, New York. About a year after Spiritualism made its modern debut, Ellen White was shown in vision that the mysterious rappings in New York were of Satanic origin and that they would become more and more common Not long after this, George W. Holt, a for?mer Millerite minister from Connecticut who had become a Seventh-day Adventist, identified the spirits of Spiritualism as be?ing the spirits of devils of Revelation 16: 13-16.

But then the question arose: If the spir?its of Spiritualism are now fulfilling the events of the sixth plague, how can the plagues be said to be all in the future? Uriah Smith, then a young man associated with the publication of the Review and Herald, gave the answer that was to be?come our standard answer to this question. He declared that the present work of Spir?itualism is a preparatory work, that before the spirits of devils can have such absolute power over the wicked as to induce them to fight against God, they must first win their way among the nations.

The Early Period
In the earliest years of our movement most Seventh-day Adventists apparently held that the Euphrates of Revelation 16: 12 referred to the literal river by that name. They apparently believed that that river would be literally dried up at the time of the sixth plague. This, of course, was Litch's view. In 1857 Uriah Smith set forth the view that the Euphrates repre?sents the country through which it flows, at that time the Turkish Empire. This view seems soon to have been accepted by most, if not all, Seventh-day Adventists. He also introduced at this time the view that the nations would assemble in Palestine under the sixth plague over possession of the Holy Land, but he does not seem to have been followed in this particular view by all Seventh-day Adventists at this time.

As for the other teachings related to Ar?mageddon and the king of the north, there seems to have been a general unanimity of opinion during the early period. Thus, vir?tually all Seventh-day Adventists were agreed that the dragon represented pagan?ism; the beast, Catholicism; the false prophet, apostate Protestantism. The bat?tle of that great day of God Almighty, or Armageddon, was held to be the culminat?ing clash between the forces of good and evil, or Christ and Satan, at the Second Coming. With regard to the identity of the king of the north, there was general agree?ment that it represented the Papacy.

The First Transition
In 1867 Uriah Smith's book, Thoughts, Critical and Practical, on the Book of Rev?elation, was published. This book popu?larized among Seventh-day Adventists the view of Armageddon Smith had first set forth in 1857. Early in 1869 Smith began a series of articles in the Review and Herald that eventually became the book Thoughts, Critical and Practical, on the Book of Daniel. Late in 1870 and early in 1871, while Smith was evidently studying and preparing his articles on the eleventh chapter of Daniel, he began to show a cer?tain ambivalence respecting his identifica?tion of the last power of that chapter, the king of the north. His writings reveal un?certainty as to whether this power is the Papacy, as he had formerly held, or Tur?key. From this time on Smith began, as he says, to "look for significant events in that quarter," and to make predictions to the effect that Turkey's end was imminent. Along with this he taught that when Tur?key came to its end Michael would stand up; that is, probation would close, and soon after this Christ would come.

These predictions disturbed James White. It appears that having gone through the disappointment in 1844, he was cautious on the matter of making de?tailed predictions of coming events based on unfulfilled prophecy, and urged others to be cautious also. When Smith continued to make predictions concerning Turkey's imminent end, a clash between the two leaders became inevitable.

Clash Over the King of the North
In 1877 war broke out between Turkey and Russia. Late that summer Smith preached on the Eastern question at a camp meeting which James and Ellen White attended. Perhaps as a result of this sermon James White wrote an editorial in the November 15, 1877, issue of the Signs of the Times (reprinted in the Review and Herald of November 27, 1877), in which he again urged caution on the part of those who were showing such positiveness regarding the Eastern question. But Smith continued to make predictions concerning the nearness of Turkey's end, and in June, 1878, went so far as to express the opinion that "we have reached the preliminary movements of the great battle of Armaged?don" (Review and Herald, June 6, 1878, p. 180). The inevitable clash between the two leaders came during the camp meeting that preceded the 1878 General Confer?ence held in Battle Creek, Michigan.

