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Re: What are the seven kings of Rev. 17:10? [Re: Rick H] #198249
11/30/24 08:00 AM
11/30/24 08:00 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Revelation 11 is very hard to understand, but if one looks there are points in the timeline that are given in the other chapters of Daniel and Revelation which we can use in its interpretation.

Lets look at verse 9, '9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half,..'
Notice its refered to in verse 11, '11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them,...'

Now, these are tied to 'forty and two months' in verse 2, '2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.'
And to 'a thousand two hundred and threescore days' in verse 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Now these numbers are familiar to Adventist and Historicist interpreters as the same timeline in the 1260 years. The "time, times and half a time" (i.e. 1+2+0.5=3.5), "1,260 days" and "42 months" mentioned in Daniel and Revelation to be references to represent a period of 1260 years which occur seven times in scripture:

Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 13:5, "42 months".

Here is from the Sabbath School lesson.."The two witnesses represent the Bible ? both Old and New Testaments. The two cannot be separated. God?s people are called to proclaim the full Bible message to the world ? ?the whole counsel of God? (Acts 20:27, NKJV).

The witnesses are pictured as prophesying in sackcloth during the prophetic period of 1,260 days/years (A.D. 538-1798). Sackcloth is the garment of mourning (Gen. 37:34); it points to the difficult time when the truths of the Bible were buried, and covered over, by human traditions."...

So its talking about the 1260 years but then we get to what Adventist have picked up that happens at the end of the 1260 years other than 1798 wound of the Beast..

"Read Revelation 11:7-13. In your own words, describe what happened to the two witnesses at the end of the prophetic 1,260 days/years.
The beast that kills the two witnesses arises from the very abode of Satan. This killing of the witnesses applies historically to the atheistic attack on the Bible and the abolition of religion in connection with the events of the French Revolution. The antireligious system established in France possessed the moral degradation of Sodom, the atheistic arrogance of Egypt, and the rebelliousness of Jerusalem. What happened to Jesus in Jerusalem now happens to the Bible by this antireligious system.

The resurrection of the witnesses points to the great revival of interest in the Bible in the aftermath of the French Revolution, which resulted in the rise of the Second Advent movement with its restoration of Bible truth, the establishment of Bible societies, and the worldwide distribution of the Bible."...https://ssnet.org/blog/thursday-two-witnesses/

We need to carefully study and see how this came into Adventist thought...

Re: What are the seven kings of Rev. 17:10? [Re: Rick H] #198253
12/01/24 01:31 PM
12/01/24 01:31 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Quote
The witnesses are pictured as prophesying in sackcloth during the prophetic period of 1,260 days/years (A.D. 538-1798). Sackcloth is the garment of mourning (Gen. 37:34); it points to the difficult time when the truths of the Bible were buried, and covered over, by human traditions."...

So its talking about the 1260 years but then we get to what Adventist have picked up that happens at the end of the 1260 years other than 1798 wound of the Beast..

"Read Revelation 11:7-13. In your own words, describe what happened to the two witnesses at the end of the prophetic 1,260 days/years.
The beast that kills the two witnesses arises from the very abode of Satan. This killing of the witnesses applies historically to the atheistic attack on the Bible and the abolition of religion in connection with the events of the French Revolution. The antireligious system established in France possessed the moral degradation of Sodom, the atheistic arrogance of Egypt, and the rebelliousness of Jerusalem. What happened to Jesus in Jerusalem now happens to the Bible by this antireligious system.

The resurrection of the witnesses points to the great revival of interest in the Bible in the aftermath of the French Revolution, which resulted in the rise of the Second Advent movement with its restoration of Bible truth, the establishment of Bible societies, and the worldwide distribution of the Bible."...https://ssnet.org/blog/thursday-two-witnesses/

We need to carefully study and see how this came into Adventist thought...


