|
Forums118
Topics9,223
Posts196,070
Members1,325
| |
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20563
03/03/06 05:26 PM
03/03/06 05:26 PM
|
|
|
Darius by your reasoning concerning the fallibility of inspiration then everything in the Bible is suspect and subject to mans interpretation or can be discarded at will. We are already seeing this, even within the SDA church when it comes to some rejecting a literal 7 day Creation. At what point do we discard (or disregard) the Bible completely? At what point do we relegate the Creator to the trash can. At what point will we start to teach Darwin in our schools as fact? We need to be on guard that we do not head down a slippery slope that can only lead to the rejection of Christianity. To trust in the Bible defies logic, to trust in God defies logic. Either the whole Bible is inspired or it is not.
Redfog
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20564
03/03/06 07:22 PM
03/03/06 07:22 PM
|
OP
Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
|
|
Redfog, the Creator is not infallible and inspiration is neither fallible nor infallible. It is simply an instrument. However, we know that all men are fallible. [This last sentence indicates my intention to say in the first that "the Creator is nof fallible."]
If I were you I'd be more concerned when people begin to doubt reality. Remember, for a long time the church believed in the false teaching of geocentricism. Are you upset someone was bold enough to challenge it?
[ March 03, 2006, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Darius ]
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20565
03/03/06 07:32 PM
03/03/06 07:32 PM
|
|
|
quote:
Jeff, I hope you can accept that what occurred could only have occurred if Eve had not heard it from God that she was not to eat of the tree.
No, I don’t accept it because either could be true and still be true to the text. That Eve added the “or touch it” when there is no record in Genesis of God actually saying it, establishes no proof God had never spoken to her about it directly. In any event, we have the clear word of SOP that states that the angels had also given both Adam and Eve warning about the issue, that Eve should have been fully informed with sufficient truth to be able to withstand the temptation and (yes) lies of Satan. A lie is stating something with the intention that the person would believe something that is actually untrue. The “something” can be technically true, but stated in a way that leads one to believe something untrue. We’re not interested in “technical” truth; we’re interested in functional truth. Satan managed to convince Eve to eat the fruit by convincing her that the benefits of eating the fruit outweighed any risk. In that he lied. Eve is now dead because of her choice.
On the issue of inspiration, the logical conclusion of what you’re saying is that the Bible is no more inspired than any document written by anyone (except you excluded women for some reason). What then is the basis for assuming that Christianity is any truer than Islam, or Buddhism, or atheism?
So whose fault was it? Eve’s, Adam’s, God’s, Satan’s, a combination, or no one’s?
Jeff
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20566
03/03/06 08:03 PM
03/03/06 08:03 PM
|
OP
Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
|
|
Jeff, if Eve had heard it from God she would be in a worse state of rebellion than Lucifer. The Creator would have been unjust to do what the Bible declares He has done. In fact, He could not legally do what the Bible says He did because the entire human race would have been severed from Him. He could no longer call us "my people."
I have not concerned myself with who is to blame because Jesus has already rectified the situation. I am concerned with who is to blame for us still being in this condition.
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20567
03/03/06 08:41 PM
03/03/06 08:41 PM
|
|
|
Darius, saying that does not make it so. Lucifer held office in God’s heavenly government. You can argue how much light he had when he rebelled, but certainly you must see that he knew orders of magnitude more than Eve about the truth. But that Eve disobeyed the word of God is clear, and is clearly rebellion, though not nearly to the same degree as Lucifer. Eve still had to take it on faith that what God said was true. Lucifer KNEW what God said was true and still rebelled. That is what makes Lucifer ineligible for grace: he rebelled against God to His face.
As for blame, ok, actually that will do if you could tell me who you think is to blame for us still being in this condition. I see that as essentially the same thing. I’m still trying to get to the nuts and bolts of what you’re saying.
Jeff
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20568
03/03/06 08:49 PM
03/03/06 08:49 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Darius:
if Eve had heard it from God she would be in a worse state of rebellion than Lucifer. The Creator would have been unjust to do what the Bible declares He has done. In fact, He could not legally do what the Bible says He did because the entire human race would have been severed from Him. He could no longer call us "my people."
Here we find why God's grace is the centerpiece of the plan of salvation.
God said, "Eat it and die." Satan countered, "Eat it and live." Eve chose the wrong one to believe. Through her choice, and Adam's, the race had chosen death.
It is true that the rebellious race could no longer be truly God's people. Man was severed from God, and death was his unavoidable lot.
God's gracious solution was to create a new race. He came as the Second Adam. All who will die to self, who will humble themselves, who will reject the rebellion of the First Adam, are new creatures; they are raised to newness of life. These are His people; they are saved from their sins.
Those who do not die to self will die with self in the Lake of Fire. They are not God's people, and have no part in the promise of Matthew 1:21.
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20569
03/03/06 08:58 PM
03/03/06 08:58 PM
|
OP
Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
|
|
Jeff, why we are still here is not the same as who got us in this position.
Please provide a stroke by stroke account of how you think Lucifer fell into rebellion.
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20570
03/03/06 09:00 PM
03/03/06 09:00 PM
|
OP
Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
|
|
Asygo, you have created an exchange that is not supported by the facts. By Moses' account Lucifer never asked Eve to eat of the tree. Where do you get this "Eat and live?"
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20571
03/03/06 09:20 PM
03/03/06 09:20 PM
|
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
|
|
quote:
Redfog, the Creator is not infallible.
Really?
|
|
|
Re: It has been done!
#20572
03/03/06 09:37 PM
03/03/06 09:37 PM
|
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Darius:
Asygo, you have created an exchange that is not supported by the facts. By Moses' account Lucifer never asked Eve to eat of the tree. Where do you get this "Eat and live?"
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:4-5)
|
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|