According to witnesses present at the camp meeting, Uriah Smith spoke at one of the early meetings on the Eastern ques?tion and again expressed the opinion that the Russo-Turkish war then in progress might develop into Armageddon. When Smith finished his discourse, James White spoke for seventy minutes, during which time he publicly rebutted Smith's view.

The essence of White's argument was as follows: If Daniel 2, 7, and 8 end with the destruction of pagan-papal Rome, and the first part of Daniel 11 recapitulates chap?ters 2, 7, and 8, then the last power of Dan?iel 11 must be pagan-papal Rome, not Turkey.

The first part of White's rebuttal ap?peared in the Review and Herald of Oc?tober 3, 1878, and was to have been con?tinued, but it stopped right there. Why? William C. White, son of James and Ellen White, relates that a day or two after the meeting at which Smith and White spoke, Ellen White was given a vision showing that her husband erred in publicly disa?greeing with Smith. After coming out of vision, she related to her husband what she had been shown. James White accepted the rebuke and discontinued his series of articles. In rebuking her husband, Mrs. White did not attempt to resolve the ques?tion of the identity of the king of the north. Indeed, the question is not settled in any way in her writings." .... https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1967/11/what-adventists-have-taught-on-armageddon

At this point the Ministry Magazine says that it is to be "continue" but from memory I think we find that Ellen White warned of the damage it would do to fight over it, let me see if I can find more..

I found the next article that was the "to be continued" but it doesnt include the reason why Ellen White shut down the struggle over the issue. Here is the relevant part.

"HE SMITH PERIOD
When James White died, in 1881, Smith's views on Armageddon and the king of the north, which were already ascendant, con?tinued to be the standard Seventh-day Ad?ventist views on these teachings. Virtually all our writers from about 1871 to the 1940's built on Smith's premises that Tur?key is the king of the north and that the nations would be gathered in Palestine for the battle of Armageddon. This does not mean, however, that the Smith period ex?tended from 1871 to the 1940's. Smith al?ways held that the nations would simply gather in Palestine during the sixth plague and that Armageddon?a battle between Christ and the forces of evil?would not be fought until the seventh plague. Smith did not teach that Armageddon would be a great military conflict in Palestine. He did teach that Turkey would come to its end in an international war in Palestine, but this war, he believed, would be fought be?fore the close of probation. Thus, the Smith period may be said to have lasted until the view that Armageddon would in?volve a great international conflict in Pales?tine took root, about 1903.

THE SECOND TRANSITION PERIOD
During the last ten or fifteen years of the nineteenth century there was an increas?ing tendency for our writers on Armaged?don and the king of the north to stress the war in which Turkey comes to its end. However, with rare exception, they did not equate this war with Armageddon.

In 1903, the year Uriah Smith died, W. A. Spicer, at the time one of the editors of the Review and Herald and later Gen?eral Conference president, became the chief proponent of the view that Armaged?don involved a great international conflict in Palestine after the close of probation. This concept was not opposed, and was grad?ually accepted by most Seventh-day Advent?ists. By 1913 it had become the denomina?tional view.

Before proceeding to describe the third period of SDA teaching on Armageddon, it may be well to note a brief interlude.

THE JONES INTERLUDE
Alonzo T. Jones was the chief editor of the Review and Herald from 1897 to 1901. During this time he introduced the rather singular concept that the European na?tions and Japan, who were then endeavor?ing to partition China, and the United States, who was then becoming involved in the Philippines, were the kings of the east and that their way was being prepared by the partition of China for the coming bat?tle of Armageddon. Eventually Jones iden?tified these kings of the east as being the kings of the earth and of the whole world. This view did not endure, and made no permanent impression on our teachings. As soon as Uriah Smith resumed the chief edi?torship of the church paper in 1901, this view disappeared.

THE THIRD PERIOD
While Spicer taught that Armageddon was a great international military conflict centering in Palestine, he also taught that at its climax Christ would intervene from heaven at the Second Coming. He did not stress this latter aspect, however, and those who followed him in his view of a military Armageddon stressed it even less. During World War I and for several years after, it was almost completely forgotten.

