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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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Re: It has been done!
#20523
03/01/06 01:31 PM
03/01/06 01:31 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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I find it intriguing that many here have no problem telling the rest of Christendom they are wrong theologically but are up in arms when it is suggested that they themselves are also wrong theologically. Why is that? Shouldn't we all have an interest in approaching truth instead of merely defending our positions?
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Re: It has been done!
#20524
03/01/06 02:28 PM
03/01/06 02:28 PM
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Quote: posted by Darius| Tom, you are still arguing from hindsight. |
Um, Darius, do you mean Jeff? It was Jeff with whom you were having the “hindsight” discussion.
Quote: posted by Darius
| Go back to the discussion between the serpent and Eve. The serpent had not only eaten a fruit; he had engaged in open warfare with the Creator. But he had not died. He was still alive and well. He did not even feel sick. He is still alive. From his perspective death did not follow. You are giving the impression that he understood the process of death, which would put him in cahoots with the Creator. Think this through. |
Darius,
Can you please cite where in the scripture record it says the serpent ate the fruit?
BTW, for all practical purposes, the serpent was Satan. Satan was not naïve to what he was telling Eve. According to this latest tack you’ve taken, I find it difficult to see in it a possibility that the serpent deceived anyone. After all, the serpent was just relating his own experience, eh?
Jeff
Re: It has been done!
#20525
03/01/06 03:47 PM
03/01/06 03:47 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Jeff, Satan's goal was to claim earth as his. He wanted to be like the Most High, with territory and subjects. The Woman saw straight through the lie that was implicit in the question he first asked her. But, he never asked her to eat the fruit. The text says "she saw it was good for food." The obvious message is that she saw the serpent eat it.
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Re: It has been done!
#20526
03/01/06 06:00 PM
03/01/06 06:00 PM
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Darius, the point is, you can’t justly chastise someone for inferring something from the text that it did not explicitly state, and then go on to infer something from text that it does not explicitly state.
This conversation has turned into an incredible exhibition of insignificant side digressions from the original topic. I would like for it to get back to something meaningful. Now, if the main topic is “everyone’s wrong and you’re right”, I think that is an unproductive use of your time and mine. However, if the discussion is now on the issue of whether or not Adam/Eve rebelled against the creator, that’s a worthy discussion. But let’s all pursue it in a spirit of humility. Agreed?
Jeff
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Re: It has been done!
#20527
03/01/06 07:10 PM
03/01/06 07:10 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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I can point out that what is inferred negates the rest of the story of salvation. God rules according to law. There can be no salvation of what is not yours. If the human race had rebelled there could have been no plan of salvation for then it would be unjust not extend that plan to Lucifer. The Creator must be just.
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Re: It has been done!
#20528
03/01/06 08:11 PM
03/01/06 08:11 PM
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Quote: posted by Darius| I can point out that what is inferred negates the rest of the story of salvation. God rules according to law. There can be no salvation of what is not yours. |
I’m not really sure what you mean by that.
Quote: posted by Darius
| If the human race had rebelled there could have been no plan of salvation for then it would be unjust not extend that plan to Lucifer. The Creator must be just. |
Why would the Creator be unjust if Satan is ineligible for salvation while humans are eligible? It’s not the rebellion that makes one eligible or not. It’s the circumstances that make the difference. Satan rebelled in the full light of God. Humans were ignorant in their rebellion. Satan was fully informed.
Jeff
Re: It has been done!
#20529
03/01/06 08:59 PM
03/01/06 08:59 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Where do you get the idea from that Satan was fully informed? If he had been he would have been immediately destroyed. Check the story and you will find that he actually did nothing wrong. He did not even start the war. Many misquote the Bible and claim that he wanted to be ABOVE the Most High. Sometimes I get the impression that more lies have been told about Lucifer than he has ever told.
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Re: It has been done!
#20530
03/01/06 09:00 PM
03/01/06 09:00 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Jeff, you can't rescue that which is not yours. A rebel cannot be rescued; he has to be conquered. It is interesting that Jesus was not sent on a mission of conquest.
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Re: It has been done!
#20531
03/01/06 10:30 PM
03/01/06 10:30 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Satan was fully informed. quote:
But even as a sinner, man was in a different position from that of Satan. Lucifer in heaven had sinned in the light of God's glory. To him as to no other created being was given a revelation of God's love. Understanding the character of God, knowing His goodness, Satan chose to follow his own selfish, independent will. This choice was final. There was no more that God could do to save him. But man was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God. (DA 761, 762)
God didn't allow Satan to immdiately suffer the inevitable result of sin because had He done so, what happened to Satan would have been misunderstood, and the differences between Satan and God's forms of government would not have been seen.
quote:
At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. (that death was the inevitable result of sin -- my editing here) Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe. (DA 764)
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Re: It has been done!
#20532
03/01/06 11:30 PM
03/01/06 11:30 PM
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Quote: posted by Darius| Where do you get the idea from that Satan was fully informed? |
Did you not say yourself that Satan/Lucifer was once God’s covering cherub? Scripture speaks of Lucifer’s former position in God’s government. It is not a stretch of difficult means to infer from scripture that Satan had full knowledge of what he was doing when he rebelled. Add to that the light we get from SOP (as Tom has demonstrated) that states Lucerfer’s understanding of the matter, and we have a difficult time reconciling that with your statements.
Quote: posted by Darius
| If he had been he would have been immediately destroyed. |
This, on the other hand, is a much more difficult concept to prove. What makes your statement so?
Quote: posted by Darius
| Check the story and you will find that he actually did nothing wrong. He did not even start the war. |
Darius, are you now defending Satan? Saying that Satan did nothing wrong implies that it was God’s fault. To clarify your point, please tell who you believe is to blame for Eve eating the fruit? Is it Eve, the serpent, or God, or was it both Eve and the serpent, or Eve and God, or the serpent and God, or, perhaps were all three to blame?
Jeff
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