Yes, that's how I understand those points as well.
In Revelation 11 we see --
The 1260 years depict the papal time when they held supremacy with their "double sword" of using politic powers to enforce their religious positions and persecuting people who followed a different belief. The Bible was largely and often vigorously withheld from the people, but it was still witnessing in "sackcloth".

As the 1260 years were about to end, just before the papal head received it's deadly wound (having it's power to persecute removed) another beast arises!

Yes the beast of Revelation 11:7 is the Bible destroying, antireligious, atheistic, immorality celebrating beast. It came forth manifesting it's true colors of terror for three and half days (three and half years) in the reign of terror in France. During those three and half years, it showed the world it's true nature, but it didn't go away. It just became more subtle.

Yes, the world was shocked ! Napoleon came along and restored a semblance of order in France, basically put in motion a complete change in Europe, writing a whole new code of law, replacing the Justinian's code of law that had been in place those 1260 years. Took the pope captive, but replaced the papacy two years later, with their political temporal power hugely curtailed.

Yes, interest in Biblical prophecy went way up! The Bible became very popular. Revivals swept the world, especially in America! During the years 1800 -1844 light from scripture was being poured out!


The Advent movement was born!!!
Here we move to Revelation 10.

The sealed book of Daniel was open!

The Divine Being announces that prophetic time had reached it's end!
The seventh trumpet would sound and complete the last events of salvation.
He encourages people to take the book and eat it!

They eat (studying the prophecies of Daniel) and it is so sweet.
They see the longest timelines all ending on or just before 1844
They are sure Jesus is coming in 1844.

It was sweet like the sweetest dessert, so very sweet!
BUT, how bitter the disappointment.
It's all there in Revelation 10!

They are told they must prophesy again.
The seven thunders are about the three angel's messages. But they were not understood while the scroll was still sweet in the people's mouths. It was only after the bitter disappointment that they realize they must prophesy again.
They must share the news about the sanctuary that has been trampled, the sanctuary measuring -- now that the 1260 years were over the judgement hour would begin at the end of the 2300 years, not the second coming, this was now opening to peoples understanding. Yes, the Seventh-day Advent movement is born.
(see MS 59, 1900). {7BC 971.8)






Re: What are the seven kings of Rev. 17:10? [Re: Rick H] #198255
12/02/24 12:30 AM
12/02/24 12:30 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,716
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Yes, following the French Revolution things really opened up for the Bible truths to be spread across the world! And yes, the Advent movement came into being!
But the issue concerning the beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit in Rev. 11:7 also needs to be understood in it's role in the last days.


We find this important question in the book Great Controversy
Quote
The iniquity and spiritual darkness that prevailed under the supremacy of Rome were the inevitable result of her suppression of the Scriptures; but where is to be found the cause of the widespread infidelity, the rejection of the law of God, and the consequent corruption, under the full blaze of gospel light in an age of religious freedom? Now that Satan can no longer keep the world under his control by withholding the Scriptures, he resorts to other means to accomplish the same object. To destroy faith in the Bible serves his purpose as well as to destroy the Bible itself. GC 586


Could that antireligious beast that manifested itself in France, which possessed the moral degradation of Sodom, the atheistic arrogance of Egypt, and the same rebelliousness against the WORD as demonstrated in Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified, be the reason for this departure into darkness?
The beast of Revelation 11:7 arose to destroy the Bible and all it stands for.
Satan, knowing that he had lost the fight of keeping the Bible away from the people, now moved to another plan. Destroy faith in the Bible.

The French Revolution was a drastic picture of what a society that throws out God's law of life looks like. Just because the beast was no longer in OBVIOUS full blown sight after the three and a half years, does not mean it went away. The seeds of this new form of rebellion were planted, they sent deep roots into society and they were growing.