When the first world war broke out, many statesmen and political analysts re?ferred to it as Armageddon. Seventh-day Adventist leaders unanimously rejected this identification and said so. But when Turkey entered the war late in 1914 and Lord Asquith, British Prime Minister, de?clared that Turkey had rung her own death knell, we began to preach that Tur?key's end was imminent and that the war then in progress would develop into Ar?mageddon. Indeed, it looked as if the pre?dictions we had been making for years were on the very verge of fulfillment, especially during the first part of 1917. The war was going badly for the Turks, a battle was shaping up around Jerusalem, and there was talk that the Turks planned to move their capital out of Constantinople.

But then Jerusalem was captured on De?cember 9, 1917, after a brief struggle, and it became evident that the Turks were not go?ing to be able to transfer their capital to that city in the foreseeable future. Less than a year later the armistice was signed by the Central Powers, but Turkey renewed the struggle, first under the sultan and then under the nationalists.

In October, 1922, the Ottoman Empire came to an end, but from its ashes emerged a vigorous and defiant Turkish Republic that fought on to victory and dictated the peace terms of the Treaty of Lausanne in the summer of 1923. Finally, early in March, 1924, Turkey abolished the caliphate, thereby disclaiming the spiritual leadership of Mohammedanism, which she had held for centuries.

THE THIRD TRANSITION PERIOD
This turn of events led some of our peo?ple to re-examine the position we then held that Turkey was the king of the north, and soon among a minority there was a re?vival of the view that the papacy was king of the north. The majority of Seventh-day Adventists, however, continued to hold the other view, but now the emphasis in our teaching was that Armageddon was a mili?tary struggle of the East against the West in Palestine, with Christ intervening at the climax. The emphasis on the East-West struggle was doubtless engendered by the-rising militancy of Japan, the awakening and turmoil in China during the 1920's, and the threat of Russian Communism dur?ing the same period. But as the political alignments that led to World War II began to form and consolidate during the mid-1930's, it became clear that the lines of cleavage between the world's great powers were not East versus West, but Axis versus Allies. Thus, it appears that more and more stress was placed on Christ's part in Ar?mageddon. Eventually some excluded a military conflict altogether and interpreted Armageddon as being the last great strug?gle between Christ and His followers and Satan and his followers. Discussions be?tween the proponents of these views dur?ing the 1940's and early 1950's were some?times heated, but gradually the so-called new view attracted more and more adher?ents, until with certain modifications it be?came the denomination's view about 1952.

THE FOURTH PERIOD
The view that has been held by most SDA's since 1952 is that Armageddon in?volves both a physical battle and a battle between the followers of Christ and Satan, but that the real issue is the great contro?versy between good and evil. Some of our people tend to stress the physical aspects of this view while others tend to stress the struggle between the forces of good and evil.

A careful analysis of these stresses reveals that those who hold them do not mean the same thing when they speak of "physical" battle. Those who stress the physical as?pects of Armageddon usually mean a great international military engagement in Pal?estine prior to or at the Second Advent; whereas, those who stress the conflict be?tween the forces of good and evil usually mean the slaughter of the wicked all over the earth by mutual fighting among them?selves after Christ appears in the clouds of heaven. " ... https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1967/12/what-adventists-have-taught-on-armageddon-and-the-king-of-the-north#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20Seventh%2Dday,Christ%20intervening%20at%20the%20climax.

Note what it says on the end which is relevant to us again today..
"..Because of the recent war in the Middle East there has been renewed interest among our people concerning our teachings on Armageddon and the king of the north. For this reason it is well for every Seventh-day Adventist to be aware of what We have taught on these subjects in the past, as well as what the Spirit of Prophecy has to say about them (see the Comprehensive Index to the Writings of Ellen G. White, vol. 1, "Armageddon" and "Eastern Question"). By so doing we shall gain a clearer view of the character of this struggle. This will help us to avoid some of the pitfalls that plagued our ancestors, and at the same time it will enable us to give relevance to our message...".

