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Re: It has been done! #20453
01/04/06 03:03 AM
01/04/06 03:03 AM
D
D R  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 719
East Coast Canada
Is there not a text that deals with the parental responsibility of raising a Child in the ways of the Lord, and if the Child dies then there is accountability placed from the Parents rearing??? Is this Biblical, SDA, Catholic, a dream I had (not prophetic of course [Smile] But seriously what does scripture state on this?? and if it does'nt cover this, then SO WHAT! Jesus is JUST and TRUE, just as MM has stated throughout his posts! Darius, take a chill pill budy, your a little anxious with your posts lately. Why is it that we try to put the will of Jesus in a box and rationalize everything???

Re: It has been done! #20454
01/04/06 11:35 AM
01/04/06 11:35 AM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Snowman, you should ask yourself why you would never advise me to take a chill pill if I had been trumpeting one of your pet theories. Unbelievable. Do you ask the preachers who keep telling people how sinful they are to take a chill pill? Check yourself, my dear brother/sister.

Re: It has been done! #20455
01/04/06 02:37 PM
01/04/06 02:37 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Snowman, check out these Bible and SOP quotes:

CG 561-566
When God Asks, "Where Are the Children?"-- Parents who have neglected their God-given responsibilities must meet that neglect in the judgment. The Lord will then inquire, "Where are the children that I gave you to train for Me? Why are they not at My right hand?" Many parents will then see that unwise love blinded their eyes to their children's faults and left those children to develop deformed characters unfit for heaven. Others will see that they did not give their children time and attention, love and tenderness; their own neglect of duty made the children what they are. {CG 561.1}

Parents, if you lose your opportunity, God pity you; for in the day of judgment God will say, "What have you done with My flock, My beautiful flock?". . . {CG 561.2}

Suppose you should get to heaven and none of your children be there. How could you say to God, "Here am I, Lord, and the children which Thou hast given me"? Heaven marks the neglect of parents. It is recorded in the books of heaven. {CG 561.3}

Families Will Pass in Review Before God.--When parents and children meet at the final reckoning, what a scene will be presented! Thousands of children who have been slaves to appetite and debasing vice, whose lives are moral wrecks, will stand face to face with the parents who made them what they are. Who but the parents must bear this fearful responsibility? Did the Lord make these youth corrupt? Oh, no! He made them in His image, a little lower than the angels. Who, then, has done the fearful work of forming the life character? Who changed their characters so that they do not bear the impress of God and must be forever separated from His presence as too impure to have any place with the pure angels in a holy heaven? Were the sins of the parents transmitted to the children in perverted appetites and passions? And was the work completed by the pleasure-loving mother in neglecting to properly train them according to the pattern given her? All these mothers will pass in review before God just as surely as they exist. {CG 561.4}

In Heaven Is a Pictorial Record.--Let parents and children remember that day by day they are each forming a character, and that the features of this character are imprinted upon the books of heaven. God is taking pictures of His people, just as surely as an artist takes pictures of men and women, transferring the features of the face to the polished plate. What kind of picture do you wish to produce? Parents, answer the question! What kind of picture will the great Master Artist make of you in the records of heaven? . . . We must decide this now. Hereafter, when death shall come, there will be no time to straighten the crooked places in the character. {CG 562.1}

To us individually this should be a most important matter. Every day our likeness is being taken for time and for eternity. Let each one say, "I am having my likeness taken today." Ask yourself daily, hourly, "How will my words sound to the heavenly angels? Are they as apples of gold in pictures of silver, or are they like a blasting hail, wounding and bruising?" . . . {CG 562.2}

Not only our words and actions, but our thoughts, make up the picture of what we are. Then let every soul be good and do good. Let the picture made of you be one of which you will not be ashamed. Every feeling we cherish makes its impress upon the countenance. God help us to make our record in our families what we would wish it to be in the heavenly record. {CG 563.1}

Have You Been Careless?--Oh, that parents would look prayerfully and carefully after their children's eternal welfare! Let them ask themselves, Have we been careless? Have we neglected this solemn work? Have we allowed our children to become the sport of Satan's temptations? Have we not a solemn account to settle with God because we have permitted our children to use their talents, their time and influence, in working against the truth, against Christ? Have we not neglected our duty as parents and increased the number of the subjects of Satan's kingdom? {CG 563.2}

If mothers neglect to properly educate their children, their neglect is reflected back upon them again, making their burdens and perplexities harder than they would have been if they had devoted time and patient care in training their children to obedience and submission. It will pay in the end for mothers to make the formation of the characters of their children their first and highest consideration, that the thorns may not take root and yield an abundant harvest. {CG 563.3}