Yes, the Bible was spread all over the earth, in the years after 1798, However:
The books of the philosophers of the Revolution also became wide spread.
Quote
"Voltaire became one of Satan's most successful agents to lead men away from God. Thousands will rise up in the judgment and charge the ruin of their souls upon the infidel Voltaire." {CG 196.3}
"Voltaire and his associates cast aside God's Word altogether, and spread everywhere the poison of infidelity." GC 282

Voltaire realized that interesting literary activity was an excellent way of spreading revolutionary ideas. So he embedded his philosophies in entertaining literature, plays and comedies. His philosophical libertinism and hedonism writings are circulating to this day, and honored for their "freedom and equality" themes.

Quote
Let believers in the truth for this time, turn away from authors that teach infidelity. Let not the works of skeptics appear on your library shelves, where your children can have access to them. Let those who have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, no longer deem it an essential feature of a good education to have a knowledge of the writings of those who deny the existence of God, and pour contempt upon his holy word. Give no place to the agents of Satan, since there is nothing by which to vindicate their doings; a clean thing cannot come out of an unclean.-- Review and Herald, Nov. 10, 1891.


1844 what all happened?
Yes, the hour of God's judgment began as Christ was brought before the ancient of Days, in the heavenly court. (Rev. 14:7. Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14 Rev. 3:5)
The door to the most Holy Place was opened and the ark of the testimony revealed the ten commandments with the fourth 7th day Sabbath was seen! (Rev. 11:19)

But Satan was working through his new atheistic beast to counter all the light that was streaming forth from heaven!

DARWIN
Wrote his first paper on evolution in 1844.
God's message -- worship Him that created heaven and earth.
Darwin -- no, the earth sort of created itself, no need to believe in or to worship a Creator.

NIETZSCHE
Born in 1844
Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche[ii] (15 October 1844 ? 25 August 1900) was a German classical scholar, philosopher, and critic of culture, who became one of the most influential of all modern thinkers. Yet, his philosophy was against God, against the Biblical account of creation, against morality and rules defining right and wrong, basically against everything Biblical.

MARXISM
1844 Karl Marx wrote: ?Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844,?
this work was written by Karl Marx that year, even though not published till later.
It contained the foundation and philosophies of Communism.

SPIRITUALISM
1844 - Spiritualism was a religious movement that gained momentum in America during the mid-1800s. It held that people could communicate with the deceased through mediums.

Was it just coincidence that all these events (and more atheistic events) happened in 1844?
Or had the world reached a deciding point.
1. God was bringing forth truth.

2. The Devil was equipping his new "beast" to counter everything God was doing.

And where are we today?
The last couple decades has seen that very beast of Rev. 11:7 coming to full maturity once more, he's not subtle anymore. The antireligion, atheistic, immorality celebrating, calling evil good, and good evil, beast.

The difference this time, will simply be a mirror image. Instead of the papal beast being set into the background, devoid of political power, in the very near future the papal beast will be restored to power.
The American beast (apostate Protestantism) will unite with the papacy, they will presume to fight against the beast from the bottomless pit. Only problem -- neither side are honoring the God of Creation or His law

And yes, history will be repeated (not prophecy, but history will be repeated)
The prophecy pointed to France, and what happened in France is a warning of what happens when God and His law are cast aside. A time of trouble even worse than what befell France.

Distinct reference is made in scripture and Spirit of prophecy to that abnormal national experience known as ?The French Revolution.? (Revelation 11:7-10. And the Great Controversy) The time when the principles of antireligion and infidelity were given full opportunity to bud and blossom and bear fruit, that all the world might judge of their nature; when people were left to show to what deeds of darkness the carnal heart would lead, unrestrained by any principles of righteousness and truth. It was noted in prophecy and history as a warning to us living today.
And the descriptions given in inspiration, are such to indicate earth's population will fall to a large extent, if not wholly, under the same principles of evil.
It is a serious question, today, whether the final stages of this condition is not already appearing before our eyes, and if we may be standing on the very threshold to see wherein ?history repeats itself? in its worst forms.

Quote
"The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent . . . . Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. {FLB 215.5
}

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