I will see if I can find what Ellen White has on this..

It appears that Ellen White thought it best to be silent on the issue as it could lead to "contention" which in my opinion it has..

"My husband had some ideas on some points differing from the views taken by his brethren. I
was shown that however true his views were, God did not call for him to put them in front
before his brethren and create differences of ideas. While he might hold these views subordinate
himself, once they are made public, minds would seize [upon them], and just because others
believed differently would make these differences the whole burden of the message, and get up
contention and variance."?Letter 37, 1887 (Manuscript Releases, vol. 15, pp. 20-22).

And others point to these statements..

"Let us confine our public efforts to the presentation of the important lines of truth on which we are united, and on which we have clear light." (1SM 167)

"Matters of vital importance have been plainly revealed in the Word of God. These subjects are worthy of our deepest thought. But we are not to search into matters on which God has been silent." (1SM 173)

But need context to see if those apply to this issue, but I believe Ellen White did not want the damage that could be cause by a difference of views on this question and which we can clearly see all the way to the present.

James White disagreed with Uriah Smith.
As you can see in three articles he wrote in the Review.

For the first 16 or so years the Adventist pioneers taught the king of the north was papal.
When Smith switched his view, James White held the early view, and did not accept Uriah Smith's bringing Turkey in as the last power great power to persecute and finally be destroyed. Why did Uriah Smith change from the early interpretation?



It wasn't just that one sermon that prompted James White to object. Uriah was already sharing his thoughts before that. But that sermon was being eagerly received by the audience and this troubled James White.
People seem to respond to "new light" when the news appears to support it. There was a literal war between Turkey and Russia and it was a tense time as the newspapers depicted the war.
Uriah's 1877 campmeeting sermon had something like 2000 people listening and the excitement was strong. People were stirred with the thought that Jesus was coming VERY soon. For James White to stand up and publicly argue with Uriah at the close of a sermon whose main emphasis had been the nearness of Christ's coming would not have had good results! It would have been a mistake.
So yes, Ellen White asked him to step back and not make a scene.
But does that mean she supported Uriah Smith's view on this issue?

We would be further ahead to simply study all EGW's writings on what she says about the last conflict of earth's history.
Does she ever describe Turkey in any of her depictions of the crises?
Does she ever urge the people to watch Turkey for the sign that Jesus is about to stand up?

And why would Turkey setting up their capital in Jerusalem have any bearing on people's eternal destiny?

Do the testimony's depictions of the last crises support or contradict Jame's interpretation?
Seems to me EGW is fully on the side of seeing the papal power in combination with the protestant powers linking together as the great power of the last days to persecute and come to it's final end.

If Uriah's position were truth -- and if she supported his view, why don't we see her writing at least several paragraphs in the Great Controversy, urging people to watch the Turks for the final "sign" the end is here?
Why, instead, does she have so much to say about the papal power and apostate protestants uniting to create the last crises?

Quotes on Armageddon

Very true, but could it be that Islam was created by the Church of Rome before they became 'the defender of the faith' so to say, as part of the deception as we see from some quarters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JjSVpLSfB8

And now we see them rising up and bringing a clash of nations.

I don't see how that is possible. The Turks are Muslims and spent hundreds of years fighting the Crusaders in the holy land.

Well as you can see they followed the same formula of the church at Rome, taking the pagan religions and syncretizing them, basically same with another name, all put into Islam along with Mary worship. And now the Pope brings them back together..
https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...g-religious-groups-top/story?id=76293879
https://backtojerusalem.com/one-world-religion-headquarters-set-to-open-next-year/

https://answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/mary-in-the-quran

It makes more sense to me what the Bible has to say.