Children Will Condemn Unfaithful Parents.--The curse of God will surely rest upon unfaithful parents. Not only are they planting thorns which will wound them here, but they must meet their own unfaithfulness when the judgment shall sit. Many children will rise up in judgment and condemn their parents for not restraining them and charge upon them their destruction. The false sympathy and blind love of parents cause them to excuse the faults of their children and pass them by without correction, and their children are lost in consequence, and the blood of their souls will rest upon the unfaithful parents. {CG 563.4}

Children Will Pay Tribute to Faithful Parents.-- When the judgment shall sit, and the books shall be opened; when the "well done" of the great Judge is pronounced, and the crown of immortal glory is placed upon the brow of the victor, many will raise their crowns in sight of the assembled universe and, pointing to their mother, say, "She made me all I am through the grace of God. Her instruction, her prayers, have been blessed to my eternal salvation." {CG 564.1}

Results of Faithful Training Will Be Manifest.-- All who have wrought with unselfish spirit will behold the fruit of their labors. The outworking of every right principle and noble deed will be seen. Something of this we see here. But how little of the result of the world's noblest work is in this life manifest to the doer! How many toil unselfishly and unweariedly for those who pass beyond their reach and knowledge! Parents and teachers lie down in their last sleep, their lifework seeming to have been wrought in vain; they know not that their faithfulness has unsealed springs of blessing that can never cease to flow; only by faith they see the children they have trained become a benediction and an inspiration to their fellow men, and the influence repeat itself a thousandfold. . . . Men sow the seed from which, above their graves, others reap blessed harvests. They plant trees that others may eat the fruit. They are content here to know that they have set in motion agencies for good. In the hereafter the action and reaction of all these will be seen. {CG 564.2}

Parents May Bring Children With Them to Promised Land.--God has permitted light from His throne to shine all along the path of life. A pillar of cloud by day, a pillar of fire by night, is moving before us as before ancient Israel. It is the privilege of Christian parents today, as it was the privilege of God's people of old, to bring their children with them to the promised Land. {CG 565.1}

You want a household for God; you want your family for God. You want to take them up to the gates of the city and say, "Here am I, Lord, and the children that Thou hast given me." They may be men and women that have grown to manhood and womanhood, but they are your children all the same; and your educating, and your watchfulness over them have been blessed of God, till they stand as overcomers. Now you can say, "Here am I, Lord, and the children." {CG 565.2}

Broken Family Chains Will Be Relinked.--Jesus is coming, coming with clouds and great glory. A multitude of shining angels will attend Him. He will come to honor those who have loved Him and kept His commandments, and to take them to Himself. He has not forgotten them or His promise. There will be a relinking of the family chain. {CG 565.3}

Comfort for a Bereaved Mother.--You inquire in regard to your little one being saved. Christ's words are your answer: "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God." Remember the prophecy, "Thus saith the Lord: A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted. . . . Thus saith the Lord: Refrain thy voice from weeping and thine eyes from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy. And there is hope in thine end, saith the Lord, that thy children shall come
again to thine own border." {CG 565.4}

This promise is yours. You may be comforted and trust in the Lord. The Lord has often instructed me that many little ones are to be laid away before the time of trouble. We shall see our children again. We shall meet them and know them in the heavenly courts. Put your trust in the Lord, and be not afraid. {CG 566.1}

Children Will Be Borne to Mothers' Arms.--Oh, wonderful redemption! long talked of, long hoped for, contemplated with eager anticipation, but never fully understood. {CG 566.2}

The living righteous are changed "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye." At the voice of God they were glorified; now they are made immortal and with the risen saints are caught up to meet their Lord in the air. Angels "gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Little children are borne by holy angels to their mothers' arms. Friends long separated by death are united, nevermore to part, and with songs of gladness ascend together to the City of God. {CG 566.3}

Re: It has been done! #20456
01/04/06 02:40 PM
01/04/06 02:40 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Darius, the knowledge Jesus possesses now, knowledge that helps Him determine our eternal rewards, will be made manifest to all in judgment. Everyone, including the lost, will acknowledge the wisdom and justice of Jesus. Doubt and disbelief will never again rear its ugly head. Our future is bliss.

Re: It has been done! #20457
01/04/06 02:44 PM
01/04/06 02:44 PM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
MM, ignorance is bliss.

