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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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Re: It has been done!
#20423
12/30/05 08:41 PM
12/30/05 08:41 PM
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Colin that guarantee is a conditional guarantee. It is conditional on us following Jesus. I really fail to see how the words "His people" makes any difference. He will save His people (just His followers) or He will save His people (the entire human race) if certain conditions are met, the end is the same. Again the guarantee is, as the rest of the Bible shows, conditional on us accepting the offer of Salvation by surrendering to His will and having a relationship with the Creator. Of course I've already answered this several times....
Redfog
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Re: It has been done!
#20424
12/30/05 08:46 PM
12/30/05 08:46 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Darius: SS, then I must conclude that you do not accept Matt. 1:21 for what it says. You do not believe it was a guarantee and you do not believe that identification of "his people" did not depend on completion of His mission. I want to know how you feel about what the Bible teaches. It is obvious you know what modern men believe. I say, "let God be true and every man a liar."
Ok, that was too much. I accept the BIBLE for what it says. Now, before His mission was completed, His people were the Jews.....also know as Israel, the children of Abraham. So, in keeping with this discussion, wouldn't that mean that only the Jews (Israel) would be saved? Now, to go a step furthur, He taught us to follow Him. In doing so, we join Him, making us His people.
I also know that anyone can take one text out of the bible and base their beliefs on just those few words. Many times I have heard the story of a man who wanted to know God's direction in his life. He read that "Judas hung himself" then skipped a few books and read "go and do likewise." So, he hung himself. My point? Twisting what the Bible says can be very easy. Mayn people do it today to make it fit their own ideals. Now, do I believe that Jesus' gift was to everyone? Absolutely. Do I believe everyone will BE SAVED? No, I do not. And my belief isd not based on what MAN says but on what GOD says, in HIS WORD, the BIBLE.
Now, what do you want to know as far as what I believe the Bible teaches? I'd like to know what YOU believe, as you have YET to answer THAT question. But, I suspect that I will be reprimanded and told to "stay on topic"
Incidently, my name is NOT "SS". It is either Steph, Stephanie, Stephanie Suranyi, or Mrs. Suranyi. I don't abbreviate your name as "D" so I would appreciate it if you would use one of the above when posting to me.
Colin, Actually, they HAVE answered the question. I read it myself...more than once. Richard said that it IS given to EVERYONE, just like Matt. 1:21 says. However, he expanded on that by stating that not everyone will TAKE it. What we are wondering is if Darius is suggesting that EVERYONE will be saved, whether they accept the gift of salvation or not? Because if he is, I would sincerely like to know how he came to that conclusion. That is what we are getting at. It would be so much easier if we knew what prompted Darius to start this thread in the first place. He wants to know what everyone else believes, we want to know what he believes. We tell him, he doesn't tell us. Richard and Mountain Man were not being evasive. They were answering the question to the best of their knowledge, based on what Darius gave them.
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Re: It has been done!
#20425
12/30/05 09:58 PM
12/30/05 09:58 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Steph, only you know why you are so defensive and I will leave you to deal with it. What I believe has nothing to do with what the text says. I could believe that God is a monkey; that would not change what the text says. All it would do is make a statement about my relationship to the text. Asking me what I believe is not a contribution to this discussion. Rather, it is a smokescreen being sent up to avoid dealing with the text. Why is there such fear?
I will tell you this, though. Beliefs are temporary things; hypotheses to be tested. The Shut Door used to be an Adventist belief/hypothesis until the data proved it to be more false than true. At that point it was discarded. This is why the evidence is more important than any belief.
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Re: It has been done!
#20426
12/30/05 10:08 PM
12/30/05 10:08 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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First God chose Abraham, then Abraham proved worthy of Gods choise. What does this tell us about God?
/Thomas
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Re: It has been done!
#20427
12/30/05 10:22 PM
12/30/05 10:22 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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We should first state what God chose Abraham for. I am a citizen of the United States but I have not been chosen to be an official ambassador of the United States. However, ambassadors have no more rights as citizens than I do. Abraham was not chosen to be one of God's people. He always was. He was chosen as an ambassador; an appointment of grace.
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Re: It has been done!
#20428
12/30/05 11:53 PM
12/30/05 11:53 PM
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Hi Guys, I have been following this thread since yesterday! I think though that maybe we have all missed the point of this text very slightly. For me the point of this text comes down to what happened at the crucifixion. When Jesus died was it for the whole world as Paul would have us believe in 1 Tim 4:10 or did he just die for those who would ultimately accept him? If the latter be true then how can the 'heathen who by nature do the things of God' be saved? - for without the gift of Grace (see below my point about the cross) then how can God be a fair God? My understanding of the text in question combined with the cross of Christ is that at Christ's death the whole world was covered by the grace of God, thereby saving the whole world, in Him. When we come into contact with the gospel, and thereby Christ Himself, we can take one of two ways the one way is to accept him whereby we receive Justification by faith, and also Sanctification . The other option is to remove ourselves completely from the free gift and 'shove it back in His face', thereby changing our destiny back to that of going to hell .
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Re: It has been done!
#20429
12/31/05 12:31 AM
12/31/05 12:31 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Darius, your view of salvation contradicts the SOP quotes I posted above. As such, your view violates forum rules. The idea that Jesus has saved everyone is unbiblical. The only people who will be saved are those who accept Jesus as their personal Saviour AND who obey His law.
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Re: It has been done!
#20430
12/31/05 12:35 AM
12/31/05 12:35 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Colin and Debbie, if Jesus saved everyone on the cross, from the foundation of the world, how, then, can anyone be lost?
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Re: It has been done!
#20431
12/31/05 02:20 AM
12/31/05 02:20 AM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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To be lost one must reject what God has done in Christ, after - ideally - one has heard the true gospel message... there are fakes out there...
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Re: It has been done!
#20432
12/31/05 12:09 PM
12/31/05 12:09 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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I think MM does not understand what it means to be lost and what it means to be saved. There will always be confusion (Babylon) where there is a lack of understanding.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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