The way I see this:
The Muslims are NOT the king of the North, they are the king of the South. They arose in Arabia in the 600's AD. They conquered all of Northern Africa (which is south of the Mediterrean). They have all the lands of the ancient king of the south. (Just because they took some from the king of the north does not change the fact)
Yes, the battles were between the crusaders and the Muslims. They were between the king of the north and south, with "the holy land" fluctuating between them.

The king of the North is Rome -- with all her allies (ie countries with a Christian heritage) .
All the other prophecies in Daniel and Revelation and EGW, point to the papal Rome and her allies as the last great coalition of the last crises.

The king of the south are Muslims who took over Egypt the chief country of the ancient king of the south. Yes, 800 years later they largely pushed back the king of the north when they conquered Constantinople in the 1400's but they didn't conquer the king of the north.

And yes, according to Daniel 11:40-45, in the end the king of the north over runs the king of the south, gets his hands on their wealth (oil?) gets most of them to "follow him". (in his steps)
There will be a "sort of" uniting. After all, the whole world will be following the "beast"! Right? Even a host of muslims.

And yes, the king of the north will set up some kind of a "sanctuary" tabernacle in the "holy" land. It's all being planned right under our noses.


We tend to ignore the "false prophet" in all this.
The false prophet is not the papacy, but works with the papacy.
The false prophet, in my opinion, is the prophetic interpretation we see in various shades, all over the Christian world today. It's hopes are centered on Jerusalem. It expects the Messiah.
I don't think this false prophecy would be pushed and supported the way it is, if there wasn't some supernatural power behind it.
People believe Christ will return to old Jerusalem and set up a millennial kingdom and rule the nations. The false prophet has deceived many into believing this will happen.
And it will APPEAR as if it is happening. The false Christ will come with magnificent splendor -- to old Jerusalem, and it will be an overwhelming deception. When the king of the north goes forth to destroy MANY, I won't be at all surprised if the false Christ was telling him this must be done in order to subdue the nations and bring them under the reign of the false Christ for the millennium.

BUT Daniel tells us in 12:1-- the true Messiah rises up and delivers His people.

Hmm, makes sense..

Dispensationalism has a lot, and I mean a lot, to do with the belief of Jesus setting up His kingdom in old Jerusalem. Many of them get very angry when you disagree with them or criticize Israel in the current war. I post on a dispensationalist forum and I've been temp banned several times for just disagreeing with them. Not being rude, just disagreeing with them. I posted there a lot before my laptop was bricked but usually only in the political forum and as we are pretty much agreed politically we got along fine. Now they hate me with a passion. They call anyone who disagrees with their scriptural beliefs a liar, especially if they think being Christlike to unbelievers and Christians who disagree with them is a must. Their beliefs are purely Satanic in nature.

But I think we can all agree that this battle will begin with the gathering at the sixth plague where we see the ?water? of the ?great river Euphrates? will dry up in order to prepare the way for the ?kings from the east.? Then we see coming out from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet ?three unclean spirits? which make signs to seduce the ?kings? of the ?whole world? and to gather them together at the place given as ?Armageddon? which will battle between heaven and earth, between Christ and Satan. A final effort by the part of the evil to incite the world to fight against God and wipe out and annihilate the people of God with what will end as a military attempt to face Jesus and the angels at the second coming. The sixth plague merely announces the preparation of the earthly powers or evil with the "spirits of devils" gathering the "kings of the earth", and the "whole world", for the actual battle of Armageddon.

Revelation 16:12-15
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Now begins the actual battle, as the battle itself ?will take place during the seventh plague which clearly is the Second Coming opening with God declaring "It is done". So the sixth and the seventh plagues are the two consecutive
stages in which Armageddon event will begin and the take place with a great and mighty earthquake that will rend the earth and we see ?noises and thunderings and lightning? as well as ?great hail? and then we have subsequent fall of Babylon the great. The devil knows it foretells his soon coming end is approaching, so strives to wipe out the saints, but Christ comes to help his remnant and deliver them from the oppression against them here on earth by Babylon and the earthly powers supporting her.