Re: It has been done! #20458
01/04/06 02:48 PM
01/04/06 02:48 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Daius, if you took the time to read the quotes I posted above you, sir, are no longer ignorant of the truth.

Re: It has been done! #20459
01/05/06 03:21 AM
01/05/06 03:21 AM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
MM, if the quotes are correct then infants are not born lost. Period.

Re: It has been done! #20460
01/04/06 05:25 PM
01/04/06 05:25 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Are you differentiating between infants and children? It would appear that Sister White does not make such critical distinctions.

CG 193-195
Early Childhood Is the Most Important Period.-- Too much importance cannot be placed on the early training of children. The lessons that the child learns during the first seven years of life have more to do with forming his character than all that it learns in future years. {CG 193.1}

From babyhood the character of the child is to be molded and fashioned in accordance with the divine plan. Virtues are to be instilled into his opening mind. {CG 193.2}

The parents' work must begin with the child in its infancy, that it may receive the right impress of character ere the world shall place its stamp on mind and heart. {CG 193.3}

The Most Susceptible Age.--It is during the first years of a child's life that his mind is most susceptible to impressions either good or evil. During these years decided progress is made in either a right direction or a wrong one. On one hand, much worthless information may be gained; on the other, much solid, valuable knowledge. The strength of intellect, the substantial knowledge, are possessions which the gold of Ophir could not buy. Their price is above gold or silver. {CG 193.4}

First Impressions Are Seldom Forgotten.--Neither infants, children, or youth should hear an impatient word from father, mother, or any member of the household; for they receive impressions very early in life, and what parents make them today, they will be tomorrow, and the next day, and the next. The first lessons impressed upon the child are seldom forgotten. . . . {CG 193.5}

The impressions made on the heart early in life are seen in after years. They may be buried, but they will seldom be obliterated. {CG 194.1}

The Foundation Is Laid in the First Three Years.-- Mothers, be sure that you properly discipline your children during the first three years of their lives. Do not allow them to form their wishes and desires. The mother must be mind for her child. The first three years is the time in which to bend the tiny twig. Mothers should understand the importance attaching to this period. It is then that the foundation is laid. {CG 194.2}

If these first lessons have been defective, as they very often are, for Christ's sake, for the sake of your children's future and eternal good, seek to repair the wrong you have done. If you have waited until your children were three years old to begin to teach them self-control and obedience, seek to do it now, even though it will be much harder. {CG 194.3}

Not So Difficult As Generally Supposed.--Much parental anxiety and grief might be saved if children were taught from their cradles that their wills were not to be made law, and their whims continually indulged. It is not so difficult as is generally supposed to teach the little child to stifle its outburst of temper and subdue its fits of passion. {CG 194.4}

Do Not Postpone This Work.--Many neglect their duty during the first years of their children's lives, thinking that when they get older, they will then be very careful to repress wrong and educate them in the right. But the very time for them to do this work is when the children are babes in their arms. It is not right for parents to pet and humor their children; neither is it right for them to abuse them. A firm, decided, straightforward course of action will be productive of the best results. {CG 194.5}

When I have called attention of parents to the wrong habits which they were encouraging in their very young children, some parents have appeared entirely indifferent; others have said with a smile, "Little darlings! I cannot bear to cross them in any way. They will do better when they get older. They will then be ashamed of these passionate outbursts. It is not best to be too particular and strict with the little ones. They will outgrow these habits of telling lies and deceiving and being indolent and selfish." A very easy way indeed for mothers to dispose of the matter, but this does not meet the will of God. {CG 195.1}

Thwart Satan's Effort to Claim Infant Children.-- Parents, you fail generally to begin your work early enough. You let Satan preoccupy the soil of the heart by putting in the first crop of seed. {CG 195.2}

You have a work to do that Satan shall not gain the control of your children and take them away from you before they are out of your arms. Mothers, you should see to it that the powers of darkness do not control your little ones. You should set your will that the enemy shall not raise his banner of darkness in your home. {CG 195.3}

Re: It has been done! #20461
01/04/06 05:37 PM
01/04/06 05:37 PM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
You are drifting. This is about your claim that we are born lost. If we are born lost then it would be a violation of law for us to be treated as if we were not lost. God is not a lawbreaker. I don't care whether you call them infants or children.

Re: It has been done! #20462
01/04/06 05:45 PM
01/04/06 05:45 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Man:
Darius, Jesus made it clear that we must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. Obviously, in the case of infants who die, who did not and could not choose to be born again, Jesus has knowledge not available to us that He relies on to determine which infants will go to heaven.


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