Revelation 16:17-21
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

We then in the next chapter, see the earthly powers supporting Babylon laid out for one prophetic hour, but they see the truth of Babylon on turn on her.

Revelation 17:12-18
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

In Revelation 18 Babylon is described in greater detail and the call made to come out of her, and the warning given that "God hath remembered her iniquities."
Revelation 18:1-5
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Then in Revelation 19 we see Christ as He comes to earth to fight the kings of the earth and the wicked of the world, and describes what the end is for those who have the mark of the beast, and the "beast" and "false prophet".
Revelation 19:14-21
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Then in Revelation 20 we see the sequence of what happens at the Second Coming with the saints it the graves brought up at the first resurrection and taken to heaven to be with Christ in His kingdom and "reign with him a thousand years."
Revelation 20:1-6
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And then we see the "dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" come out in the resurrection of damnation and they continue the attack as Satan deceives and they meet their end against the city of God, the New Jerusalem, in the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:7-10
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

A basic question in this is which of all the bible texts do we say describe Armageddon?
Or is armageddon just a general definition of all the "Great Controversy" events in the "time of the end?" both before and after probation?
But that can't be if, according to comments above, "armageddon starts in the sixth plague. By the sixth plague probation has already closed.

Daniel 11:40-45 I tend to believe describe things before probation closes. It's about events in the "time of the end" which is time since 1798 to the present.
Not till vs 45 and 12:1 do we reach the time when Christ steps in, the terrible time of trouble starts and the king of the north comes to his end and God's people are delivered.

Thus we can't really pull Daniel 11:40-45 texts to define Armageddon as there seem to still be people changing sides in those verse.

So if Armageddon doesn't start till the sixth plague, then not only is Daniel 11:40-44 not part of Armageddon, but neither is the whole implementation and testing of the mark of the beast.


If the battle of Armageddon happens after the plagues have begun and probation has closed, then everyone is set in their decision already .And no one will be deceived who hasn't already been deceived.
So any texts dealing with people still converting or rejecting truth, wouldn't be referring to Armageddon. That battle would only be the unleashing of the full Passionate power of those who have already chosen evil, allowing it to show it's full evil. It would be about God vindicating truth, destroying evil, and taking His redeemed home.

It's very possible that Islam was created by the Church of Rome, to subdue the eastern Christian churches that refused to acknowledge the primacy of the bishop of Rome. But that rather backfired on them. And I tend to lean on the interpretation that Islam is the "king of the south".
Neither the king of the north nor the king of the south in Daniel 11 were ever symbolic of truth vs error, but rather they are one type of error against another type of error.

However, in the battle of Armageddon, which according to the quotes compiled in a previous post, happens AFTER probation closes, the king of the north (papal armies) and the king of the south will not be enemies -- they will be on the same team. Daniel 11:40-44 only shows the process of force that unites those two kings in which the papacy gains the upper hand and control. They will unite against their common enemy, against the truth of the Living God!



All will be on one side or the other:

On one side is
"Every form of evil is to spring into intense activity. Evil angels unite their powers with evil men" Evil powers that have been strengthening for centuries. (1888,761)
Yet under one head--the papal power--the people will unite to oppose God in the person of His witnesses. This union is cemented by the great apostate.--7T 182 (1902).
Satan is already mustering his forces of evil, going forth "unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world," to gather them under his banner. He is preparing them for that great battle.

Rev. 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Why? Because they will see him as the "savior" from all the turmoil they previously experienced. "They receive power as kings one hour with the beast".
And
17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb,
And when they realize they have been deceived and aren't winning they will turn on the leaders they have chosen.. (see Rev. 17:15)

On the other side
Is the "Lamb" Jesus -- The King of kings and with Him are the called, chosen and faithful. Rev. 17:14 And all the armies of heaven (See Rev. 19:14,16)

Much like Hamas/Hezbollah and the UN, (Islam and the nations under the Papal influence) We shall soon see..